Russia invades Crimea ?

[TMF]

Not that I mind an opportunity to bash Obama, but what is he supposed to do in this situation? If he talks too tough we have to worry about getting involved in a conflict we have no business in, if he sits back and shakes his finger we appear too weak and embolden the Russians. What does right look like here? Edited March 4, 2014 by TMF

[ncldwell]

Foreign policy is a multi-touch point process.  This administration is behind the 8-ball because of previous mis-steps that currently put the U.S. in a position of weakness.  Given the history here, the current admin doesn't have a lot to stand upon.  China supports the Russian action.  China is already pursuing their own annexation albeit in a much more diplomatic fashion.  There is trouble on the horizon as China and Russia play against us.  And the fact that Putin is still playing Cold War politics is very concerning...especially given the Afghanistan connections.

[Wingshooter]

Not that I mind an opportunity to bash Obama, but what is he supposed to do in this situation? If he talks too tough we have to worry about getting involved in a conflict we have no business in, if he sits back and shakes his finger we appear too weak and embolden the Russians. What does right look like here?

That's a tough one for sure, and it's too bad we didn't elect someone that's qualified for the tough job. Coalition maybe?? Negotiate with something else they might want (trade deal maybe?).

Of course Obama probably figures he can just give Putin the gift of an iPod and all will be well. Maybe he'll invite him over for a beer summit :/ Edited March 4, 2014 by Batman

[TMF]

Foreign policy is a multi-touch point process.  This administration is behind the 8-ball because of previous mis-steps that currently put the U.S. in a position of weakness.  Given the history here, the current admin doesn't have a lot to stand upon.  China supports the Russian action.  China is already pursuing their own annexation albeit in a much more diplomatic fashion.  There is trouble on the horizon as China and Russia play against us.  And the fact that Putin is still playing Cold War politics is very concerning...especially given the Afghanistan connections.

 

I think you're right in regard to Obama's history as a weakling when it comes to foreign policy has created the stage for this, but at this point I don't see anything that he could do that anyone would interpret as right.  It looks like there is an inevitable cold war coming.

[Guest TankerHC]

This is not the Cold War all over again although it may seem like it. I also remember the Cold War and was part of it. 6 years in the Fulda Gap and another 5 running Patrols on the  East German and Czechoslovakian Border in the Border Cav. This is not 'detente" it is in increase not a decrease in tensions and the ethnic Russian Crimeans are not siding with the Russians. I have been following the conversations on various Forums of the Ukranians and the Ukranian Military is fully called up, the Reserves have reported and 1000's of non military ETHNIC RUSSIAN's have volunteered to fight the Russians. According to the Ukranians they have decided they will not surrender to Putin who has now given them the ultimatum of unconditional surrender or complete destruction by TODAY. Also according to the Ukrainians and Crimeans Putin is feeding the Western press lies about the Ethnic Russians (Who will be fighting the Russians) and protecting them, they are not joining the Russians they want to kick them out.

 

By the time everyone wakes up (Literally, this morning) if Putin is to be believed, there will be a full scale war going on in Crimea, or soon thereafter. The Ukrainians believe that Putin will try to take Kiev. And Kerry is headed there? For what? Putin acts, he doesnt make idle threats. Kerry is a talking douchebag who will go over and "plead". 

 

The 5 global issues of time magazine after the Syrian debacle told the whole story. 4 of those issues showing how Putin is the worlds global leader, the US issue showing a football player on the cover and a story about Football.

 

This Administration has been disastrous for the entire world, not just us.  

Edited March 4, 2014 by TankerHC

[TMF]

This is not the Cold War all over again although it may seem like it. I also remember the Cold War and was part of it. 6 years in the Fulda Gap and another 5 running Patrols on the East German and Czechoslovakian Border in the Border Cav. This is not 'detente" it is in increase not a decrease in tensions and the ethnic Russian Crimeans are not siding with the Russians. I have been following the conversations on various Forums of the Ukranians and the Ukranian Military is fully called up, the Reserves have reported and 1000's of non military ETHNIC RUSSIAN's have volunteered to fight the Russians. According to the Ukranians they have decided they will not surrender to Putin who has now given them the ultimatum of unconditional surrender or complete destruction by TODAY. Also according to the Ukrainians and Crimeans Putin is feeding the Western press lies about the Ethnic Russians (Who will be fighting the Russians) and protecting them, they are not joining the Russians they want to kick them out.

By the time everyone wakes up (Literally, this morning) if Putin is to be believed, there will be a full scale war going on in Crimea, or soon thereafter. The Ukrainians believe that Putin will try to take Kiev. And Kerry is headed there? For what? Putin acts, he doesnt make idle threats. Kerry is a talking douchebag who will go over and "plead".

The 5 global issues of time magazine after the Syrian debacle told the whole story. 4 of those issues showing how Putin is the worlds global leader, the US issue showing a football player on the cover and a story about Football.

This Administration has been disastrous for the entire world, not just us.

Yep, and this is just gearing us up for a new generation of Joes flipping off Ivans from one side of the border to the other.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[K191145]

Not that I mind an opportunity to bash Obama, but what is he supposed to do in this situation? If he talks too tough we have to worry about getting involved in a conflict we have no business in, if he sits back and shakes his finger we appear too weak and embolden the Russians. What does right look like here?

 

Where's Ronnie when we need him?

Of course we can't and shouldn't do anything as far as military action goes BUT, we can strenghten our military instead of weakening it like Bobo is doing. Start talking plans to place missle defense systems in Poland and Eastern Europe, hurry and approve the keystone pipeline, drill in ANWAR and flood the market with cheaper oil, work on the development of stealth ICBM's, send and let everybody know we have nuclear ballistic missle subs in the sea of Japan and Indian Ocean close to N.K. and Iran. Let Iran and the world know that if Iran ever nukes Isreal the first targets of nuclear response is any and all Iranian oil fields including nuclear power plants and all main cities, make a 50 to 1 resolution, 50 nukes for every 1. Russia puts a base in Cuba, put a halt to the destruction of nuclear warheads and modernize the delivery systems(stealth).

Of course nothing like that will happen as long as Bobo's in charge.

[frankmako]

looks like a bunch of people on the right were right.  we will do nothing.  we got our own problems and do not need to get into other nations problems.  they do not have anything that we need or want.  even if they did we would not take it, we would do nation building like a bunch of fools.  how is that nation building working out in iraq.  we should took the oil and put them back living into tents. 

[Guest TankerHC]

Where's Ronnie when we need him?

Of course we can't and shouldn't do anything as far as military action goes BUT, we can strenghten our military instead of weakening it like Bobo is doing. Start talking plans to place missle defense systems in Poland and Eastern Europe, hurry and approve the keystone pipeline, drill in ANWAR and flood the market with cheaper oil, work on the development of stealth ICBM's, send and let everybody know we have nuclear ballistic missle subs in the sea of Japan and Indian Ocean close to N.K. and Iran. Let Iran and the world know that if Iran ever nukes Isreal the first targets of nuclear response is any and all Iranian oil fields including nuclear power plants and all main cities, make a 50 to 1 resolution, 50 nukes for every 1. Russia puts a base in Cuba, put a halt to the destruction of nuclear warheads and modernize the delivery systems(stealth).

Of course nothing like that will happen as long as Bobo's in charge.

 

Interesting that three days ago the Ukranians were saying that Putin wanted to take Kiev and first thing that I see on the news today is Kerry is concerned that Putin wants to conduct a "surge" and move more widely into the Ukraine. No, our guys conducted a surge in the name of peace against terrorists, this isnt a "surge", this is an invasion, there is a difference. Why is the foreign press reporting 10s of thousands of Troops and Armored Divisions mustering up on the Border and the US Press is not. That isn't going to be a "surge",  those are "follow on" forces. 

 

Remember what Obama said when Romney stated in one of their debates that we need to have a strong military because we need to be able to counter any future Russian aggression (Or words to that effect since I cant recall exactly), but Obama laughed it off, got his big dumb grin and cracked a joke. Guess he isn't joking now, Putin has made it pretty clear, Obama doesn't matter. 

 

It never fails, every time we have weak leadership, there ends up being a major aggressor, every time we replace the weak leadership with strong leadership, we have to fight or contain that agressor. Under the drawdown every American tank was removed from Germany, 27 were put back last month for training purposes. Id bet today Obama has just learned what a POMCUS site is. 

 

Unilateral Nuclear disarmament, drawing down the Troop levels to WWII levels and pre WWII if the sequester isn't handled, attempted demoralization of our military, removing all of our Armored forces from Europe and deciding that the best "NEW and CHEAP" option would be light Armored wheeled vehicles, drawing down to possibly 9 carriers, enemies in our West, East and South, a major belligerent China threatening the US and Japan, and North Korea with Nukes threatening Japan, Iran on the border of our Territorial waters, Iran and Israel threatening to attack each other, Terrorist groups growing, not shrinking,  the Russians invading the Ukraine and Obama having acquiesced to Putin before the last election making him look like a dolt. 

 

Right now America is weak. Ill say it again, Obama is the new Chamberlain and he has the globe on the brink of Economic and Military disaster. 

Edited March 4, 2014 by TankerHC

[Chucktshoes]

looks like a bunch of people on the right were right.  we will do nothing.  we got our own problems and do not need to get into other nations problems.  they do not have anything that we need or want.  even if they did we would not take it, we would do nation building like a bunch of fools.  how is that nation building working out in iraq.  we should took the oil and put them back living into tents. 

 

Thanks for bringing up Iraq as it does pose the question of where do we have standing to criticize Russia for its actions? So it invaded a smaller, weaker nation on a very thin manufactured pretext? Why does that sound so familiar to me for some reason? 

 

The U..S has zero credibility on this subject as long as we reserve the right to lob missiles from drones into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, etc. and meddle in the internal political affairs of these and other countries. The only difference between Russia and the U.S. right now is that Russia doesn't have an ineffectual pussy in the executive office. 

[Guest TankerHC]

looks like a bunch of people on the right were right.  we will do nothing.  we got our own problems and do not need to get into other nations problems.  they do not have anything that we need or want.  even if they did we would not take it, we would do nation building like a bunch of fools.  how is that nation building working out in iraq.  we should took the oil and put them back living into tents. 

 

In the past, millions of Americans have come to regret those very words. Many can be found buried in military cemeteries all over Europe. 

[frankmako]

so there goes the catch 22 tankerHC.  so we go in now and get many american killed for what?  or do we build our military back up.  get our nuclear weapons back up.  get strong leaders back in.  we stopped them once and we can do it again.  we just got to have leaders that understand history and has the back bone to do what has to be done.  the cold war was never over, just put on hold. 

[Guest TankerHC]

so there goes the catch 22 tankerHC.  so we go in now and get many american killed for what?  or do we build our military back up.  get our nuclear weapons back up.  get strong leaders back in.  we stopped them once and we can do it again.  we just got to have leaders that understand history and has the back bone to do what has to be done.  the cold war was never over, just put on hold. 

 

no catch 22, no need to get a lot of people killed. But a lot of people are going to be killed just the same due to our weakness. Everything after the "For what". The fact is that isnt the way it happened in WWI, WWII and in fact over the last 450 years when it comes to Europe. But we (The US) keep repeating history, so in the end, a lot of people are going to die anyway.

 

you may (Or may not) remember this saying. "no more Task Force Smith's". Well some poor soldier(s) is soon to be caught up in a Task Force Obama.  

[reed1285]

sorry if this has been covered in this thread already, I didnt see it on page 5.

 

Didnt the Ukraine president ASK Russia to come over to help restore order? It's not really invading if your asked to come right? 

 

Edited to add: just copy and pasted this from CNN

 

The Russian envoy read a letter from Yanukovych at the U.N. meeting, describing Ukraine as a country "on the brink of civil war," plagued by "chaos and anarchy."

"People are being persecuted for language and political reasons," the letter said. "So in this regard, I would call on the President of Russia, Mr. Putin, asking him to use the armed forces of the Russian Federation to establish legitimacy, peace, law and order, stability and defending the people of Ukraine."

Edited March 4, 2014 by reed1285

[frankmako]

it is not going to end well no matter the route the current leaders go.  

[sigmtnman]

If we can't get the commies out of our country, what makes anyone think we can remove them from where they have thrived for hundreds of years.

 

We should be vigilant and poised to defend ourselves, but a land war in Asia the soviet block  is suicide.

Edited March 4, 2014 by sigmtnman

[monkeylizard]

[sigmtnman]

 

Incontheivable!

[Guest TankerHC]

sorry if this has been covered in this thread already, I didnt see it on page 5.

 

Didnt the Ukraine president ASK Russia to come over to help restore order? It's not really invading if your asked to come right? 

 

Edited to add: just copy and pasted this from CNN

 

The Russian envoy read a letter from Yanukovych at the U.N. meeting, describing Ukraine as a country "on the brink of civil war," plagued by "chaos and anarchy."

"People are being persecuted for language and political reasons," the letter said. "So in this regard, I would call on the President of Russia, Mr. Putin, asking him to use the armed forces of the Russian Federation to establish legitimacy, peace, law and order, stability and defending the people of Ukraine."

 

No.

[Guest TankerHC]

So I heard Putin say they were trying to prevent a Constitutional Coup. For a minute thought he was talking about the White House, my bad. 

 

(JK)

[reed1285]

No.

 

Would it be that surprising if he did? Thats kind of how this whole thing got started back in November isnt it? When Yanukovych favored Russian ties over EU

 

So the letter they read from is fake?

Edited March 4, 2014 by reed1285

[Guest copperhead_1911]

Obama: MR PUTIN, DONT DO THAT!!! OR I WILL BE FORCED TO ASK YOU TO DONT DO THAT AGAIN!!

Is  it just me or is Obama the least respected president we ever had? I know many say its because of race, but that is getting old. I don't think if Allen West were president putin would pull that kind of crap.

 

The irony is Obama talks about the sovereignty of Ukraine yet he has virtually ceded parts of our nation to mexico and continues to allow illegal invaders from there and also uses illegal executive orders to avoid deport them. This is pathetic pandering for votes at its finest.

[Oh Shoot]

Russia just fired a test ICBM today. Yes, they filed the pertinent notice as required by SALT, but given the timing,  still has to be seen as a symbolic shot across the bow to every country on earth that opposes them on this latest tack.

 

- OS

Edited March 4, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[monkeylizard]

Duck 'N Cover

[Fourtyfive]

What really gripes my ass is how we catch border crossers and feed them then gently put them on a bus and drive them home. If we shot them climbing out of the river we would not have this problem.