TC Encore pistol & rifle Fram Differences?

[Sidewinder]

I was lurking on a TC site that has classifieds, and noticed that people would state that their frame was a pistol or a rifle. I was not aware that there was any difference between the Encore receiver on a pistol and a rifle. Can someone educate me on the differences? Pics would be great too. Thanks.

[cj0e]

Pistol frame can be made into a rifle, then back to a pistol later.

 

Rifle frame can only be rifle. Unless you want to get a stamp.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Physically there are zero differences. How they left the factory does make a difference.

[KahrMan]

I thought Contender/Encores had an exemption and it did not matter if it was sold as a rifle or pistol.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If it left the factory as a rifle it cannot be converted into a pistol.

[KahrMan]

Well, that clears that up.  Thanks Dolomite

[Sidewinder]

Wow! Dolomite, that makes every TC Contender - Encore frame a mystery! I would imagine that thinking a frame was a pistol could cause one to pay more for it than they normally would, if they knew it could only be a long gun...legally. No doubt, there are probably people walking around with pistol barrels on rifle frames!

 

Does the factory publish the serial numbers somewhere, so that a person about to buy one from a pawn shop, or an individual , can tell what they're buying? It seems they would have marked the frames some way so a person could tell which frame they were looking at.

[Oh Shoot]

I thought Contender/Encores had an exemption and it did not matter if it was sold as a rifle or pistol.

 

No, it was SCOTUS test case in 1992 regarding constructive possession which also resulted in pistol to rifle to pistol ruling, but it is subject to same rules as Dol mentions, same as for an AR lower for example

 

There are some antique firearms that have their own exemption for one thing and another, though.

 

- OS

[Sidewinder]

Oh Shoot, glad you mentioned the AR "pistol - rifle" situation. I'm currently trying to deal with an individual, on another site, on an Encore frame. He placed a price on it, and I asked if it was a "pistol frame" or if it was a "rifle frame". He told me they are the same. I told him what has been said in this thread, and he said he'd never heard of that. Thank you knowledgeable Contender and Encore  folks, for sharing your information with the rest of us. Can someone confirm that the factory is the only place we can confirm whether a frame is a pistol or rifle frame?

[Dolomite_supafly]

My last Encore I bought I made sure the seller could verify it was transferred as a receiver when he bought it.

I know there is a year cutoff where they did not make any factory Contender rifles. Before that they were all pistols.

I am going to get really deep into a search. Hopefully one could call T/C and ask but I suspect it is not going to be that easy.

[Oh Shoot]

My last Encore I bought I made sure the seller could verify it was transferred as a receiver when he bought it.

 

Be aware that what an FFL marks on the 4473 does not determine the legality as to how a given firearm may be configured.

 

- OS

Edited February 26, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Dolomite_supafly]

We had a history since new. I am the 3rd owner and he 2nd owner called the first owner.

Also, if it is a rifle and was transferred as anything else the ATF will call. It happened to someone on this board. He built a AK pistol on a virgin Nodak receiver. When he sold it the FFL used the trunion serial number rather than the receiver serial number and because the trunion serial number was used previously for a rifle the seller got a visit. The agent claimed he made a pistol illegally from a rifle. All was cleared up as soon as the agent seen a new Nodak receiver was used.

So when I transferred the Encore receiver as that I would have gotten a visit if it was a rifle.

[Oh Shoot]

We had a history since new. I am the 3rd owner and he 2nd owner called the first owner.

Also, if it is a rifle and was transferred as anything else the ATF will call. It happened to someone on this board. He built a AK pistol on a virgin Nodak receiver. When he sold it the FFL used the trunion serial number rather than the receiver serial number and because the trunion serial number was used previously for a rifle the seller got a visit. The agent claimed he made a pistol illegally from a rifle. All was cleared up as soon as the agent seen a new Nodak receiver was used.

So when I transferred the Encore receiver as that I would have gotten a visit if it was a rifle.

 

Seems to echo what I said, as far as I understand what you say, that the actual legality of what you can do with a firearm is not determined by what an FFL decides to put in section 18 or 29 on 4473.

 

However,  since 8/2008 all receivers, new or used,  are supposed to be transferred as "other firearm" in section 18, but that doesn't necessarily make them legal to make a pistol with, any more than a receiver transferred as "rifle" before that change makes it necessarily illegal to do so.

 

- OS

Edited February 26, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Sidewinder]

I'm looking for an Encore frame, and had planned to keep my "hard open" contender. Will my contender barrels fit the Encore? How about the grips? I understand there are barrels that will fit the Encore that won't fit the Contender. Will pretty much all Contender Barrels fit the Encore?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Nothing interchanges between the Encore and the Contender from what I have found. I know for a fact the barrels, stocks and grips do not.

[221 Fireball]

And this whole T/C business shows exactly how ridiculous and complicated our gun laws are. :down:

 

Wonder how many T/C single shots have ever been used in a crime?

 

IMO, single shots should have lots of exemptions. Heck, the government should be glad for those who choose a single shot over a semi-auto.

[Sidewinder]

Dolomite, OS, 221 Fireball and others...Oh how I long for the days of the good ole 1950s, when I could walk out my back door and hunt squirrel, ducks, rabbit, and quail...and either didn't have all of these firearm laws or was totally oblivious to them. Course, they didn't have the Thompson Centers then. I guess with more variations of the TC for us to choose from, there naturally comes more laws and regulations.

 

Dolomite, you say none of the Contender barrels will fit the Encore? I've also read that some of the stainless barrels won't fit on blued frames... any experience with this?

 

One more question...will the noise attenuating head sets, like those sold at Wally World, handle the blast from a 10" .223 barrel, or are ear plugs required in addition?

[Dolomite_supafly]

It isn't stainless barrels but the Armor Alloy barrels from what I have read. I have several factory SS barrels and they all fit fine. I have not had any Armor Alloy barrels.

Foam ear plugs are required with short barreled 223's. Adding head sets help but it hurts if you only use the head set.

Again, I am trying to figure the dates when rifles became an option. Before that date you are clear to have a rifle or pistol as long as you don't make an NFA item.

[Sidewinder]

Dolomite, I appreciate the information. I'll have to read up on the "Armor Alloy" barrels.

 

I've been lurking on some of the other break barrel sites...trying to learn all I can about the TCs, and the pistol/rifle frame issue has created quite a stir! In a way, it looks like it goes back on TC, for not simply putting a "P" on the pistol S/Ns, and an "R" on the rifle S/Ns. Wouldn't that have solved the problem? I'm talking about when they introduced the rifle configuration.

 

It would be interesting to see a "time line" on the different frames.

[Sidewinder]

Does anyone have a "time line" on the different models of Thompson Center  frames?

[Westwindmike]

http://www.handgunhunt.com/tech/t1/index.html

 

This may help.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Westwindmike

[Sidewinder]

http://www.handgunhunt.com/tech/t1/index.html

 

This may help.

I've got this, but it doesn't break it down into all the frame variations. Thanks anyway.