Gun Rights, Can we make a difference for Tennessee?

[Oh Shoot]

I would say not much, but some. But if that's the case, why are they not getting their hcp now?

 

They who? Your tirade was about "idiots I don't care to see carry a gun". Having a couple extra benjamins to spare doesn't cure that.

 

I rather doubt there are all that many folks who are both legally able and really want to carry a gun on their person that don't have a permit in TN, though I'm sure the money deters some. Probably more who pack one in their car without a permit, but just guessing on that.

 

Point is though, that in states that allow unregulated carry, there's no data to indicate that creates more public firearm accidents than in shall issue permit regulated ones.

 

- OS

Edited February 26, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Guest Lowbuster]

ti·rade
ˈtīˌrād,ˌtīˈrād/
noun
1.
a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation.

I'm not angry. No exclamation points, no caps lock, and my " accusations" are from my experience with dealing with the public.
I didn't mean to tick anyone off. Just my opinion.

[Oh Shoot]

ti·rade
ˈtīˌrād,ˌtīˈrād/
noun
1.
a long, angry speech of criticism or accusation.

I'm not angry. No exclamation points, no caps lock, and my " accusations" are from my experience with dealing with the public.
I didn't mean to tick anyone off. Just my opinion.

 

Okay, so I tend toward hyperbole -- I am only probing the logic of it, your opinion raises no ire in me whatsoever.

 

- OS

[Guest Lowbuster]

Okay, so I tend toward hyperbole -- I am only probing the logic of it, your opinion raises no ire in me whatsoever.

It's all good, I like your posts and I need to be kept straight.

- OS

[TMF]

I would say not much, but some. But if that's the case, why are they not getting their hcp now?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the state just north of us I believe anyone can carry so long as it isn't concealed, so anyone who is 18 years or older that is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm can legally carry with no permit. Where is the blood in the streets?


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[RC3]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the state just north of us I believe anyone can carry so long as it isn't concealed, so anyone who is 18 years or older that is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm can legally carry with no permit. Where is the blood in the streets?


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The sink holes sucks all the blood

[ncldwell]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the state just north of us I believe anyone can carry so long as it isn't concealed, so anyone who is 18 years or older that is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm can legally carry with no permit. Where is the blood in the streets?


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I believe it's the same in Mississippi.  Open carry is legal state wide for those 18 and over.

 

Mississippi State Constitution: Article 3, Section 12 ~ The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in the aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name="ncldwell" post="1117065" timestamp="1393441203"]I believe it's the same in Mississippi. Open carry is legal state wide for those 18 and over. [color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=verdanna][size=1][b]Mississippi State Constitution: Article 3, Section 12 ~ [/b][/size][/font][/color][color=rgb(51,51,51)][font=Georgia][size=4]The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in the aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.[/size][/font][/color][/quote] It is now that the state legislature clarified that a holster does not count as partially concealing.

[RobertNashville]

They who? Your tirade was about "idiots I don't care to see carry a gun". Having a couple extra benjamins to spare doesn't cure that.

 

I rather doubt there are all that many folks who are both legally able and really want to carry a gun on their person that don't have a permit in TN, though I'm sure the money deters some. Probably more who pack one in their car without a permit, but just guessing on that.

 

Point is though, that in states that allow unregulated carry, there's no data to indicate that creates more public firearm accidents than in shall issue permit regulated ones.

 

- OS

I would tend to agree with you Oh Shoot (which is usually wise :) ) but I will openly admit that just "anyone" being able to pack heat does cause me some trepidation. I base that on experience with some that I've seen going through the required training.

 

Aside from the class I took when I first applied for my HCP I've had the opportunity to go through several others (sometimes to be with friends who were going for their HCP and sometimes because for some training establishments, they require that you go through their basic training first (which is often their HCP training class) before you can go to their more advanced classes...so, I've had many "HCP" training classes!

 

Anyway...I've seen some folks in those classes that truly knew absolutely NOTHING about firearms...not even the most basic things and I have to say, the thought of some of those folks carrying a firearm with out even the basic training the HCP process requires is a sobering thought for me. I'm not saying that they and we shouldn't be able to carry anywhere, anytime...I'm not saying that the HCP training is great...I'm not arguing with the statistics (of no blood in the street) from "constitutional carry" but I wish there were some way to require a modicum of training  before anyone was allowed to legally carry a firearm on their person....does that make me soft on the constitution?  I don't know???

[RobertNashville]

Its been referred to the Senate Delayed Bills Committee as of Feb 13.  The makeup of that committee:  Ron Ramsey (Chair), Jim Kyle and Mark Norris.  This committee is "Responsible for initial consideration of resolutions calling for joint conventions and study committees and late filed bills and resolutions."  The fat lady has sung.

 

Think about it for a minute.  The House sponsor won his seat by 4 votes in the last election.  In the House, its been scheduled in Coley's Civ Just Subcmte for March 5 - his self-proclaimed "Gun Bill Day" - where it will have to compete with several other firearms bills, including the parks bill, for precious time in a one-to-two-hour session that's bound to be contentious to begin with.  Dollars to donuts it will be dispensed as "the sponsor takes it off notice" within the first ten minutes of the meeting.  The bill languished for weeks without a Senate sponsor, and was sent to the dead letter office in the Senate the day after it was finally picked up by Campfield (who, bless his heart, just can't seem to find his ass with both hands most days). 

 

But Dennis walks away with a talking point for November, where he can proudly proclaim that "he tried"...like hell he did...this was never intended to be anything more thatn a carefully orchestrated publicity stunt to save another RINOs ass.

I'm surprised that you haven't been chided you for being so negative and not getting in the spirit of the thread!  ;)

[GKar]

I'm surprised that you haven't been chided you for being so negative and not getting in the spirit of the thread!  ;)

 

Every now and then its fun to be the pisser instead of the pissee...

[GKar]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the state just north of us I believe anyone can carry so long as it isn't concealed, so anyone who is 18 years or older that is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm can legally carry with no permit. Where is the blood in the streets?


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I live in Bristol - so the "state just north of us" is literally only 300 yards from my house.  And you are correct about the legality of non-concealed carry there.  I made this same argument to our mayor during the uproar over TN's restaurant carry law in 2009 - we were standing on the TN side of State Street, and I pointed to an alcohol-serving restaurant across the street in VA and asked him just what it was about TN citizens that made us unable to live incident-free under the same rules that those less than 30 yards from us could?

[RC3]

I live in Bristol - so the "state just north of us" is literally only 300 yards from my house.  And you are correct about the legality of non-concealed carry there.  I made this same argument to our mayor during the uproar over TN's restaurant carry law in 2009 - we were standing on the TN side of State Street, and I pointed to an alcohol-serving restaurant across the street in VA and asked him just what it was about TN citizens that made us unable to live incident-free under the same rules that those less than 30 yards from us could?

What was his reply?

[GKar]

At that particular moment, nothing.  Not too much later in the conversation, he informed me that the Second Amendment was as outdated as slavery and women's suffrage.  Later, in public session while championing Bristol's opt-out of parks carry, he proclaimed that he was a gun owner, hunter and Second Amendment supporter - but that a handgun had only one purpose, and that was to kill.  Fortunately, the citizens of Bristol finally saw fit to can his ass in the last elections, and the current iteration of council overturned the op-out in Dec 2013.  I saw him in a restaurant just a few days after that vote, and if looks coulda killed...well, I wouldn't be writing this.

[RobertNashville]

At that particular moment, nothing.  Not too much later in the conversation, he informed me that the Second Amendment was as outdated as slavery and women's suffrage.  Later, in public session while championing Bristol's opt-out of parks carry, he proclaimed that he was a gun owner, hunter and Second Amendment supporter...

Wouldn't it have been nice to have had an audio or video recording of his first statement to you to play it during the public session right after he made the second statement! ;)

[Worriedman]

JayC and I did our part.  We have the heavy lifting done, all we need now is the bill on his desk.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ6ml6bRJJE&edit=vd

Edited March 1, 2014 by Worriedman

[RobertNashville]

JayC and I did our part.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ6ml6bRJJE&edit=vd

I was there that night...I wanted to believe it when he said it then...I rather doubt he would do it now and of course; his henchmen (and henchwoman) are not going to let the legislation get to his desk anyway so the point it moot.

[Worriedman]

Now Robert, Dave seems to have a plan. 

I have recorded the Governor affirming he will sign the bill, and have in other threads, provided contact information for those who hold the future of the bill in hand.  If they will but show how amenable the Gov. is to this line of thinking, surely there are forces that can convince our Supermajority of conservative, Republican, 2nd Amendment loving legislators to step back from this 144 year old travesty against our Rights.

[RobertNashville]

Now Robert, Dave seems to have a plan. 

I have recorded the Governor affirming he will sign the bill, and have in other threads, provided contact information for those who hold the future of the bill in hand.  If they will but show how amenable the Gov. is to this line of thinking, surely there are forces that can convince our Supermajority of conservative, Republican, 2nd Amendment loving legislators to step back from this 144 year old travesty against our Rights.

I'll tell you what...it that bill makes it to Haslam's desk out of this session I'll buy you a meal at the Chop House (or any other similarly priced restaurant) because if it gets signed into law (and surely Haslam will keep his word! LOL) no one would be happier than I!  ;)

Edited March 1, 2014 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

Now Robert, Dave seems to have a plan.

I don’t have a plan. I don’t know any politicians here and have no idea on what will happen with this bill. You are the one with TFA as a forum photo. I do not for the life of me understand why when you have the legislation you claim to want on the table; you are here explaining why it won’t pass. Of course it won’t pass if neither side is for it.

No one in this state has the horsepower to make something happen on a 2nd amendment proposal when it’s already on the table?

[Worriedman]

I don’t have a plan. I don’t know any politicians here and have no idea on what will happen with this bill. You are the one with TFA as a forum photo. I do not for the life of me understand why when you have the legislation you claim to want on the table; you are here explaining why it won’t pass. Of course it won’t pass if neither side is for it.

No one in this state has the horsepower to make something happen on a 2nd amendment proposal when it’s already on the table?

Never said I was not for it, I have been pushing legislators for it for years.  There are just not any that are going to try and pass it this year, or more truthfully, till Beth Harwell and Ron Ramsey are no longer Leadership, we can forget any substantive legislation coming out of Nashville.

 

Only chance we have to change that is for me to win the lottery, at which point I can afford to buy my own legislators to pass the Public Chapters that we need here, or beat enough Establishment candidates to get their attention.

 

I am afraid I am going to die before we can get there, as the lottery is out of the question, but I keep working at it.

I tried to tell you what the deal was on this bill this year, it is a sham to try and save Vance Dennis's hinney, it was never meant to get out of a committee, it is fluff to fool the People with, and that is the message that needs to be given with respect to his proposed legislation. We have a candidate to beat him, and Barrett Rich as well. That is how we will eventually get there, by attrition of the Establishment.

Beth Harwell has NEVER voted in favor of a firearms issue of consequence, as long as she is Speaker, the hill is high, she controls the caucus PAC.

[RobertNashville]

I don’t have a plan. I don’t know any politicians here and have no idea on what will happen with this bill. You are the one with TFA as a forum photo. I do not for the life of me understand why when you have the legislation you claim to want on the table; you are here explaining why it won’t pass. Of course it won’t pass if neither side is for it.

No one in this state has the horsepower to make something happen on a 2nd amendment proposal when it’s already on the table?

So...you don't have a plan...you don't know any politicians and you have no idea what will happen with this bill yet you chide those who do know some politicians...are involved with the TFA and might have some insight into the status and likely outcome of this bill...got it.  Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Respectfully, Dave...you complain about the law in TN regarding carrying arms and how it's "not a right in TN" in post after post...part of me truly admires you passion on the issue but don't you think that it would be prudent for you to GET to know some politicians?  To get involved with the TFA?  Get a plan together?  There really is strength in numbers and the TFA needs them as well as donations to its legislative action efforts and it needs people involved.

 

I was purposely oblivious to most of what happened in TN politically until two different things happened.

1. The fight over a state income tax...I heard Phil Valentine on the radio one Saturday morning and wen to legislative plaza and did so again quite a few times (nearly worn my horn out over those couple of years).

2.  I joined the TFA and started going to meetings when I could...at this point I DO know a few politicians...politicians who will actually take my calls and who, on occasion, have even called me!  I'm not claiming I've done anything great here...I'm not some hero with an inside track on whats going on but I'm at least a lot more involved now than I was then.  Maybe if a couple thousand more did the same we really could get some of the infringements on our rights removed.

Edited March 2, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Worriedman]

No one in this state has the horsepower to make something happen on a 2nd amendment proposal when it’s already on the table?

No one in this State has the MONEY at the current time to offset the funds being thrown at the legislature to defeat such initiatives by The Chamber of Commerce, Volkswagen, Fed Ex, all the Big Business bastions. 

If we could get the 1.6 million hunters in the State to pony up $20.00 each to the TFA PAC we would be a force to be reckoned with.  Money talks and BS walks, cash is the mother's milk of politics.

Legislators tell me privatley that they know 39-17-1307 is unconstitutional, but their bosses, who collect and dole out the money, don't give a rat's hinney.

[DaveTN]

No one in this State has the MONEY at the current time to offset the funds being thrown at the legislature to defeat such initiatives by The Chamber of Commerce, Volkswagen, Fed Ex, all the Big Business bastions. 

If we could get the 1.6 million hunters in the State to pony up $20.00 each to the TFA PAC we would be a force to be reckoned with.  Money talks and BS walks, cash is the mother's milk of politics.

Legislators tell me privatley that they know 39-17-1307 is unconstitutional, but their bosses, who collect and dole out the money, don't give a rat's hinney.

As I said I don’t know how things work here, but according to you legislation is for sale and the price you have put on acknowledging the right to bear arms is 32 million dollars. So if someone wrote a check to John Harris for 32 mil what would happen then? (That can’t happen now that the legislation is on the table)

I apologize if that sounds harsh but this is the legislation that pro carry folks want. It is within arm’s reach. If you want to blame this on us because we haven’t sent in enough money I would think you might want to bounce that off John Harris first.

I’m done with this before I get in trouble. I’m on a pro-gun forum arguing with a representative of the TFA about why legislation to have us takes our place as a Constitutional Carry state can’t pass after it has been proposed. Unbelievable.

[RobertNashville]

As I said I don’t know how things work here, but according to you legislation is for sale and the price you have put on acknowledging the right to bear arms is 32 million dollars. So if someone wrote a check to John Harris for 32 mil what would happen then? (That can’t happen now that the legislation is on the table)

I apologize if that sounds harsh but this is the legislation that pro carry folks want. It is within arm’s reach. If you want to blame this on us because we haven’t sent in enough money I would think you might want to bounce that off John Harris first.

I’m done with this before I get in trouble. I’m on a pro-gun forum arguing with a representative of the TFA about why legislation to have us takes our place as a Constitutional Carry state can’t pass after it has been proposed. Unbelievable.

What's "unbelievable" is that even after acknowledging "you don't know how things work here" and that you know no politicians and apparently have no clue about what it will take to get pro-firearm legislation passed you continue to disparage the TFA and browbeat those whoDO have a clue....now that really is UNBELIEVABLE.

 

Why don't you spend less time complaining and spend the time finding out how it DOES work here.

Edited March 2, 2014 by RobertNashville