ATF letter. Do you carry with the gun or leave it at home?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Anyone who has the authority to view your NFA forms would not be interested in a copy. TCA says you shall retain proof of registration but does not say you are required to have it on your person or to provide it to LE. I guess you could redact the serial number of the gun on the form to prevent them from running a check.

 

Now commonsense dictates you keep a copy to keep an overzealous LE officer from hassling you but you are not required to provide them with the form or a copy. I had one officer tell me if he caught me with my legally registered silencer he would seize it and I could get it back from the ATF, I just chuckled. But there are some who will assume that you are in possession of an illegal item and do not want to see your paperwork. Happened to a friend of mine and he was detained at a range until ATF showed up.

 

There are a lot more officers out there that are clueless regarding NFA than there are that actually do know anything about it. I know officers that swear they do not need to do any paperwork to convert their guns to machine guns. They even believe that once they leave LE they are legally allowed to keep their machine guns. I have tried to inform them of the law but according to them I don't know what I am talking about because I am not LE.

 

I made my own 22 can and I am getting ready to build a 30 caliber can when approval comes in. I have had officers tell me it is illegal for any civilian to make or own them.

[Johnny Rotten]

Never been asked for my stamps, even firing FA right next to LE's...oh they were curious just never said or did anything, I did asked if I could handle their FA, just checking roll marks, etc on pre samples...I did get the stink eye from one of them when I placed my ammo can with 30-30rd mags on the table next to him..

[Tempest455]

I carry mine w/ my suppressor and was asked to show it at a range in OH once. Good thing I had it.

[Hozzie]

I carry mine w/ my suppressor and was asked to show it at a range in OH once. Good thing I had it.

 

Asked by range personnel or law enforcement?   I carry my paperwork with me as well, but I sure wouldn't be showing it to some range officer because they decided they are the PoPo for the day.

[Johnny Rotten]

Asked by range personnel or law enforcement?   I carry my paperwork with me as well, but I sure wouldn't be showing it to some range officer because they decided they are the PoPo for the day.

I've heard of a RO wanting a photo copy of your stamp prior to shooting (I think this was an indoor range), if that happen I'd say pound sand and leave.

[Hershmeister]

Their range their rules - chill out guys - if i was a RO i'd want to be sure people are shooting legal NfA items.

[Hozzie]

I mostly agree, but it really isn't their issue. They aren't going to jail for letting you shoot it. I can see no machine guns or some policy like that if their range can't handle it, but if they want my suppressor paperwork, too bad. I guess it's easy to say that because I have plenty of private property to shoot on so it will never be an issue for me. Besides, who in their right mind would take an illegal NFA item to a range? I guess there is always that one guy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KKing]

[quote name="Hershmeister" post="1109777" timestamp="1392229239"]Their range their rules - chill out guys - if i was a RO i'd want to be sure people are shooting legal NfA items.[/quote] Sure, you might want to. Doesn't mean it gives you any legal bearing to do so

[JohnC]

I've heard of a RO wanting a photo copy of your stamp prior to shooting (I think this was an indoor range), if that happen I'd say pound sand and leave.

I'd probably do the same if those rules weren't laid out beforehand. And if they were laid out that I had to show things like that before shooting, I'd probably go elsewhere. :up:

I have a right to my own privacy!

I don't want some clown working at a range asking to see my gun SN#, a tax stamp, or any of that private info.

If you're not a criminal involved in criminal activity or a past crime being investigated, no one should have the right to stop you and ask for such information other than LEO's and it is a warranted search or investigation.

Just IMHO.

[Hershmeister]

[quote name="Hozzie" post="1109778" timestamp="1392229518"]I mostly agree, but it really isn't their issue. They aren't going to jail for letting you shoot it. I can see no machine guns or some policy like that if their range can't handle it, but if they want my suppressor paperwork, too bad. I guess it's easy to say that because I have plenty of private property to shoot on so it will never be an issue for me. Besides, who in their right mind would take an illegal NFA item to a range? I guess there is always that one guy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote] Ive run into one or two idiots with vertical grips on their pistol versions of rifles. And as far as why, would you want to be the range owner and have someone accidentaly hurt someone with an illegal gun - i guarantee you'd be suffering from a civil suit suggesting some liability. You may win, but having good policies is smart business.

[Hozzie]

[quote name="Hershmeister" post="1109830" timestamp="1392235231"]Ive run into one or two idiots with vertical grips on their pistol versions of rifles.And as far as why, would you want to be the range owner and have someone accidentaly hurt someone with an illegal gun - i guarantee you'd be suffering from a civil suit suggesting some liability. You may win, but having good policies is smart business.[/quote] If I was a range owner I wouldn't want anyone to hurt anyone with any gun. I don't expect it to make any difference in a lawsuit, especially since every range I have seen requires a waiver of liability, although we know what that's worth. In the end, they are welcome to ask and I am welcome to go elsewhere if I don't like their rules. I'm ok with that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited February 12, 2014 by Hozzie

[Dolomite_supafly]

The John Sevier range in Knoxville has a no NFA policy that includes suppressors. Some of the RSO's will let you but only if they see your paperwork first. I haven't been back there is several years but if I wanted to shoot my can I would ask the guy in the hut and go from there. That is the place where I had an officer tell me they would seize my suppressor if they seen it.

 

As far as who in their right mind would have an illegal NFA item to a range, I seen it. One of the RSO's at John Sevier duct taped a bottle to the end of a 22 to show everyone. Then when asked he said it was perfectly legal because it was a bottle. There were several kids there who got excited about trying it. It was the same RSO who claimed Lake City brass was so good because it was made in Lake City, Tennessee. He is also the one who scolded a shooter for shooting his 1911 too fast and told the shooter he needed to practice "one shot, one kill" like the RSO did when he was "a sniper 'nam". He went on to try to teach the shooter the techniques for using his 1911 to snipe people. It was laughable and the RSO was serious.

 

There is also a lot of people who have no clue it is illegal to attach a <16" barrel to an AR without registering the lower. Seen that one probably a dozen times now at the shows. I have no clue at the ranges if the ones I see are illegal or not because I just don't ask. The ones at the show I know are because I often ask people if the AR they are carrying around is for sale. When they say yes I ask if it is on a Form 1 or Form 4 only to get the proverbial deer in headlights look. Then when I try to explain they get mad and say it isn't illegal because they bought it from a vendor there.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ive run into one or two idiots with vertical grips on their pistol versions of rifles. And as far as why, would you want to be the range owner and have someone accidentaly hurt someone with an illegal gun - i guarantee you'd be suffering from a civil suit suggesting some liability. You may win, but having good policies is smart business.

If the "pistol" version is over 26" overall length they CAN legally add a VFG. Once it is over 26" it is no longer a "pistol" and is considered a "firearm". And there are no restrictions on a "firearm" as far as adding a VFG.

[Oh Shoot]

If the "pistol" version is over 26" overall length they CAN legally add a VFG. Once it is over 26" it is no longer a "pistol" and is considered a "firearm". And there are no restrictions on a "firearm" as far as adding a VFG.

 

Dol, it's still a pistol over 26", no federal length limit on OAL or barrel length for "handgun". It only becomes a "firearm" when the VFG is added.because it no longer fits the definition of "handgun" (designed to fire with one hand), but neither fits the definition of AOW either due to ATFs somewhat arbitrary past definition of "concealable". Remove the VFG, and it's again a handgun/pistol.,

 

One quirk, if you do indeed conceal such a legally configured "firearm" on your person, then it becomes an AOW while concealed.

 

That's the reason I'm not going to carry or transport my "firearm" as such with VFG attached, as technically the HCP does not cover it, since it is not a "handgun" or "rifle" or "shotgun" in that config.

 

- OS

Edited February 12, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[JohnC]

The John Sevier range in Knoxville has a no NFA policy that includes suppressors.

This made me think of something.

If I owned a range, I'd rather have NFA guys with suppressors. Less noise! :up:

Stupid policy!

[whitewolf001]

This made me think of something.

If I owned a range, I'd rather have NFA guys with suppressors. Less noise! :up:

Stupid policy!

 

No, it's obviously for the good of the community... lmao, you just can't fix idiocy.

Edited February 12, 2014 by whitewolf001

[Oh Shoot]

This made me think of something.

If I owned a range, I'd rather have NFA guys with suppressors. Less noise! :up:

Stupid policy!

 

Yep, silencers are not controlled items in many European countries, and indeed their use is even encouraged just for that reason.

 

The US is still hung up on silencers being a "gangster hit man" thing.

 

- OS

Edited February 12, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[whitewolf001]

Yep, silencers are not controlled items in many European countries, and indeed their use are encouraged just for that reason.

 

The US is still hung up on silencers being a "gangster hit man" thing.

 

- OS

 

^^^This. It's the Hollywood Libtard stigma.

 

Edited February 12, 2014 by whitewolf001

[Dolomite_supafly]

And in most other countries silencers are CHEAP. I have talked to friends in other countries where you can walk out of any sporting goods store with a silencer for cheap. Because they are not regulated a there is a lot of advances being made too. I have seen some rather odd designs that seem to work really, really well made by an average guy in a garage. That can't happen here because of the regulation. Imagine the advances that could be made if anybody could try new things? It would not only benefit us but it would also benefit our military. 99% of the equipment in use in the military today started out as a civilian version first.

[whitewolf001]

Agreed 110% Dolomite, I'd just love to see some Liberals reactions to such talks, their heads would probably explode.

[Tempest455]

Asked by range personnel or law enforcement?   I carry my paperwork with me as well, but I sure wouldn't be showing it to some range officer because they decided they are the PoPo for the day.

 

Range.

 

Agreed it's their range and can ask if they want. Was 5-6 hours from home and did not plan on packing up my stuff and leaving.