Did we just see the demise of Obamacare?

[Guest TankerHC]

Just heard on the radio that Obama has changed the law again. This time to "Allow" Insurance companies to continue issuing policies that do not comply with Obamacare, for an "additional" two years.

 

That takes them past the Presidential elections in 2016. Lets see if most of the people can be fooled most of the time. And, of course, it only applies to insurance policies, the other 1200 rules and regulations still apply. So, he will continue to help destroy the US Medical System, but you can keep your policy, at least until Billary is re-elected.

 

 

[R_Bert]

The insurance companies have already told him it would not matter.  They are not stupid.  The policy structure has already changed, and no corp in their right mind would run on two sets of rules & books for 18 or 24 months of benefit.  (they would just have to re-do work already performed)

Edited March 5, 2014 by R_Bert

[Smokin45]

Yikes, how many changes to the law does a president get?   :shrug:  As many as he wants. :sick:  

[Guest semiautots]

Illegal acts should be punished.  It's time to impeach Obama.

[Guest TankerHC]

The insurance companies have already told him it would not matter.  They are not stupid.  The policy structure has already changed, and no corp in their right mind would run on two sets of rules & books for 18 or 24 months of benefit.  (they would just have to re-do work already performed)

 

 

Yep

 

I should say "Yep, but will it be enough to fool the masses?". He does have the Press, the right hand of the Devil. 

Edited March 5, 2014 by TankerHC

[Guest TankerHC]

Yikes, how many changes to the law does a president get?   :shrug:  As many as he wants. :sick:  

 

President? Only thing this guys missing is his white suit, Sam Browne belt and big fake Medals. (No offense to Captain Sam Browne) 

Edited March 5, 2014 by TankerHC

[MacGyver]

Two years puts it to spring of 2016. edited noting that it's two years past the current extension, making it come due October 1, 2016

 

I'm going to look at it on the positive side of things.  If there's one thing Obama did a remarkable job of in 2007-2008 it was the dismantlement of the Clinton machine.  Further, in making her Secretary of State, he ran her so hard for his first few years in office that she looked like she had been hit by a train.  I'm going to look at this as one final Obama "gift" to Hilary.  Let her explain this thing and try to own it as she seeks the White House.

 

Couple in the documents just released just released from the Clinton White House, and she's got a real tar baby on her hands.  Of particular note is this one on keeping your doctor - remember that this is from 1994:

 

 

 

"We have a line on p. 10 that says 'You'll pick the health plan and doctor of your choice.' This sounds great and I know that it's just what people want to hear. But can we get away with it? Isn't the whole thrust of our health plan to steer people toward cheaper, HMO-style providers? It's one thing to say we'll preserve your option to pick the doctor of your choice (recognizing that this will cost more), it's quite another to appear to promise the nation that everyone will get to pick the doctor of his or her choice. And that's exactly what this line does. I am very worried about getting skewered or over-promising here on something we know full well we won't deliver."

 

The ostensible purpose of the delay was to ease the burden on Democrats in November.  I expect it's not going to do much good, but Obama has to try something.  If the GOP takes the Senate in November then they can really start pushing back with more than just useless gestures.

 

Interesting times we live in.

[Volzfan]

I sell health insurance policies every day that do not conform to the ACA mandates. I can sell them cheap enough to justify the $95/1% fines for not having a govt approved plan and give customers a much better plan. The people this doesn't benefit are the sick people who are uninsurable and need the ACA plans that don't underwrite their policies any longer. The others that think they are getting a deal are the ones who get subsidies. Well guess what? yes they get a plan for free or cheap but when they need something covered they still have a $6k deductible to meet the ACA plans are no win for everyone!

[Guest TankerHC]

Two years puts it to spring of 2016.

 

I'm going to look at it on the positive side of things.  If there's one thing Obama did a remarkable job of in 2007-2008 it was the dismantlement of the Clinton machine.  Further, in making her Secretary of State, he ran her so hard for his first few years in office that she looked like she had been hit by a train.  I'm going to look at this as one final Obama "gift" to Hilary.  Let her explain this thing and try to own it as she seeks the White House.

 

Couple in the documents just released just released from the Clinton White House, and she's got a real tar baby on her hands.  Of particular note is this one on keeping your doctor - remember that this is from 1994:

 

 

 

 

The ostensible purpose of the delay was to ease the burden on Democrats in November.  I expect it's not going to do much good, but Obama has to try something.  If the GOP takes the Senate in November then they can really start pushing back with more than just useless gestures.

 

Interesting times we live in.

 

It isnt 2 years, it is an additional 2 years. One year since this past December, and an additional two years, which puts it at December 2016. But you are right about that Hillary thing, I was thinking the same thing. How in the heck is she going to overcome that? 

 

The only way is if they can get the voters to forget about it until after the election. And that is clearly the intent. 

Edited March 5, 2014 by TankerHC

[MacGyver]

It isnt 2 years, it is an additional 2 years. One year since this past December, and an additional two years, which puts it at December 2016. 

Ahh.  That does make it interesting indeed. 

 

The fact that they think they can hide this and not get caught is almost comical.  November should prove interesting.  And, that should make the run up to 2016 even crazier than it's almost certain to be.

[RobertNashville]

Obamacare is the law of the land...our last chance to eliminate it (and it was a small chance) evaporated with Obummer's reelection and with the cave-in of the Republican establishment. By the time enough legislators get elected that might have the balls to actually take on the issue of Obamacare it will be so established that, like Medicare, Medicaid, SS and all the other entitlements NO ONE WILL TOUCH IT.

 

The best we can hope for at this point is that there are changes made that will make it more easy to swallow.

 

Of course, in my opinion, our economy is going to collapse before that happens anyway which will make Obamacare and all the other mammoth entitlement programs moot as they sink under their own weight of debt and worthless money.

 

This "change" (as have been all the others) is all about trying to get Democrats elected/reelected.

Edited March 5, 2014 by RobertNashville

[MacGyver]

It isnt 2 years, it is an additional 2 years. One year since this past December, and an additional two years, which puts it at December 2016. But you are right about that Hillary thing, I was thinking the same thing. How in the heck is she going to overcome that? 

 

The only way is if they can get the voters to forget about it until after the election. And that is clearly the intent. 

covers policies through October 1, 2016. 

[Guest TankerHC]

covers policies through October 1, 2016. 

 

Hmmm, cant trust the news for any damn thing. 

 

Close enough you think? Close enough so that by the time it kicks back in we will be close enough to election day that the voters will be tied up with other issues. 

 

They wont even see it coming until it's too late.

[MacGyver]

Hmmm, cant trust the news for any damn thing. 

 

Close enough you think? Close enough so that by the time it kicks back in we will be close enough to election day that the voters will be tied up with other issues. 

 

They wont even see it coming until it's too late.

39 days between October 1 and November 8, 2016.  Those are already long.  Irrespective of issues that may come up between now and then, I figure this will dominate the conversation.  Figure letters will start going out 60-90 days before October 1.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Medicare, Medicaid, SS and all the other entitlements

Since when is Medicare, Medicaid, SS an entitlement? It is not an entitlement because we all paid into it. Welfare, on the other hand, is an entitlement because those who receive it did not pay for it.

Pretty sure we all paid into it so we could have a retirement check later. I would have much rather had that money to invest towards retirement than give it to the government. Social Security IS our retirement that WE paid for so it is not an entitlement.

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name="Dolomite_supafly" post="1120747" timestamp="1394070104"]Since when is Medicare, Medicaid, SS an entitlement? It is not an entitlement because we all paid into it. Welfare, on the other hand, is an entitlement because those who receive it did not pay for it. Pretty sure we all paid into it so we could have a retirement check later. I would have much rather had that money to invest towards retirement than give it to the government. Social Security IS our retirement that WE paid for so it is not an entitlement.[/quote] Your definitions are backwards.

[Rowdy]

Since when is Medicare, Medicaid, SS an entitlement? It is not an entitlement because we all paid into it. Welfare, on the other hand, is an entitlement because those who receive it did not pay for it.
Pretty sure we all paid into it so we could have a retirement check later. I would have much rather had that money to invest towards retirement than give it to the government. Social Security IS our retirement that WE paid for so it is not an entitlement.

They really are entitlements. You regularly pay a social security TAX. It goes into the general fund to pay current SS receipients, not into your individual SS account. You merely have a promise that you too will get a payment at retirement time.

My dad, who is gone now, collected almost $49,000 more in social security payments than he paid in; that is definitely an entitlement.

[kieefer]

IF and when some republicans with balls get control of this madness I believe the only thing they will be able to do this late in the screwing is to make minor changes. It would have to be pretty radical legislation to return things back to pre-dictator mode.

So NO, we hard-working-tax-paying-responsible-moral people are screwed as always.

[Guest TankerHC]

They really are entitlements. You regularly pay a social security TAX. It goes into the general fund to pay current SS receipients, not into your individual SS account. You merely have a promise that you too will get a payment at retirement time.

My dad, who is gone now, collected almost $49,000 more in social security payments than he paid in; that is definitely an entitlement.

 

How long did he work? Did he calculate in interest if he would have been able to invest that money? Did he count the rate of inflation over his work period vs how much his money actually grew? Which was zero. How about the drop in the value of the dollar vs the day he received his first check and started paying in? There is ZERO in the General Fund for Social Security. Social Security holds 5 trillion in Federal Bonds (Unfunded liabilities) or as they are often called "IOU's from Congress". 

 

I doubt if the people who invested in Madoff's scheme would have known what he was doing beforehand, they would have still invested, yet that is what every single American taxpayer does every single day. 

[ncldwell]

beware the might of the pen and the phone....

[Rowdy]

How long did he work? Did he calculate in interest if he would have been able to invest that money? Did he count the rate of inflation over his work period vs how much his money actually grew? Which was zero. How about the drop in the value of the dollar vs the day he received his first check and started paying in? There is ZERO in the General Fund for Social Security. Social Security holds 5 trillion in Federal Bonds (Unfunded liabilities) or as they are often called "IOU's from Congress". 
 
I doubt if the people who invested in Madoff's scheme would have known what he was doing beforehand, they would have still invested, yet that is what every single American taxpayer does every single day.

I agree. It's a Ponzi scheme that will collapse, probably sooner than later.

[kieefer]

I agree. It's a Ponzi scheme that will collapse, probably sooner than later.

 

SS is a ponzi scheme and it ain't collapsed yet because they will keep taxing us. They are wasting so much of our money we can't even comprehend it.

[Hershmeister]

Strangely the obamacare taxes haven't been delayed. Whazzup with that.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Because inflation is intentionally built-in to the system, NOBODY EXCEPT ZILLIONAIRES will have a retirement unless their savings at least track inflation.

If you invested in stocks, bonds, beany babies, whatever, one would be very sad if the investment didn't output more than the input, at least in non-inflation-adjusted figures.

Am making no claim that SS is sustainable, or well designed, but it shares basic problems with any other method of saving for a rainy day. If there were no inflation, then one could just save 10 percent of income every year, stuff the dollars in a coffee can, and then in the doddering years, live for one year, for each decade that one had saved. Or longer if one were to scale back the spending in retirement.

But given the built-in inflation, SS or any other scheme has to pay back more non-inflation-adjusted dollars than were paid in.

SSA must employ some purt good bean-counters, smarter than the politicians. I added my lifetime SS contributions, inflation adjusted, and then calculated how long I'd have to live to get my money back, at retirement ages 62, 65, 70. The monthly payments are higher the longer you wait, but the longer you work the more SS taxes you pay.

It turned out that I'd have to live to about 80 years regardless of the retirement age, to break even and get back every dollar in SS tax (inflation adjusted). That also turns out to be about the average life expectancy of folks my age. So the bean counters have it calculated fairly well. The guy with an average lifespan gets his money back. The guy who dies sooner, loses money. The guy who dies later, makes a profit, collecting the money lost by the fellers who croaked early.

Which is about the same way that insurance company annuities work.

The SS is backed by gov bonds that pay interest. Of course it is all vaporware assets backed by future taxes. But that is the same as all gov bonds. I'll be OK with them cheating me out of the SS, if they also default on all the other gov bonds, which are significant holdings in most private retirement plans, bank savings plans, corporate buffers, and fat cats' fortunes.

Just default everybody the same and I'll be fine with it. But if they default SS bonds, but keep paying banks, foreign soverign funds, corporations and fat cats-- Well I won't be a very happy camper.

[RobertNashville]

Since when is Medicare, Medicaid, SS an entitlement? It is not an entitlement because we all paid into it. Welfare, on the other hand, is an entitlement because those who receive it did not pay for it.

Pretty sure we all paid into it so we could have a retirement check later. I would have much rather had that money to invest towards retirement than give it to the government. Social Security IS our retirement that WE paid for so it is not an entitlement.

As a matter of philosophy I completely agree with you...as a practical matter; these programs are not sulfa-sustaining and pay out more in benefits than the recipients pay in - the only reason we still get the benefits of these programs is because the government is unwilling to admit it they are broke.

 

The real tragedy of SS is not how much we get out of it or even how much we paid in but the amount of money it robs us of. A couple of years ago and went back and figured out how much money I have paid into SS since I started working at around 14 and had I been able to invest that money in even an investment of even just average return I'd have in excess of $2M in my own retirement account that I actually own...that I can actually pass on to my family when I'm gone...add in the employer's share (which is really our money as well) and the multiplication effect is enough to make you go insane once you realize how much the government has taken from us.

Edited March 6, 2014 by RobertNashville