Russia invades Crimea ?

[K191145]

Interesting that three days ago the Ukranians were saying that Putin wanted to take Kiev and first thing that I see on the news today is Kerry is concerned that Putin wants to conduct a "surge" and move more widely into the Ukraine. No, our guys conducted a surge in the name of peace against terrorists, this isnt a "surge", this is an invasion, there is a difference. Why is the foreign press reporting 10s of thousands of Troops and Armored Divisions mustering up on the Border and the US Press is not. That isn't going to be a "surge",  those are "follow on" forces. 

 

Remember what Obama said when Romney stated in one of their debates that we need to have a strong military because we need to be able to counter any future Russian aggression (Or words to that effect since I cant recall exactly), but Obama laughed it off, got his big dumb grin and cracked a joke. Guess he isn't joking now, Putin has made it pretty clear, Obama doesn't matter. 

 

It never fails, every time we have weak leadership, there ends up being a major aggressor, every time we replace the weak leadership with strong leadership, we have to fight or contain that agressor. Under the drawdown every American tank was removed from Germany, 27 were put back last month for training purposes. Id bet today Obama has just learned what a POMCUS site is. 

 

Unilateral Nuclear disarmament, drawing down the Troop levels to WWII levels and pre WWII if the sequester isn't handled, attempted demoralization of our military, removing all of our Armored forces from Europe and deciding that the best "NEW and CHEAP" option would be light Armored wheeled vehicles, drawing down to possibly 9 carriers, enemies in our West, East and South, a major belligerent China threatening the US and Japan, and North Korea with Nukes threatening Japan, Iran on the border of our Territorial waters, Iran and Israel threatening to attack each other, Terrorist groups growing, not shrinking,  the Russians invading the Ukraine and Obama having acquiesced to Putin before the last election making him look like a dolt. 

 

Right now America is weak. Ill say it again, Obama is the new Chamberlain and he has the globe on the brink of Economic and Military disaster. 

 

Just thinking about some recent history, weak leadership vs strong leadership. Carter was POTUS in 1979 when Russia invaded Afganistan, Carter was POTUS when Iranian islamic radicals took over and took our embassy staff hostage only to be strangly released when Reagan was inagurated. Reagan was tough against the soviets, never backed down against their leaders and eventually the soviet government collapsed and WARSAW pact countries gained their independence, Germany was re-united. All without directly going to war with Russia. Now we have a weaker leader than Carter and it's obvious that Russia is on a mission to bring back the old soviet empire.

Probably wont have anymore Americans in space for awhile since we don't have any way to get them there and bring them back without begging for a ride from the Russians.

[sigmtnman]

Going broke fighting in Afghanistan was a big factor in the collapse of the soviet government.

[Garufa]

Going broke fighting in Afghanistan was a big factor in the collapse of the soviet government.

 

Exactly.  Afghanistan (and Iraq) has not been kind to our Treasury either.

[Peace]

Never go to war with a country that is willing to be more brutal with its own citizens than your soldiers can be with their soldiers.  

 

Napoleon learned the hard way, and ... thankfully, ... but mysteriously, Hitler did the same thing.

 

To defeat Russia is to win a game of economic chess.   The same rules will apply to China if the need arises.

 

Vizzini was hilariously and deeply correct... we cannot win a land war in Asia, period.  

[GlockSpock]

Never go to war with a country that is willing to be more brutal with its own citizens than your soldiers can be with their soldiers. Napoleon learned the hard way, and ... thankfully, ... but mysteriously, Hitler did the same thing. To defeat Russia is to win a game of economic chess. The same rules will apply to China if the need arises. Vizzini was hilariously and deeply correct... we cannot win a land war in Asia, period.

The flip side of that is that our civilian population is more heavily armed than that of China/Ukraine/Russia, or at least I think that to be the case. Thus it would be very costly for them to enter a ground war with us on our turf. That's why everyone has to worry about insane people and ICBM's. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited March 5, 2014 by CZ9MM

[DaveTN]

A ground war between superpowers is not even an option.
We will stand by and watch as Putin does whatever he likes.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

What really gripes my ass is how we catch border crossers and feed them then gently put them on a bus and drive them home. If we shot them climbing out of the river we would not have this problem.

Democrats need those future voters.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

A ground war between superpowers is not even an option.
We will stand by and watch as Putin does whatever he likes.

I sure as hell hope  so. That is not our fight  and anyone who makes Obama look bad can't be all bad

[Guest TankerHC]

Putin today told Obama to go pound sand. Threatened to crash the US economy. Putins economic advisor says that Russia will retaliate against sanctions by becoming completely independent of the US and the US Dollar. And he can do it. He and the oil shieks have been arguing for a change to the global currency for 5 years. Putins econonic adsivor states that Riusia will inform their US debtors that they will no longer pay any debts back to US financial institutions, which will cause the US economy to crash.

 

Many countries hold as much US debt as China, especially Japan. Russia holds enough with that announcement to cause a disaster if they carry it out. Thank that useless POS in the White House. 

 

BTW, there wont be any sanctions. The EMF has stated they will not support the US against Russia. They arent stupid. 

 

So fellow Americans, how does it feel to be "Contained"?

Edited March 5, 2014 by TankerHC

[sigmtnman]

... The EMF ...

 

 

Is the the electronic music foundation or the Etheopian media forum?

 

 

 

So fellow Americans, how does it feel to be "Contained"?

 

We have been free range americans for so long, who can tell?

Edited March 5, 2014 by sigmtnman

[Mike.357]

Russia just fired a test ICBM today. Yes, they filed the pertinent notice as required by SALT, but given the timing,  still has to be seen as a symbolic shot across the bow to every country on earth that opposes them on this latest tack.

 

- OS

 

 

CNN made a point to make sure this was well known long before they fired.  Coincidence?|

[Chucktshoes]

CNN made a point to make sure this was well known long before they fired.  Coincidence?|

I think not.

[TMF]

CNN made a point to make sure this was well known long before they fired.  Coincidence?|

 

I watched "tingle up my leg" on MSNBC yesterday, and his whole show was centered around attacking anyone who has criticized Obama over his handling of the situation, and justifying/minimizing Putin's actions.  If I didn't know any better I'd think that he gets paid in rubles.

[Troutburger]

Putin inspires a sense of national pride for his people. Bho, no so much.

[Guest TankerHC]

Well  now, IMHO, they are taking a hell of a gamble. They are going to try to "Contain" (Dont you just love that word "Contain", reminds people of the late 40,s 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's all over again), Russia by moving aircraft into the area, strengthening Fighter wings that are already in former Soviet satellites. And Kerry wants monitors on the ground in the Ukraine. When have monitors ever accomplished anything unless backed up by Tanks, Infantry and Aircraft? Monitors in The Congo, Libya, Iraq, Bosnia, and a ton of other places haven't accomplished much at all. 

 

Talking about help from our Allies, and from the WH "Our patience is wearing thin". From the looks of everything, the POTUS is trying to do everything possible to save face. Comparing Russia to Iran saying "It worked for Iran". Well Russia is not Iran. And Putin is not a Mullah or a figurehead leader. 

 

I see that Putin has added seizing US assets and blocking freedom of movement to breaking away from the US dollar and no longer paying any US debt to his threat of economic retaliation. 

 

Why the hell did WE allow it to get to the point that a former Communist has the power to do the economic damage he is threatening. (Meaning, he COULD actually do it). Between the Chinese and the Russians, if they so choose, this Country could be economically wrecked. And we allowed it to happen. I don't know how many times I have heard "Yes, the Chinese could, but they wont because our economies are so intertwined". BS, when you hold the upper hand, there are a LOT of things you can do. When you hold no cards there isnt JS you can do. And it's playing out right now. 

[bersaguy]

I say let Russia have the Ukraine and let them take on the added cost of keeping the country up. The old USSR went broke trying to support both their military, their space race and trying to keep all the satellite countries they conquered fed and under control. Let them do it again. As long as they stay out of America's business and out of our country let them have all of Asia. We have proven we don't need imported oil or natural gas for our country to operate just fine. We don't need any products made in Russia and for that fact China either. We can bring our industries back on line right here in America and begin putting Americans back to work. First thing we do is get rid of the EPA and all their stupid regulations. Bring NASA back on line, quit wasting billions of dollars exploring Mars and start putting that money back into the economy right here. We can jump start it in the mid-terms by putting the right people in the Senate and House and taking away the Pen and Phone power from the Oval office and Lame Duck the Prez his last two years....................jmho

[Links2k]

Thanks for bringing up Iraq as it does pose the question of where do we have standing to criticize Russia for its actions? So it invaded a smaller, weaker nation on a very thin manufactured pretext? Why does that sound so familiar to me for some reason? 
 
The U..S has zero credibility on this subject as long as we reserve the right to lob missiles from drones into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, etc. and meddle in the internal political affairs of these and other countries. The only difference between Russia and the U.S. right now is that Russia doesn't have an ineffectual pussy in the executive office.

Chuck, you aren't supposed to point that out. It's Un'Merican, but true. Hypocrites.

[Links2k]

Exactly.  Afghanistan (and Iraq) has not been kind to our Treasury either.

That was one of Attackers goals.

[Mike.357]

I watched "tingle up my leg" on MSNBC yesterday, and his whole show was centered around attacking anyone who has criticized Obama over his handling of the situation, and justifying/minimizing Putin's actions.  If I didn't know any better I'd think that he gets paid in rubles.

 

 

I try to watch MSNBC just to keep up with what the other side is doing.  That news (LOL) network does not even pretend to be balanced or fair in their reporting.  It is straight up an Obama fanboy network.  Not to say Fox is that much better for the republican side, but it is not as blatant as what MSNBC does.  They are really hard to stomach.

[Lumber_Jack]

This move could be an economic nut kick to Russia in the end. They lost $60billion when the markets opened yesterday. Plus sanctions could really hurt them as they import a vast majority of their products. I think the "right move" is to stay out, let the UN watch for war crimes and let the Ruble collapse to nothing. In the mean time we need to get someone with balls in the White House. You don't have to use the big stick very often if people are scared you might. Right now Obama can't even find the stick.

[R_Bert]

This move could be an economic nut kick to Russia in the end. They lost $60billion when the markets opened yesterday. Plus sanctions could really hurt them as they import a vast majority of their products. I think the "right move" is to stay out, let the UN watch for war crimes and let the Ruble collapse to nothing. In the mean time we need to get someone with balls in the White House. You don't have to use the big stick very often if people are scared you might. Right now Obama can't even find the stick.

but he has indeed located the noodle.

[Guest TankerHC]

I say let Russia have the Ukraine and let them take on the added cost of keeping the country up. The old USSR went broke trying to support both their military, their space race and trying to keep all the satellite countries they conquered fed and under control. Let them do it again. As long as they stay out of America's business and out of our country let them have all of Asia. We have proven we don't need imported oil or natural gas for our country to operate just fine. We don't need any products made in Russia and for that fact China either. We can bring our industries back on line right here in America and begin putting Americans back to work. First thing we do is get rid of the EPA and all their stupid regulations. Bring NASA back on line, quit wasting billions of dollars exploring Mars and start putting that money back into the economy right here. We can jump start it in the mid-terms by putting the right people in the Senate and House and taking away the Pen and Phone power from the Oval office and Lame Duck the Prez his last two years....................jmho

 

The difference today is that Russia is still sending people into space. We cannot afford to. They are building up their Military,  we cant afford to. China is soon to put a man on the Moon. We have to rely on the Russians to get us into Space. While the Politicians of the United States are arguing over how much or little to spend on the welfare state, arguing over about whether or not to violate our Constitutional rights, the rest of the globe is moving forward technologically. There isnt a piece of tech today that wasnt invented by Americans. Digital Photography wasnt invented by the Japanese, that was Kodak, Computers were not invented by Asians but Americans (Unless you consider the Abacus a Computer or babbage's Machine a Computer, but of course it took MIT students to actually make it work) that was the US Navy, Televisions were not invented by Asians either, Americans, The Internet (Not the Web) was invented by Americans, but there would be no web if there were no Internet. The Russians beat us into Space, so we landed on the Moon, they arrived at the Moon so we beat them to Mars. Today we cant even get off the ground. 

 

"Let them have it" TO ME, everyone is entitled to their opinion, seems to go with everyone and everything today except US Citizens. Its a defeatist attitude I never thought I would see. And I am not directing this to you bersa, but to the post, because it is the general attitude of many many Americans. If we can let Russia have anything they want, then screw it, let them destroy the US economy,and while we are at it, lets agree with the left, open our Borders and let Mexico have Texas, New Mexico and Arizona back. 

 

We need to ignore Obama and his Pen and Phone, elect LEADERS and let the world know who REALLY is the big boy on the block with the stick. 

 

Call me a Hawk if you want to, but to that the only response I would give is.....DAMN RIGHT. Playing with these third world countries, "Negotiating" and pussy footing around while telegraphing our self induced weakness is costing us more than if we simply put them in their place. 

 

The Nation with the big stick always wins in the end. Right now, Putin is wielding a big stick. This Ukraine thing isnt even the gigantic thing they are making it out to be, it isnt the first time Russia has invaded someone, in the not so long ago past there was Hungary and Czechoslovakia. The difference this time is instead of a Leader, or Leaders, we have no one. There is a leadership vacuum in the White House, nothing there except an empty suit. 

 

Putin has stated he will AND CAN, severely damage if not wreck the US economy without firing a shot, but just to let everyone know he can fire a shot if he needs to, he launches an ICBM test. He has countered everything that this Administration has threatened. he has built a coalition where our allies said "No thanks".  THAT is what leaders do. 

Edited March 5, 2014 by TankerHC

[Caster]

A part of me is quite jealous of Russia right now.  Despite the fact I hate communism and their restrictive way of life, they have a real leader. Putin has balls.  Putin speaks, people listen.  Putin wants something done….it gets done.  IF we had us a red-blooded freedom loving american like that, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.  

 

This whole debacle is disturbing.  When the wall fell everyone thought the bear was done for.  I look for the return of the Soviets to mark the end of us.  Scoff but it ain't like it's beyond the realm of possibility.  They for damn sure have the capability.  

[Oh Shoot]

... We don't need any products made in Russia ...

 

Yeah we do ... the ammo and guns. Especially the ammo.

 

and for that fact China either. ....

 

Hell, the US would be crippled if all Chinese goods were curtailed suddenly. Likely crash our economy; only a small segment of our society could afford to purchase US replacement goods, which in many cases simply aren't currently available either.

 

Would be nice if we could get Chinese arms and ammo too.

 

- OS

[monkeylizard]

Yep. Wal-Mart didn't become China-R-Us overnight and it would take a significant amount of time to bring that production back on shore. Some things we really don't want brought on-shore. Some things are really dirty to manufacture and there's no good way to avoid that in some cases. Ideally, we could choose not to consume those products, but that's not happening so I'd rather a river in China get polluted than a river in the U.S.