The UN Tells Vatican to change doctrine

[partypilot1]

Against the objective good? I think you have been watching too many Michael Moore movies, the Church is credited with starting places for higher learning and hospitals. After the Vikings and many unstable times, monks who generally keep to themselves within the walls thaught farming and other skills to survive. If you are talking about the crusades and the inquisition then maybe you should pick up a history book and learn about them before you say something like "the Church itself has largely been a force against good".

[tnguy]

I was more thinking in terms of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion but there's plenty there.

[RobertNashville]

Pfft. The Catholic church is largely responsible for the malaise that persisted through the middle ages and played a large part in the death of many around that time (and others). I have nothing against those that practice the faith but the church itself has largely been a force against (objective) good.

First of all, I would suggest separating the positions/doctrine of "the church" from what individual MEN have done because one is not equal to the other. While either could be at fault for wrongs; it isn't fair to judge the church for what some men have done nor to judge some men by what the church (the organization) has done.

 

Secondly, off hand I can't think of any organization or collection of people; especially one that's been around as long as the Catholic church, that doesn't have plenty to be ashamed of but there is no reason to overlook the tremendous good that has been done by Catholic's and other Christian variants over the centuries.  Regardless of what one believes about God or organization religion, much of the real charity done in the world since Christ walked the earth has been done in His name by people who believed in his teachings...many if not most of existing humanitarian organizations that exist today trace their roots to Christian sources. Further; most early scientific research and discovery was done in the name of Christ in order to better understand the world around us.

No one is giving a "pass" to what the church has done wrong and there are plenty of examples; most especially when it comes to pedophilia and protection of priests but some here seem to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater (to use a much overused phrase).
 

Also, the UN or anyone connected to it calling out the church for its "sins" makes about as much sense as Planned Parenthood complaining about child abuse or someone who smokes 3 packs of cigarettes a day complaining about the negative health impact of someone who overeats.

 

 

 

PS: If any of the above doesn't make sense then I plead "drug induced dementia" as I'm on some significant pain killers after having broken my leg last Thursday night! :)

[Chucktshoes]

First of all, I would suggest separating the positions/doctrine of "the church" from what individual MEN have done because one is not equal to the other. While either could be at fault for wrongs; it isn't fair to judge the church for what some men have done nor to judge some men by what the church (the organization) has done.

 

Secondly, off hand I can't think of any organization or collection of people; especially one that's been around as long as the Catholic church, that doesn't have plenty to be ashamed of but there is no reason to overlook the tremendous good that has been done by Catholic's and other Christian variants over the centuries.  Regardless of what one believes about God or organization religion, much of the real charity done in the world since Christ walked the earth has been done in His name by people who believed in his teachings...many if not most of existing humanitarian organizations that exist today trace their roots to Christian sources. Further; most early scientific research and discovery was done in the name of Christ in order to better understand the world around us.

No one is giving a "pass" to what the church has done wrong and there are plenty of examples; most especially when it comes to pedophilia and protection of priests but some here seem to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater (to use a much overused phrase).
 

Also, the UN or anyone connected to it calling out the church for its "sins" makes about as much sense as Planned Parenthood complaining about child abuse or someone who smokes 3 packs of cigarettes a day complaining about the negative health impact of someone who overeats.

 

 

 

PS: If any of the above doesn't make sense then I plead "drug induced dementia" as I'm on some significant pain killers after having broken my leg last Thursday night! :)

 

I agree with everything you said 100%, so take that as you wish with regards to the effects of the painkillers on your mental state. :lol:

[RobertNashville]

I agree with everything you said 100%, so take that as you wish with regards to the effects of the painkillers on your mental state. :lol:

I always worry a bit when you agree with me whether I'm drugged or not! :)

[tnguy]

OTOH, the catholic church is a very hierarchical structure with leadership and direction coming from the very top. It's almost the very blueprint for statism and collectivism. I'll leave it at that because I'm really not looking to upset anyone here and I know it's a very personal thing. 

[R_Bert]

One more perspective from the WSJ -

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303650204579372622361332560?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

[R_Bert]

:waiting:  you win.  You are indeed as your predecessors have described, and more.  Are you that insufferable in real life? Go ahead, make one more post so you have the last word in.

[RobertNashville]

One more perspective from the WSJ -

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303650204579372622361332560?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

 

Good article...thanks for referencing it.

I think all that needs to be said about the UN "preaching" to anyone is summed up quite well in this paragraph...

 

"That's rich coming from the U.N., which has still not solved its own festering problems of peacekeeper sex abuse, including the rape of minors. Exposing abusers and holding them to account is a great idea. The Vatican has spent years addressing the scandal of its own past handling of such cases. But the U.N. hardly engages in the transparency it is now promoting."

 

The UN calling for "transparency"; most especially in the areas of child abuse is beyond ridiculous and could be the definition of hypocrisy.

Moreover, pedophilia is no more prevalent among men in the church than in any other area of society - adults using children for sexual gratification is epidemic in all classes, professions, religions, and communities. To single out the Catholic church is ridiculous - the problem and any lack of effective response to the problem is hardly just an issue for the Church; it's part of the widespread decay of society's moral fiber.

Edited February 11, 2014 by RobertNashville