Well that was an experience. (And some unsolicited advice)

[Guest TankerHC]

Well the services are complete, cremation complete, just about everything complete.

 

I have seen it from the sidelines in more than just my family (Including my family in the past) and also wonder why, when someone passes, everyone all of a sudden goes stupid. Oh well, it is what it is. 

 

Here is my unsolicited advice based on my recent experience. 

 

If you think "I'm just going to be cremated and let the family be done with it". Nope. Aint gonna happen. With near 20,000 members here there has to be some Funeral Directors, they know and those who know, this is the truth.

 

If you dont have life insurance, or much life insurance, you might want to consider getting a burial policy. They are not expensive, and you do not have to take a physical. Plus even if you cannot get a life insurance policy for health reasons or whatever, on a Burial policy, whatever doesnt go to pay the Funeral Home goes to the Family. 

 

But, you have to stay alive for a while after getting that Policy. Buying a Burial Policy that requires you to remain above ground for 36 months (And they do sell them for 24 months) when you know your dying, isn't going to work.

 

Cremations are not free, in fact they are kinda expensive.

 

They are not just going to cremate you and hand over your ashes. There are State Laws that require a certain kind of container. And they aren't exactly cheap either. Considering most people who want to "Just be cremated" think it reduces cost, it does. But everything is still not cheap.You can get containers that meet the rules for $75, but will someone with the money be there with the $75 and the "up to" 3 grand it can cost to be cremated?

 

Families want services, even if you don't, and you wont have any say in the matter unless you leave a will and want your ashes disposed of by the Crematorium.  Services arent free, especially when your from a different state than that in which you live.

 

Shipping you in your approved container isn't free. There are additional rules that govern that.

 

Transportation isnt free. 

 

A Minister/Preacher/Priest will conduct services for free, but it is customary to give a donation, which isnt free.

 

Your family may not want your ashes scattered to the four winds. Niche's are not free, in fact they can be quite expensive.

 

Getting your names engraved on the Niche is not free.

 

Your may want your ashes to be buried on top of a relative (Mother, father etc), Even opening a small hole to do it is considered "Opening a grave" and is not free and costs the same for opening the entire hole, and may be quite expensive.

 

Leave a will, even if you live in a van down by the river, you may think "I dont have anything anyone would fight over", dont count on it. Execution of wills is not free.

 

Food for visiting relatives, is not free.

 

If you leave it up to the family, or decide you want to be laid out for viewing before cremation, it isnt free.

 

 

In your will leave someone in charge, who agrees, to handle the business part. The spouse normally wont be able to and you end up with havoc, everyone else may turn temporarily stupid. 

 

Have a will, you can do it yourself, there is freeware online to do it, get it notarized, file it at the courthouse and hand a copy to someone you trust. (Your executor).

 

Buy a cheap burial policy if nothing else.

 

I only post this because it is based on my recent experience and I have heard over and over "im just going to be cremated and be done with it" from all sorts of people, including my own family and friends. Well, even if you "just get cremated" it isnt going to be "done with it". It varies State to State, but even if you go the minimal direction, you could still be looking at 3-4000. If family wants this and that, and you add in incidentals, your family (Or a family member) could end up spending well towards 10 grand. And that isnt even for something big.

 

Sorry about the sort of "morbid" post. But this is the first time I have done this personally, and everything I was told, assumed, and everything else, about "Just being cremated and being done with it" was wrong.

 

So, back to normal posting.  

Edited February 14, 2014 by TankerHC

[Mike.357]

good advice Tanker.

 

I lost both of my parents within 50 days this past Fall.   Nothing is cheap and my entire family is appreciative that Dad had it all figured out and taken care of before hand.

 

I love you Mom and Dad, miss you more than anything.

[midtennchip]

Tanker, sorry for your loss. I know it is tough. While your advice is great, I would point out a couple of minor things.

1. If a will is written in any manner (such as typed) other than a person's own handwriting, then the will needs to be witnessed. Notarizing is for notarizing the witnesses signatures, not for your signature.

2. There is no reason to "file" a will with a court in Tennessee until the person passes away. The courts do not keep then for just filing purposes.

Otherwise, yes, you are on the money. Wills help the survivors tremendously.

[Guest TankerHC]

Tanker, sorry for your loss. I know it is tough. While your advice is great, I would point out a couple of minor things.

1. If a will is written in any manner (such as typed) other than a person's own handwriting, then the will needs to be witnessed. Notarizing is for notarizing the witnesses signatures, not for your signature.

2. There is no reason to "file" a will with a court in Tennessee until the person passes away. The courts do not keep then for just filing purposes.

Otherwise, yes, you are on the money. Wills help the survivors tremendously.

 

Cant beat that. Free advice from an Attorney.  Thanks for that reply. In MS, when I had my will typed up, I had to file a copy with the Hinds County Court. Have no idea why, the Attorney was the notary and advised me to do it. It was the Funeral Director though who recommended I contact State of MD, since as he mentioned, rules are different concerning disposition of remains, transportation, grave opening (Different not just State to State but Cemetery to Cemetery, and even different between Perpetual Care cemeteries and other cemeteries). 

 

The good thing about the entire thing. I might call the way a business is carried "Professional", but I have never dealt with a business as Professional as this Funeral Home. Walked through the entire thing, every question answered, the Funeral Director even gave me his cell phone number and let me call later in the evening while he was at a Dinner meeting to answer questions. Working through this complicated maze and being kept informed every step of the way made the entire process very easy. A dollar that had to be spent did not get spent unless it was absolutely necessary and I was informed and asked every step, no matter what time of day or night. They do what they are trained to do, but in the end they are still a business, and I have to say, the best business I ever worked with. 

[Luke E.]

  Well 1st off i'm sorry for your loss. I'm not a funeral director but have been involved with the funeral home/cemetery business or more appropriately the "death industry" since I was a little boy. My father worked at a local cemetery when he was here for college and when I was in the 3rd grade he started traveling back and forth from Florida to here and eventually moved us up here when he started running the cemetery. along the same time or a bit before he opened a business pouring precast concrete burial vaults which I worked full time at from a young age while I home schooled at night. He moved into the software side of the industry many years ago and I work for him as my full time (regular) job. What I'm getting at is between growing up around it all and having to help make arrangements for my best friend 3yrs ago and another close friend last year I have been involved from every imaginable angle. Tanker you are right on point, Cremation is not cheap and in some cases can actually be more expensive than a traditional burial so i'd not let that be the deciding factor. As morbid as it might seem, having a plan laid out and recorded in a will is the best thing you can do in fact it is quite selfish not to. Your family members will be in a period of grief and I've seen families that have never had a quarrel between them before, have their 1st one at the worst imaginable time since the whole family dynamic is off kilter at that time. Tanker has laid out a lot of the details here and each one will be painful for your family to deal with at the time.. It doesn't have to be that way, if you have all the decisions made before hand then it's quite easy to delegate a family friend as the go to guy which leaves your family only needed for final approval of some things and that seems to be best. A will, even if it's handwritten on a napkin from Hardees, is something everyone should do for their family members.

[Luke E.]

Cant beat that. Free advice from an Attorney.  Thanks for that reply. In MS, when I had my will typed up, I had to file a copy with the Hinds County Court. Have no idea why, the Attorney was the notary and advised me to do it. It was the Funeral Director though who recommended I contact State of MD, since as he mentioned, rules are different concerning disposition of remains, transportation, grave opening (Different not just State to State but Cemetery to Cemetery, and even different between Perpetual Care cemeteries and other cemeteries). 

 

The good thing about the entire thing. I might call the way a business is carried "Professional", but I have never dealt with a business as Professional as this Funeral Home. Walked through the entire thing, every question answered, the Funeral Director even gave me his cell phone number and let me call later in the evening while he was at a Dinner meeting to answer questions. Working through this complicated maze and being kept informed every step of the way made the entire process very easy. A dollar that had to be spent did not get spent unless it was absolutely necessary and I was informed and asked every step, no matter what time of day or night. They do what they are trained to do, but in the end they are still a business, and I have to say, the best business I ever worked with. 

 

 Sounds like a good one to deal with, there are those that aren't. When you get into Perpetual vs. annual care you all the sudden are needing to understand trusts and when dealing with the loss of family isn't usually the best time to be trying to learn if you don't already know.

[Guest TankerHC]

  Well 1st off i'm sorry for your loss. I'm not a funeral director but have been involved with the funeral home/cemetery business or more appropriately the "death industry" since I was a little boy. My father worked at a local cemetery when he was here for college and when I was in the 3rd grade he started traveling back and forth from Florida to here and eventually moved us up here when he started running the cemetery. along the same time or a bit before he opened a business pouring precast concrete burial vaults which I worked full time at from a young age while I home schooled at night. He moved into the software side of the industry many years ago and I work for him as my full time (regular) job. What I'm getting at is between growing up around it all and having to help make arrangements for my best friend 3yrs ago and another close friend last year I have been involved from every imaginable angle. Tanker you are right on point, Cremation is not cheap and in some cases can actually be more expensive than a traditional burial so i'd not let that be the deciding factor. As morbid as it might seem, having a plan laid out and recorded in a will is the best thing you can do in fact it is quite selfish not to. Your family members will be in a period of grief and I've seen families that have never had a quarrel between them before, have their 1st one at the worst imaginable time since the whole family dynamic is off kilter at that time. Tanker has laid out a lot of the details here and each one will be painful for your family to deal with at the time.. It doesn't have to be that way, if you have all the decisions made before hand then it's quite easy to delegate a family friend as the go to guy which leaves your family only needed for final approval of some things and that seems to be best. A will, even if it's handwritten on a napkin from Hardees, is something everyone should do for their family members.

 

Something else I didn't know. In some States, just spreading ashes on a grave (Human Remains) is not legal. You do have to open the grave if you (Or someone) wants their ashes spread on the family plot. Something to check on I suppose if you decide to just go spreading human remains around. 

[Guest TankerHC]

 Sounds like a good one to deal with, there are those that aren't. When you get into Perpetual vs. annual care you all the sudden are needing to understand trusts and when dealing with the loss of family isn't usually the best time to be trying to learn if you don't already know.

 

My mother will be going into a Niche directly across from her mother. She wanted to be placed on top of her mother, something they agreed to long ago. Couldnt do it. This is something else I ran into. When my grandfather died in 1961 he was buried in the original Family Plot at an Oak Lawn Cemetery. When my grandmother remarried she and my step grandfather purchased two plots that were not in that Plot. She was a co-signer on the grave lot next to my grandfather, but not a co-signer on the one she is buried in next to my step grandfather. They were both previously married and had kids. Because she didnt sign her name on the grave lot paperwork, I would have had to get signatures from all of his kids from the previous marriage to authorize my mother to be put on top of my grandmother, who they are not even related to except by marriage. 

 

One is in Estonia, one is in Canada, and two I have no idea where and have not spoken with any of them in 30 years.

 

So that negated that. Figured I would just call and get it done, nope.  

Edited February 14, 2014 by TankerHC

[runco]

Tanker is 100% correct.  I have done this twice now in the past 13 years, one just 6 weeks ago.  However, one thing he left out, is add in the emotional roller coaster you are on from the loss, while making good business decisions.  I think the cremation cost to the traditional embalming and casket cost is still like 1/3 of the cost.  Still very expensive. 

 

Its hard to shop around for the best bid of three funeral homes, when your loved you is stiff and starting to smell.  And for you small town folks, that have only one funeral home for miles and miles around, you get to pay a little extra.  Principals of supply and demand, and competition apply even to those that handle the stiff.

[peejman]

Sorry for your loss.

 

Good advice... get a will and at least a modest life insurance policy, especially if you have kids.  In TN a will needs to witnessed and notarized to be valid.  If the will isn't valid and the heirs dispute what's in it, you'll end up in court.  And if you think a funeral is expensive...

[Monkeyman2500]

Sorry you've had to go through all this. Your advice is well heeded.

[Dennis1209]

With my brother recently committing suicide with a handgun. He not having life insurance or a will, living in Missouri, being divorced and our parents long deceased. I don't have to imagine what Tanker experienced and it's not over yet.

 

Speaking strictly on my feelings of the event(s) not taking into account the emotional roller coaster. I felt, and still do, how selfish it was for him to decide to take his own life, not have life insurance, not even a will for his assets. Without consideration he made the few of his remaining family members emotionally, legally and financially responsible for his affairs.

 

I can understand if someone can't afford life insurance, I can understand someone up to their eye balls in debt. For what it costs and the time it takes, I can't understand an adult not having a will to simplify the process and know their wishes, assets, copy of military DD 214 if a veteran and other helpful information and documents.

 

The only good thing that came out of the whole affair was, when I got back home I immediately got out my will and reviewed it. It was so outdated I immediately created a new one and had it witnessed and notarized at the Tennessee Farm Bureau for free with additional copies the following day. Mailed a copy to each of my children the same day, as you just never know. That was how important I thought a will is.

 

Sorry for your loss TankerHC and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Dennis1209

[TGO David]

Been there in the past two years.  The will wasn't valid for the reason Chip stated, so all bets were off.  Worse yet, he'd let his life insurance lapse without realizing it so there was no money for anything beyond what was in his 401k, and that took time to gain access to.

 

I'll be blunt:  Don't die an asshole.  Get a will.

 

 

I'm not saying my dad was an asshole for not having a will, but he'd say it if he could.  I'd give anything to hear him be able to.

[Caster]

So sorry for your loss Tanker. Good advice for those of you with families.
If I die before my wife she'll get rid of my junk. If I die after her, well that's one good thing of not having kids or family.

[jtmaze]

I am going through the exact sane thing with my wife's stepdad. No money, and just trying to get people to help out. JTM We the People of the United States, in order to form a more Perfect Union......

[midtennchip]

This is just a bit of free advice.  In Tennessee, and in a number of other states, a "holographic" will is perfectly legal.  A "holographic" will is one that is TOTALLY written in the person's own handwriting (no typing, no fill-in-the-blanks, no printed handwriting, etc.).  The reason a holographic will is legal is because the handwriting can be analyzed and determined whether or not it was written by the testator.  If you do not have a will and need to do it as cheaply as possible, then a holographic will is an option.

 

CAVEAT:  Just because you have a will (of any kind), does not mean that you have set things up properly.  There are certain things that you just cannot do in a will (and have it hold up, anyway), such as cutting your spouse out of the will completely.  Getting the "paper" really isn't what you pay an attorney to do.  You pay for the expertise, the ability to ask the right questions, and the ability to help you figure out how to accomplish what you really desire.  The actual "paper" is only the end result.

[Luke E.]

This is just a bit of free advice.  In Tennessee, and in a number of other states, a "holographic" will is perfectly legal.  A "holographic" will is one that is TOTALLY written in the person's own handwriting (no typing, no fill-in-the-blanks, no printed handwriting, etc.).  The reason a holographic will is legal is because the handwriting can be analyzed and determined whether or not it was written by the testator.  If you do not have a will and need to do it as cheaply as possible, then a holographic will is an option.

 

CAVEAT:  Just because you have a will (of any kind), does not mean that you have set things up properly.  There are certain things that you just cannot do in a will (and have it hold up, anyway), such as cutting your spouse out of the will completely.  Getting the "paper" really isn't what you pay an attorney to do.  You pay for the expertise, the ability to ask the right questions, and the ability to help you figure out how to accomplish what you really desire.  The actual "paper" is only the end result.

 

 Exactly why I mentioned writing it on a Hardees napkin but i'm sure that is something no attorney wants to see coming through his/her door.

[bersaguy]

I made sure I got my Last Will and Testament completed signed and notarized and I have an executor and a back up executor in case the firsts one is unable to carry out my requests. I am giving away everything I want my family members to have while I am alive and I have a Cremation bought and paid for along with the container. Since I am the owner of my own private Family Cemetery my burial will be no issue. I will be buried right next to my Oldest son as my wife is buried on the other side of him. The Cemetery is cared for by a foundation so family is not responsible for upkeep. It is a quite large Cemetery of 4.9 acres and my family all have endowments and plot numbers they have picked out in our family plot section. Upon my death the Cemetery remaining land/property will pass on to the Foundation and all remaining land and plot locations not located in family plot will become the property of the foundation. This is all in writing and is all registered with the county in which the cemetery is located. The Foundation is and will be required to up keep and maintain any and all the ground with in the cemetery for the future in return for it receiving any and all ground and or land beyond the family plot which is also in writing. I made it possible for my family members to be relieved of any and all responsibilities regarding making arrangements for my death. All decisions have been put in writing and witnessed and notarized. I have seen far to many grieving families taken advantage of by Funeral homes and directors and I didn't want my family members to have to make those choices. What if any small amount of actual money that may be left will be split equally between my daughter and my son if they are still living at the time of my death. If only 1 is alive that person will receive what ever money may be left. That is also in the writing of my Will.

      Believe me when I say everyone needs to have a Last Will and Testament and you can even go one step farther as I did and I also have a complete Living Will relieving my family of making any of the hard decisions in the event of any long term illness that may fall upon me requiring hard decisions to be made. They won't be required to make them as I have made the myself.   Just extra food for thought.....................jmho