I disagree with "loaded magazines doesn't weaken the spring"

[Daniel]

Funny you mention half a mag... I counted rounds left in my mag after my first one. 14.

[daddyo]

Just the same, I'll keep mine loaded. My life and the lives of my family are worth the price of replacement springs.

[Luke E.]

 This thread has gotten a ways from the OP but just a thought on Erik spring issues, What type of shotgun was it? I have seen a few folks have problems just like you when leaving a standard hunting shotgun fully loaded (3 of them Winchesters and one Mossberg). In each of these 4 cases they had removed the mag limiting plug to load a couple extra shells in. When the limiting plug is removed it's duties are then shifted over to the spring which limits the number of added rounds once coil bound. Like others have mentioned coil bind can damage the spring even though it hasn't been cycled an abnormal number of times. This may have not had a single thing to do with it but it seemed the only reasonable excuse other than poor quality or defective spring. I'm not a spring engineer by any stretch and most of my spring experience has been with motorcycle suspension where for the most part the old "a spring constantly cycled will sack out faster than on under constant, consistent load" adage holds true. I guess this is due to modern motorcycle suspension being designed to have a hard stop before coil bind.

[hipower]

Just the same, I'll keep mine loaded. My life and the lives of my family are worth the price of replacement springs.

My carry gun and my house guns all have extra LOADED mags available and close at hand at all times. And a fair amount of loaded mags in the safe as well. Not every mag I own is loaded, but hopefully enough to not have to reload in an emergency.

[graycrait]

Fascinating how often this subject comes up on nearly every gun related forum, almost as often as discussions about lubricants.     I'm going with the notion that springs have cyclic rates and mags rarely, if ever, pass that cyclic rate limit.  However, if the spring is poorly made, or subject to corrosion or damage by grit, mag body or follower damage, or compressed beyond design parameters then it may fail.  That is why I keep several for each firearm requiring mags. The only handun springs I ever remember having to replace that weren't buggered up during some non-firing process come to mind is trigger, slide lock and recoil springs.  I have yet to personally wear out a magazine spring and don't operate where I routinely drop them in crap and can't clean them. I am a lucky man.

 

http://www.sbeprecision.com/Documents/Gun%20Spring%20FAQ.pdf

 

http://www.yarchive.net/gun/spring_fatigue.html

Edited March 22, 2014 by graycrait

[enfield]

You can't argue with entrenched opinion.

[DaveTN]

As I've been saying for years, follow the manufacturer's recommendation.  They should know about the quality of the spring and the system it functions in.  If the spring will become a problem during normal use, including keeping it compressed for years, they should know that and tell you.  If they don't have a recommendation, then I'd keep the springs compressed and learn for myself.  I'd rather have them fail in the safe than in combat.  Failure is not a bad thing in itself.  It only become a problem when it happens at the wrong time.  Springs are cheap.

 
 

I see that science can't compete with anecdotes, so I'll be on my way, again.  :shake:

 
 

:shake: :surrender:

 
 

You can't argue with entrenched opinion.

Why try? Those that think springs are damaged by compression will either not do that or replace them at some interval. Those that don’t believe it will keep their mags loaded. Will someone rely on a mag that has been loaded for 10, 20 or 30 years?… doubtful

[mikegideon]

 
 
 
 
 
 
Why try? Those that think springs are damaged by compression will either not do that or replace them at some interval. Those that don’t believe it will keep their mags loaded. Will someone rely on a mag that has been loaded for 10, 20 or 30 years?… doubtful

 

I would rely on them. My Model 59 mags were loaded for most of 30+ years, and the springs are as stiff as new S&W mags. The gun wasn't shot much over all those years, so there was very little true wear. I ran 100 rounds thru one of those mags when I took the range test for my permit. The gun was flawless.

[DaveTN]

I would rely on them. My Model 59 mags were loaded for most of 30+ years, and the springs are as stiff as new S&W mags. The gun wasn't shot much over all those years, so there was very little true wear. I ran 100 rounds thru one of those mags when I took the range test for my permit. The gun was flawless.

That’s because it is a Smith & Wesson. Everyone knows Smith & Wesson springs are made of unknownium and to exacting standards.

[enfield]

That's why Glock uses S&W springs.

[mikegideon]

That's why Glock uses S&W springs.

 

Gaston was designing penis implants (or some other plastic trinkets) when my 59 was built. Good call on the springs.

[No_0ne]

I never knew the term for compressing the spring more than it should have been. They say you should learn something new every day.

Now I know the correct term for it. Coil Bind.

 

And if you put a new cam in your engine that has a lobe profile that results in coil bind of the original valve springs, you will learn another new term: rebuilt engine ....

[enfield]

If you believe the springs will fail due to compression and replace them regularly, you'll probably never have a spring failure.

 

If you believe that a high number of cycles makes springs fail, you won't replace your springs and you'll probably never have a spring failure.

 

It doesn't matter which side of the issue you believe, the result is the same.

 

Can we stop arguing about it?

[whitewolf001]

If you believe the springs will fail due to compression and replace them regularly, you'll probably never have a spring failure.

 

If you believe that a high number of cycles makes springs fail, you won't replace your springs and you'll probably never have a spring failure.

 

It doesn't matter which side of the issue you believe, the result is the same.

 

Can we stop arguing about it?

 

[Peace]

It's almost certainly true that the cases won't. However, the bimetal bullets that are generally part and parcel with steel cased ammo will most definitely accelerate barrel wear.

 

Extractor wear and whatnot from steel cases is anecdotal only, but the barrel wear from the bimetal bullets has been empirically demonstrated.

 

 

- OS

 

While steel cases may not directly hurt your rifle, there is experiential evidence to suggest that in some chambers, during powder burn, the case does not expand to fill the chamber, and residue will blow back into the chamber.  Enough of this with steel ammo... then if one switches back to brass case (which does expand), and whammo... stuck case.  It's just a pain at the range, but if one ever really needed their rifle, that would be... unfortunate.

[Erik88]

No one has explained how my spring on my shotgun shrank to half it's orginal side despite being shot 3-4 times the last 30 years. I don't disagree that springs can also weaking by being compressed over and over but I do disagree that you can leave a spring compressed for years without it being an issue. Which is the common thought.

 

New gun owners ask quite often "can I leave my magazines loaded" and the response from everyone is that it doesn't hurt anything. I would disagree.

 

That is the only point I was trying to make.

[Capbyrd]

No one has explained how my spring on my shotgun shrank to half it's orginal side despite being shot 3-4 times the last 30 years. I don't disagree that springs can also weaking by being compressed over and over but I do disagree that you can leave a spring compressed for years without it being an issue. Which is the common thought.

 

New gun owners ask quite often "can I leave my magazines loaded" and the response from everyone is that it doesn't hurt anything. I would disagree.

 

That is the only point I was trying to make.

 

 

They did answer that.  Improper heat treat or cheap materials.  

[mikegideon]

They did answer that.  Improper heat treat or cheap materials.  

 

But, don't all magazine springs come off the same spool of wire? :)

[enfield]

Yes, at the S&W factory.

[DaveTN]

Yes, at the S&W factory.

Not his, he got one that was sent out while they were testing some Chinaman springs.

[MiddTennTaco]

No one has explained how my spring on my shotgun shrank to half it's orginal side despite being shot 3-4 times the last 30 years. I don't disagree that springs can also weaking by being compressed over and over but I do disagree that you can leave a spring compressed for years without it being an issue. Which is the common thought.

New gun owners ask quite often "can I leave my magazines loaded" and the response from everyone is that it doesn't hurt anything. I would disagree.

That is the only point I was trying to make.

Shitty spring - several people have explained that already.

[tnguy]

No one has explained how my spring on my shotgun shrank to half it's orginal side despite being shot 3-4 times the last 30 years. I don't disagree that springs can also weaking by being compressed over and over but I do disagree that you can leave a spring compressed for years without it being an issue. Which is the common thought.

 

New gun owners ask quite often "can I leave my magazines loaded" and the response from everyone is that it doesn't hurt anything. I would disagree.

 

That is the only point I was trying to make.

 

Sounds like that was not a spring but a curly bit of wire.

[Jonnin]

No one has explained how my spring on my shotgun shrank to half it's orginal side despite being shot 3-4 times the last 30 years. I don't disagree that springs can also weaking by being compressed over and over but I do disagree that you can leave a spring compressed for years without it being an issue. Which is the common thought.

 

New gun owners ask quite often "can I leave my magazines loaded" and the response from everyone is that it doesn't hurt anything. I would disagree.

 

That is the only point I was trying to make.

 

Its not hard to explain.  If i make a 'spring' for your shotgun by rolling a piece of string around a bar, it will not work.  Why? Because string does not make a good spring; it does not have the property of returning to a shape, it is limp.  If you use the wrong material, or if the material is somehow polluted or stressed or flawed, or the process producing it is flawed, or whatever, the spring will fail.  If you over-compress or over-extend a spring, it will fail.   If you make it of the proper material and use it within its functional operational parameters, it will keep on springing for a long time.  Eventually, all springs do wear out, but it should take a long life of many compress/decompress cycles to do it.  Anything else indicates the spring was either poorly made, the wrong spring for the job, or it was abused. 

 

So, some engineer messed up when picking the spring for that gun, or you got a defective one, unless you pulled it out and messed it up without telling us.  Period.

[Oh Shoot]

While steel cases may not directly hurt your rifle, there is experiential evidence to suggest that in some chambers, during powder burn, the case does not expand to fill the chamber, and residue will blow back into the chamber.  Enough of this with steel ammo... then if one switches back to brass case (which does expand), and whammo... stuck case.  It's just a pain at the range, but if one ever really needed their rifle, that would be... unfortunate.

 

Yep, well known. I've done it myself. On the other hand, I've had steel cases stick too.

 

Never had one that a light mortar wouldn't clear in AR, or the Garand Stomp in Mini 14. Did tear right through a steel rim in the Mini once, but was able to pry it with pocket knife blade or screwdriver tip at the scene, can't remember.

 

- OS

Edited March 29, 2014 by Oh Shoot