CZ9mm's Continual Reloading Thread

[GlockSpock]

So, I've edited this first thread because I "made" my list and purchased it. I now own:

 

• Lee Classic Cast
• Lee Universal Decapping Die
• MTM Universal Reloading Tray
• Lee Deluxe Carbide 4-Die Set 9mm Luger
• Frankford Arsenal Electronic Caliper
• Hornady Lock-N-Load Conversion
• Lyman Electronic Scale Powder Funnel Pan
• Frankford Arsenal DS-750 Electronic Scale
• Lee Perfect Powder Measure

Now, I'm just getting started on reloading and will continually update this thread as I attempt to pickup reloading as a serious skill/hobby.

Edited October 28, 2015 by CZ9MM

[Hozzie]

I was going to say, if you go with Lee, check TitanReloading.  I think they are right across from the Lee Factory and their accessories and things are about the best price you will find anywhere.  I then noticed the press in your wishlist is actually from them, but I would still check them directly.  I ordered some molds from them and a few small casting parts and they were very quick to ship.

[Lowpower]

Reloading is very cool and fun when we first start because everything is new to us. Later on it becomes more of a chore.

I do it because I can. I also do it because I shoot Mid/long range target and want to extract the most I can from more bullets.

 

You need:

 

a loading block so you don't spill the cases with power in them.

Case lube for rifle brass sizing.

Die's for each of the cals you want to reload. 

A 6" harbor freight digitial electronic caliper. $9.50 when not on sale.

I'd suggest a 6" hf dial face caliper from them at $6.50 each. The battery on the electronic will go dead when you need it and the dial face is simple to read.

I'd also suggest you think about purchasing an RCBS Model 750 powder scale. Very accurate and they last forever.

 

The single stage press is ok for your rifle bullets. 

It wil hinder your reloading for pistol as you will spend more time at the reloading bench than the range. The progressive press is100% faster..

 

Reloading for rifle as follows: 

 

You prep the brass by sizing the neck, case and de-priming in one step. Do them all at once.

You may need to cut the brass to correct length as it has a tendency to stretch with firing. Do whichever ones need it.

Since you are purchasing a hand primer that's the next step. Do them all at once.

You now put all the brass into a reloading brass holder tray and start the powder charge process. Do them all at once. That's 50.

Swap out the sizing/de-priming die with the seating crimping die.

Check the seating depth using your gauge. Leave a couple of cases with fired primers and new bullets in them so you can double

check seating depth the next time you go back and reload that caliber. If you drill a hole in the side of the case they're easy to find and

can be used to function check your rifle.

 

It sounds like you're reloading for an AK 74. I'm not sure you can't cut out the middle man and buy loaded mil ammo for the same price or cheaper.

The rifle probably won't get much more accurate than mil spec MOA. By cutting out the middle man you get to shoot more.

 

Back to pistols....

 

I normally go through a few hundred rounds at the range on shooting day.  

 

The difference between a progressive press and a single stage is listed above for reloading rifles.

 

I take one empty case and stick it into the 

progressive press I pull the handle and it sizes, de-primes and primes the case. Depending on the press you either move the shell plate to the 

next position or it indexes automatically. I then stick another case on the press and repeat the hand pull. The original 1st case is not getting it's

neck belled and the case charged with powder. The 2nd case is going thru the sizing, etc, process. The shell plate now moves the case around again

and the 1st case is now ready in position 3 to accept a bullet. I add another mt case in position 1 and pull the handle. Position 3 seats and crimps the

bullet in the case.  The next time I add a case the finished bullet is going into the bucket, fully loaded. From that point on every time I add a case

in pos 1 and a bullet in position 3. 2 minor steps and a handle pull. Another loaded bullet is dropped into the bucket on every pull.

500-600 rounds an hour. You have to stop after 100 primers used and toss in another 100. Depending on power you use you can prob load 800 pistol

rounds before adding any.

 

The single stage press with all the prep work? 40-80 an hour, MAX. 

 

One warning...it is very easy to double load a pistol round. In fact, you could even triple load a case but that is rare. Double loading isn't since 4.9 gr.s of powder

doesn't come up very far in a .45 cap case. A double charge almost looks the same.

 

It's just the opposite with rifle ammo.It's almost impossible to to double charge a rifle bullet with modern stick powders. If you did, it'd be all over the floor.

 

Lee 1000 prog presses are around $190 with a cal, like 9mm.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Lowpower

[Dolomite_supafly]

Do a search for "midway" using my name as the author. There is a good list I made up last year.

[GlockSpock]

Reloading is very cool and fun when we first start because everything is new to us. Later on it becomes more of a chore.

I do it because I can. I also do it because I shoot Mid/long range target and want to extract the most I can from more bullets.

 

You need:

 

a loading block so you don't spill the cases with power in them.

Case lube for rifle brass sizing.

Die's for each of the cals you want to reload. 

A 6" harbor freight digitial electronic caliper. $9.50 when not on sale.

I'd suggest a 6" hf dial face caliper from them at $6.50 each. The battery on the electronic will go dead when you need it and the dial face is simple to read.

I'd also suggest you think about purchasing an RCBS Model 750 powder scale. Very accurate and they last forever.

 

The single stage press is ok for your rifle bullets. 

It wil hinder your reloading for pistol as you will spend more time at the reloading bench than the range. The progressive press is100% faster..

 

Reloading for rifle as follows: 

 

You prep the brass by sizing the neck, case and de-priming in one step. Do them all at once.

You may need to cut the brass to correct length as it has a tendency to stretch with firing. Do whichever ones need it.

Since you are purchasing a hand primer that's the next step. Do them all at once.

You now put all the brass into a reloading brass holder tray and start the powder charge process. Do them all at once. That's 50.

Swap out the sizing/de-priming die with the seating crimping die.

Check the seating depth using your gauge. Leave a couple of cases with fired primers and new bullets in them so you can double

check seating depth the next time you go back and reload that caliber. If you drill a hole in the side of the case they're easy to find and

can be used to function check your rifle.

 

It sounds like you're reloading for an AK 74. I'm not sure you can't cut out the middle man and buy loaded mil ammo for the same price or cheaper.

The rifle probably won't get much more accurate than mil spec MOA. By cutting out the middle man you get to shoot more.

 

Back to pistols....

 

I normally go through a few hundred rounds at the range on shooting day.  

 

The difference between a progressive press and a single stage is listed above for reloading rifles.

 

I take one empty case and stick it into the 

progressive press I pull the handle and it sizes, de-primes and primes the case. Depending on the press you either move the shell plate to the 

next position or it indexes automatically. I then stick another case on the press and repeat the hand pull. The original 1st case is not getting it's

neck belled and the case charged with powder. The 2nd case is going thru the sizing, etc, process. The shell plate now moves the case around again

and the 1st case is now ready in position 3 to accept a bullet. I add another mt case in position 1 and pull the handle. Position 3 seats and crimps the

bullet in the case.  The next time I add a case the finished bullet is going into the bucket, fully loaded. From that point on every time I add a case

in pos 1 and a bullet in position 3. 2 minor steps and a handle pull. Another loaded bullet is dropped into the bucket on every pull.

500-600 rounds an hour. You have to stop after 100 primers used and toss in another 100. Depending on power you use you can prob load 800 pistol

rounds before adding any.

 

The single stage press with all the prep work? 40-80 an hour, MAX. 

 

One warning...it is very easy to double load a pistol round. In fact, you could even triple load a case but that is rare. Double loading isn't since 4.9 gr.s of powder

doesn't come up very far in a .45 cap case. A double charge almost looks the same.

 

It's just the opposite with rifle ammo.It's almost impossible to to double charge a rifle bullet with modern stick powders. If you did, it'd be all over the floor.

 

Lee 1000 prog presses are around $190 with a cal, like 9mm.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I'm not necessarily about quantity but quality. A single stage is what I want to start with and will always be able to use it for something. I'm just getting into reloading so I don't feel guilty about shooting. I might reload 25 or 50 rounds an evening every night of the week. Every two weeks I might go shooting. That way I can shoot 500 rounds a month and not feel bad about spending hundreds of bucks doing so. Unfortunately, right now I'm shooting about 0 rounds a month.

 

a loading block so you don't spill the cases with power in them.

Case lube for rifle brass sizing. Been recommended to try lanolin oil dissolved into Isopropyl alcohol. Case lube is cheap though, so why not?

Die's for each of the cals you want to reload. Lee vs. RCBS. I'm thinking Lee but would like both sides.

A 6" harbor freight digitial electronic caliper. $9.50 when not on sale. $9.50 is cheaper than Hornady but will research price vs. quality

I'd suggest a 6" hf dial face caliper from them at $6.50 each. The battery on the electronic will go dead when you need it and the dial face is simple to read. I like this idea; Manual backups for everything!

I'd also suggest you think about purchasing an RCBS Model 750 powder scale. Very accurate and they last forever. Possibly in the future, but I don't think I'll start with one.

 

Also, 5.56x45mm is black rifle ammo, not commie rifle ammo. You're thinking of 5.45x39mm for the AK-74.

Edited February 20, 2014 by CZ9MM

[GlockSpock]

Do a search for "midway" using my name as the author. There is a good list I made up last year.

 

And I (mostly) took that list and turned it into an Amazon wish list! Something I am trying to figure out though. In that list you mentioned "Hornady Lock-N-Load Press and Die Conversion Bushing Kit". Do I need that if I go with the Classic Breech? I understand that it's for converting non "breech" into "breechlike".

[GlockSpock]

Do a search for "midway" using my name as the author. There is a good list I made up last year.

 

 

 

These are all available at Midway Usa. They normally have coupons online so you can save money as well.

lee-perfect-powder-measure

lee-auto-prime-hand-priming-tool-shellholder-package-of-11

frankford-arsenal-micro-reloading-electronic-powder-scale-750-grain-capacity

lee-auto-prime-hand-priming-tool

lyman-electronic-scale-powder-funnel-pan

lee-classic-cast-breech-lock-single-stage-press

hornady-lock-n-load-press-and-die-conversion-bushing-kit

hornady-electronic-caliper-6-stainless-steel

This is what it would minimally take to load. You would still need to buy the particular dies you need as well as bullets, primers and powder. I suggest the primers and powder be purchased locally. I would also suggest buying jacketed bullets in the begining, they are easier to deal with than cast. Cast bullets add another facet to reloading.

People are going to say the Lee stuff is crap but I have used all these items for a few years now without a single issue. For the money the Perfect Powder Measure can't be beat.

I prefer a electronic over a balance beam. Balance beams take a lot longer to settle than an electronic.

No need to tumble your brass to clean them. Get some Lemishine at Walmart. Add a table spoon to some water and soak your brass for 24 hours. Every time you walk by give them a shake to aggitate them. Rinse them and let dry. Brass will be very clean and useable.

As far as supplies to reload you can get what you need from David, DLM37015 on here. He has all the supplies you could want or need to reload.

The list above is under $200.

Here are a few things to do to save money at the cost of convienence

You could do away with the conversion bushings if you don't mind setting up your dies each time. I find it hard to make identical ammunition when I have to set the dies up each time.

You could also do away with the powder pan and just weigh the powder in the casing. You just need to make sure to zero out the scale for each casing because they all weigh differently.

You could also dip out the powder and not use the Perfect Powder Measure but that is a very slow going process.

The Press has a priming tool on it but that is also another slow going process. You are also tied to your press to prime cases. With the hand primers you can watch TV while priming cases.

Dolomite 

 

That's the one I found.

[Jonnin]

well, im a big fan of the classic turret.  I find I save about 50% or more time per batch with it, for straight walled cases.  For necked cases, it does not make any difference.  The one you have is also very good, so this is just me inserting personal bias.

 

- 9mm and 45 ammo thingys (when you buy ammo, the plastic tray they come in) serve as loading trays for almost all rifle and pistol ammo in most calibers and are free.  I just choke up at $8 for nearly the same thing, but its your money.  IF you powder the case in the tray, one tray is worth having.  If you just want something to hold the case upright while you work, the freebies are the way to go.  If you powder on the scale via trickle, the freebies are the way to go.

 

- I hate the hand prime tool, but I am a weirdo and worse, my hands give me much pain.   I use the press prime.  Do you need it or want it or was it just recommended?  I also choke at the thought of handling explosives while watching TV as some suggest, but again, im a little strange.  Its a nice widgit if you want it, but its redundant if your press has a prime tool in it (most do?).   Guy talked me into it when I started, one of the places I wasted money.

 

- do you need a trimming system?  I don't see one there.

 

- do you need a bench, storage space, or any of that?

 

- I like to make some of my ammo fast, would the lee disk powder device be of any use?  Its sloppy,  probably at least a .2 grain variation (or +-.1 if you prefer) but its fast and you can't tell at short range with a pistol.  This would be in addition to what you picked, not instead of.

 

Most of it looks really good. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

And I (mostly) took that list and turned it into an Amazon wish list! Something I am trying to figure out though. In that list you mentioned "Hornady Lock-N-Load Press and Die Conversion Bushing Kit". Do I need that if I go with the Classic Breech? I understand that it's for converting non "breech" into "breechlike".

 

It is.

 

Personally I like the Hornady version a lot better than the Lee version but the Lee version will work.

[GlockSpock]

It is.

 

Personally I like the Hornady version a lot better than the Lee version but the Lee version will work.

 

So you are suggesting to go with the Lee Classic turret for under $100, get the "conversion" by Hornady, and then buy Hornady bushings? Hornady bushings are seemingly quite a bit cheaper. Any other specific reasons you like them?

[Dolomite_supafly]

So you are suggesting to go with the Lee Classic turret for under $100, get the "conversion" by Hornady, and then buy Hornady bushings? Hornady bushings are seemingly quite a bit cheaper. Any other specific reasons you like them?

 

Yeah, that is what I am suggesting. The reason I like the Hornady is they do not have the funky interrupted thread design like Lee and they do not have the button you have to push to swap the dies out. The Hornady is just easier to use, especially if you have only one hand to use.

[GlockSpock]

Yeah, that is what I am suggesting. The reason I like the Hornady is they do not have the funky interrupted thread design like Lee and they do not have the button you have to push to swap the dies out. The Hornady is just easier to use, especially if you have only one hand to use.

 

Sold. Swapped that up on the list and added the Hornady Conversion.

[gregintenn]

You'll need some means to trim and chamfer case necks. The Lee system works great and is inexpensive. You'll want the cutter/lock stud combo, a chamfer tool (this will also remove the primer crimp from military brass), and the shellholder/case length gauge for each caliber you load.

 

If you trim a box or so, you can do it by hand. If you are trimming a large volume of cases, you can chuck the lock stud in a drill to make things easier.

 

Pretty quick, you'll also likely find a use for a kinetic bullet puller.

 

Of course you'll want one, and preferably several reloading manuals.

 

These, as well as components (brass, bullets, primers, and powder), will be more than enough to get you started.

 

As far as the breech block system, I personally don't see much advantage to them. Once adjusted correctly, it only takes a second or two to screw in or unscrew a die in the press. If you don't move the lock nut, it should stay in adjustment from now on.

[GlockSpock]

You'll need some means to trim and chamfer case necks. The Lee system works great and is inexpensive. You'll want the cutter/lock stud combo, a chamfer tool (this will also remove the primer crimp from military brass), and the shellholder/case length gauge for each caliber you load.

 

If you trim a box or so, you can do it by hand. If you are trimming a large volume of cases, you can chuck the lock stud in a drill to make things easier.

 

Pretty quick, you'll also likely find a use for a kinetic bullet puller.

 

Of course you'll want one, and preferably several reloading manuals.

 

These, as well as components (brass, bullets, primers, and powder), will be more than enough to get you started.

 

As far as the breech block system, I personally don't see much advantage to them. Once adjusted correctly, it only takes a second or two to screw in or unscrew a die in the press. If you don't move the lock nut, it should stay in adjustment from now on.

 

You'll need some means to trim and chamfer case necks. The Lee system works great and is inexpensive. You'll want the cutter/lock stud combo, a chamfer tool (this will also remove the primer crimp from military brass), and the shellholder/case length gauge for each caliber you load.

 

If you trim a box or so, you can do it by hand. If you are trimming a large volume of cases, you can chuck the lock stud in a drill to make things easier.

 

Pretty quick, you'll also likely find a use for a kinetic bullet puller.

 

Of course you'll want one, and preferably several reloading manuals.

 

These, as well as components (brass, bullets, primers, and powder), will be more than enough to get you started.

 

As far as the breech block system, I personally don't see much advantage to them. Once adjusted correctly, it only takes a second or two to screw in or unscrew a die in the press. If you don't move the lock nut, it should stay in adjustment from now on.

 

Generally, I won't have to worry about trimming 9mm will I but moreso for 5.56mm?

[Luke E.]

As far as the breech block system, I personally don't see much advantage to them. Once adjusted correctly, it only takes a second or two to screw in or unscrew a die in the press. If you don't move the lock nut, it should stay in adjustment from now on.

 

 It won't be that simple if he chooses Lee dies. 

[BrokeEnthusiast]

Go big or go home, this is the nicest setup I've seen.  This is my wishlist...   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5Jv2XJsl0

[jcj]

PM inbound, CZ. Sent via Tapatalk. Blame the phone for any spelling issues.

[Jonnin]

Generally, I won't have to worry about trimming 9mm will I but moreso for 5.56mm?

 

yes, you need to trim 556 and 223.    Supposedly this caliber can be dangerous if the brass gets stretched thin AND long enough to enter the throat too deeply (as in the brass is up into the rifling nearly?).  That probably takes reusing the same case 10 times without a trim between or something extreme --- never heard of it IRL just one of those warnings that is passed along.

[GlockSpock]

Go big or go home, this is the nicest setup I've seen.  This is my wishlist...   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5Jv2XJsl0

 

And.....that would be why you are known as "BrokeEnthusiast".  :rofl:

[GlockSpock]

Two more questions:
 

I notice that the Lee dies allow you to pour in your powder from the top of the die during the expanding process. Is that fully trusted compared to pouring it directly into the case itself? Are things such as under/over charges possible due to that method due to the powder getting stuck in the die instead of fully reaching the case?

Dies. Someone above me mentioned locking rings on dies. Not all dies come with those, and with a breech lock system, I don't think you even necessarily would benefit from them. I kind of like the idea of the Lee 4 Die Carbide set for 9mm.

I like the idea of the 4 Die set because it gives you more flexibility in the "factory crimp".

Three vs. four dies, manufacturers, give me the scoop.

[GlockSpock]

It won't be that simple if he chooses Lee dies.

Two more questions:
 

I notice that the Lee dies allow you to pour in your powder from the top of the die during the expanding process. Is that fully trusted compared to pouring it directly into the case itself? Are things such as under/over charges possible due to that method due to the powder getting stuck in the die instead of fully reaching the case?

Dies. Someone above me mentioned locking rings on dies. Not all dies come with those, and with a breech lock system, I don't think you even necessarily would benefit from them. I kind of like the idea of the Lee 4 Die Carbide set for 9mm.

I like the idea of the 4 Die set because it gives you more flexibility in the "factory crimp".

Three vs. four dies, manufacturers, give me the scoop.

Actually, turns out Lee does include lock rings. Why do you say it will not be that simple if I choose Lee?

[gregintenn]

Actually, turns out Lee does include lock rings. Why do you say it will not be that simple if I choose Lee?

Instead of a lock ring with a set screw, or a screw that locks the lock ring into position, the Lee lock rings have a rubber o ring, or bushing, that holds the ring in adjustment. If you turn the die in and out of the press with the die body, and not the lock ring, it could be moved. With a bit of care, you can keep the lock ring in position on the Lee dies, but they are not as secure as other brands. To me it isn't a big deal, Other people think it is. I like the fact that I don't have to dig out an allen wrench anytime I want to adjust the die. All and all, Lee dies are my favorite brand, regardless of price.

 

You can adjust the bullet seating die to crimp cases as desired, thus negating the need for a crimp die. I've never had any problem with this. Other people prefer to crimp in a separate operation. To use the seating die for crimping, however, your cases will need to be a uniform length. Not so with the Lee factory crimp die. I trim all my cases. A lot of people don't.

 

I do not use the powder through feature on the expander die. A funnel works just as well. I like to charge one case at a time, and then immediately seat the bullet. This keeps you from knocking cases over and spilling powder. On a single stage press, you'll have one die at a time in the press. If you pour the powder into the case through the expander die, then you'll have a bunch of charged cases sitting on your bench until you replace the expander die with the bullet seating die. That would be when I would knock them over.

 

I like to tumble, size, trim and chamfer, clean the primer pocket, flare the case mouth (on pistol brass), and reprime a bunch of cases in batches. I do this in my spare time in the winter to help fight boredom. Then, they are ready to load whenever I want. Once your brass has been processed like this, you can load as many or as few as you want in very little time.

 

I store my processed brass, divided into caliber, in the big plastic Folger's coffee cans.

 

I'm not telling you all this is the best way to do it, I'm just giving an example of one way it can be done.

[GlockSpock]

Instead of a lock ring with a set screw, or a screw that locks the lock ring into position, the Lee lock rings have a rubber o ring, or bushing, that holds the ring in adjustment. If you turn the die in and out of the press with the die body, and not the lock ring, it could be moved. With a bit of care, you can keep the lock ring in position on the Lee dies, but they are not as secure as other brands. To me it isn't a big deal, Other people think it is. I like the fact that I don't have to dig out an allen wrench anytime I want to adjust the die. All and all, Lee dies are my favorite brand, regardless of price.

 

You can adjust the bullet seating die to crimp cases as desired, thus negating the need for a crimp die. I've never had any problem with this. Other people prefer to crimp in a separate operation. To use the seating die for crimping, however, your cases will need to be a uniform length. Not so with the Lee factory crimp die. I trim all my cases. A lot of people don't.

 

I do not use the powder through feature on the expander die. A funnel works just as well. I like to charge one case at a time, and then immediately seat the bullet. This keeps you from knocking cases over and spilling powder. On a single stage press, you'll have one die at a time in the press. If you pour the powder into the case through the expander die, then you'll have a bunch of charged cases sitting on your bench until you replace the expander die with the bullet seating die. That would be when I would knock them over.

 

I like to tumble, size, trim and chamfer, clean the primer pocket, flare the case mouth (on pistol brass), and reprime a bunch of cases in batches. I do this in my spare time in the winter to help fight boredom. Then, they are ready to load whenever I want. Once your brass has been processed like this, you can load as many or as few as you want in very little time.

 

I store my processed brass, divided into caliber, in the big plastic Folger's coffee cans.

 

I'm not telling you all this is the best way to do it, I'm just giving an example of one way it can be done.

 

Thanks! Yes, I certainly wish I could have gotten setup at the end of Fall 2013, but other financial priorities came up. I also don't think I have shot since Summer 2013, so I decided to get reloading stuff now so that I can shoot this summer and not feel too guilty about it. I've been piling as much as I can into savings for a house, and the extra 250 to 500 rounds a month I would like to shoot just hasn't happened yet. Once I get setup, it can!

 

I think I will go with the 4 die set. I've read that it is often easier for beginners to go this route.

 

Thanks for the input on the lock rings.

 

At this point, I am thinking that I will probably put on hold the Hornady LNL Conversion bushingsas well as quite probably the hand primer. I'd like to get a feel for reloading "the classic way" without all these little shortcut tools that we have now. Then a month or two later, I'll "upgrade" to the Hornady Conversion and the Hand Primer.

 

All of this stuff about reloading has really made me want a Ruger GP100 and a .308 bolt gun. 

[gregintenn]

I would suggest you start with the hand primer. It is a small expense, but a big improvement over priming with a press.

 

I'll sometimes sit on the couch and watch a movie while priming a batch of cases with my hand primer.

 

Pull an umprimed case from one coffee can, prime it, and pitch it in the other coffee can.

Edited February 21, 2014 by gregintenn

[GlockSpock]

I would suggest you start with the hand primer. It is a small expense, but a big improvement over priming with a press.

 

I'll sometimes sit on the couch and watch a movie while priming a batch of cases with my hand primer.

 

Pull an umprimed case from one coffee can, prime it, and pitch it in the other coffee can.

 

So I may and I may not. I probably will, but I just "first" wanted to see how to prime with the press. Right now I'm looking at tumblers. Soaking them in Lemishine does work, but I want them to be shiny. Right now I like the looks of this:

 

Frankford Arsenal

 

However, everyone on here always talks about the Harbor Freight Tumbler. With a coupon, the price is pretty much negligible between the two.

 

Thoughts on tumblers?