Help me out... neve hunted before, need to choose my Mosin or Marlin 1894 .357 mag

[musicman]

OK, like the title says, I've never hunted before. Well, I used to hunt down lizards in the backyard with my bb gun in Miami as a kid. But other than that, no real hunting of any kind.

I have a couple friends who are all willing to take me deer hunting this year, and I've got to choose which rifle I will use. I don't have the money to buy another gun, so I've got to choose between my Mosin 91/44 carbine, or my Marlin 1894C in 357 mag. I'm asking for all of you experienced hunters' help in weighing the pros and cons of these guns, and helping me make a decision.

I reload for 357, and have worked up some pretty hot and consistent loads for the Marlin. I do not reload for the Mosin, and at this point I just have about 30 round of old surplus ammo. I know there is modern, non-corrosive soft point ammo available if I choose to go with the 91/44.

Neither of these guns are currently scoped, so I have to go about getting mounts and scopes for whichever I choose. I am having problems with the marlin at 100 yards with open sights. It shoots WAY high, with both 125 and 158gr loadings. I cannot crank down the rear sight any more, and the front sight is not adjustable. Other than being way high, it shoots good groups for a levergun, I think. I've been getting around 4" with my bad eyes at 100 yds. I think with a good 2 or 2.5x scope, I could cut that in half. I get about the same with the Mosin, but need the bayonet extended to shoot to sights. With it folded, they land far low and left. Again, if I scope the Mosin, I can just sight it in with the bayonet folded, and the problem is taken care of.

The Mosin is one heavy beast. I don't relish the idea of carrying that monster through the woods. The Marlin is not the octagon barrelled cowboy version like Eddie's (molonlabetn's) gun, and is of a much more manageable weight.

Stupid noob question: do you wear ear protection when hunting? I know you want to be quiet, and to be able to hear everything, so I would guess you do not wear muffs/plugs while searching for your animal. Do you stop and take the time to put on earware when you've foun him? I would think that would take a lot of time and make noise, which would maybe make you lose your shot. Do you just take the shot and deal with some ringing for awhile? The Mosin (as most of you know) is L O U D!!!! I really don't look forward to the idea of shooting that thing unprotected. The Marlin does have a strong report with hot 357 loads, but not even in the same realm as the Mosin.

I don't have a chronograph, so I can't give real velocities for ammo in either of these guns. I am positive that the Mosin has more power, based on velocities listed in ballistics charts. Its bullets also have a better profile for longer and flatter shooting. However, I don't know of and good hunting bullet designs in 7.62x54R. I know there are modern softpoints, but I don't know if they have a strong reputation or not. In 357mag, a lot of velocity is gained by the longer barrel (18.5" on my gun) producing, in some cases I've read about, 25-40% more velocity than in a 4-6" handgun. There is also no loss due to cylinder gap. The shorter, wider, gaping hollowpoint of the .357 bullets produce more drag, and more bullet drop. I have Hornady XTP hps in 125gr, 140gr, 158gr, and 180gr on hand. Though I have no real world experience, I tend to like heavier than faster. I am leaning toward a 158gr or 180gr loading, and then testing so see the flight curve at 25, 50, and 100 yards. With the 158gr load, I don't think it will be too bad. Should I even b concerned so much with drop beyond 100 yards, and velocity loss?

From what I hear, most deer in TN are taken well inside 100 yds anyway. Am safe in assuming that I can hold a 3-4" group at 100 yards, and that if the bullets lands in the right place, I should have venison for dinner?

Whaddya think guys? Tell me what you think, and tell me what you think I have completely missed. I am a noob, and really appreciate and look forward to your advice. Thanks!

[memphismason]

I do not have experience hunting with either of these rounds, but I have heard of people taking white tails with their .357 handguns load with

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp;jsessionid=5KRXYM2WZ03LRLAQBBKSCOFMCAEFMIWE?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=&id=0012669215321a&navCount=0&podId=0012669&parentId=&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=XH&rid=&parentType=&indexId=&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=N/A&cm_pla=N/A&cm_ite=netcon&hasJS=true&_requestid=52637

As far as hearing protection, none is required. I think it all falls back on the adrenaline pumping, but my ears never ring after I take a shot with my .30-06 on a deer. Now just out shooting for fun, first shot I am deaf.

Woods = less than and up to 100 yards

Field = How far you can make a clean kill.

I would definitely want to be accurate up to 100 yards. So if that means purchase a scope, then I would be on the market for a good scope. I use a 3x9x40 Redfield on my .30-06. It has worked great for me.

[ShaunM]

Well lets start out by saying you can hunt with both guns as long as you are not using FMJ rounds against the law. Personally I would use the 357 it makes for a great brush gun (light easy to carry) and I think if you put a good scope on it, it will be fine out to 125 yards which is plenty. If you are experiencing drop at 100 yards sight your rifle in at 1 to 2 inches high at 50 yards and then shoot 100 yards. I have taken deer at 125 yards with a 357 lever gun with 140 grain factory loads. As far as ear protection you want to hear the animal so you know what direction he is coming, they do make an ear piece that alows you to hear the smallest noise, but when your gun is fired it cuts off acting as an ear muff. I have never hunted with a mosin so not real familiar with what loads are better than others, if I was using it I would not go over 150 grain, but thats my personal opinion.

Oh and when you harvest your deer take the back strip and cut it into squares and use a meat cleaver, beat it down to tenderize then soak in buttermilk for around 5 hours in the frig, flour and salt and cook it in a fry daddy, you will love it and bring me some.

Edited September 24, 2008 by Hunting101

[cknight8]

of those two options, i would use the Marlin .357. scope mounts will be cheaper and more readily available for it also. treat it like a loud bow, and you should have venison out to 125 yards. which for woods hunting in TN, is way long shot. most areas i hunt in the woods are only about 60 yard shots at most. thats why i use a .30-30 and no big high powered stuff for me...just dont need it. on the scope, i would say if you are going to do it, get at least a 3-9x40mm variable or a fixed 4x. in my opinion, its not worth messing with a 2x, just shoot iron sights if thats what you want.

as you are becoming a new hunter, i would strongly encourage you to learn the animals anatomy that you plan to go after. find out where the heart & lungs are, and where they will be at different angles and such. this will help you with your shot placement. if you do go the .357 route, i would avoid directly on the shoulder shots. that bone is thick, and without alot of punch it might not get deep enough to reach the heart and lungs. i'd shoot it slightly off the shoulder and slightly higher on a broadside shot to make sure i got the heart and at least one lung (thats what i meant earlier by treat it like a loud bow).

[ShaunM]

I agree with cknight you should know where to shoot the animal to make a clean kill. They sell targets with vitals printed on it, could pick some up and practice. Have your friends who invited you go over broad shots, quartering away shots, etc. You can probably find videos on youtube about different shot placements. I agree also on scopes a 3-9x40/50 will be plenty big enough

[memphismason]

Definitely a behind the sholder shot!

[ShaunM]

Definitely a behind the sholder shot!

Just shoot them in the head. Just kidding!!!!!!!!!

[memphismason]

Just shoot them in the head. Just kidding!!!!!!!!!

I wished I was that good.

I still get buck fever everytime I see a deer.

[musicman]

Thanks for all the input guys! I have decided to go with the Marlin, for al the reasons you all have stated. I'm going to work on load recipes now. I have on hand lot of Hornady XTPs in various weights. I prefer to use a jacketed bullet because leading is a PITA to clean out of that dang Marlin! Do you suggest anything different?

Also, can you give me some scope and mount recommendations? The only scope I've ever bought was a cheapo bushnell for my 10/22. I want to keep this as affordable as possible.

Thanks!

[memphismason]

There are many good scopes out there, and I do mean MANY.

I have a Redfied Widefield scope that at least 15-20 years old, mounted on my .30-06 with Weaver over and under Scope Mounts.

I got the Weaver mounts from Wal-Mart, but Bass-Pro sells them also.

I recommend going to Bass Pro, or somewhere that has many different scopes, and take a peek through them.

Try....

Simmons

Leupold

Nikon

Tasco makes a nice cheap 3x9x40scope that you can pick up at walmart for about $30......it works fine for up to 100 yards shots (that is what I put on my Muzzleloader)

[cknight8]

Thanks for all the input guys! I have decided to go with the Marlin, for al the reasons you all have stated. I'm going to work on load recipes now. I have on hand lot of Hornady XTPs in various weights. I prefer to use a jacketed bullet because leading is a PITA to clean out of that dang Marlin! Do you suggest anything different?

Also, can you give me some scope and mount recommendations? The only scope I've ever bought was a cheapo bushnell for my 10/22. I want to keep this as affordable as possible.

Thanks!

on scopes, i would stick with Bushnell or Nikon. they are about the best bang for your buck. a good 3-9x40mm will run in the $150 range, but a fixed 4x will be cheaper. i'd stay away from the ultra cheap scopes, but thats just me. i use those on .22's only. the Bushnell Legend and Elite 3200's are super nice, as are any of the Nikon's. you can get a low end Nikon at walmart these days...

[chipperi]

Though I live here in TN I have never hunted here. Check the law first! Where I used to hunt in WV you were not allowed to use a straight walled round less that .44!

The first time I went hunting I was really surprised. I assume due to adrenaline I didn't really hear the report or feel the recoil of the 30.06 I was hunting with. Hearing protection would be the safest bet though I don't where them due to the fact as the sun is barely up and most of the time I hear them before I see them.

I would go with the Mosin just for the added range. I would also look into reloading some 7.62x54 with Nosler Partition or a like bullet. The shorter distanse it runs the shorter distance you have to haul it back to the truck.