Evolution of My "Firearm"

[Oh Shoot]

So back just before Sandy Hook, I put together a pistol. Nothing high end, J&T complete upper, 10.5" barrel, good JoeBob's BCG.  For about a year, I swapped it back and forth on a PSA lower between rifle and pistol (yes, I used a virgin lower and made it a pistol first). Shot great from the gitgo, ate every ammo fine, good ejection pattern,  lay that tube alongside cheek and let 'er rip:
 

 
 
 
 
So then, kind of replaced this upper in my "kit" with a .22lr rifle upper, so decided to give this baby its own dedicated lower. But now we're in the middle of the panic, and only thing available without paying beau coup is an Omni plastic fantastic from PSA, so I give it that, add a MOE grip, a UTG tac endplate, still using a carbine buffer tube, but tape it in black camo wrap, not to "cripple" it or anything, but just to make it softer and warmer against side of cheek, and since I'm not going back and forth with same lower anymore either. I also went with an H2 buffer, just to see if maybe it makes it a bit less snappy. Maybe it did, I dunno, still runs fine with it, didn't really even seem to change ejection angle:
 

 
It also carried very nicely and discreetly in this gray man case:
 
 

 

 

 

 

Well, then the TGO CMT lower deal comes around, and had to have one of those, so swapped out the lower to it. Actually, the Omni had chipped out a piece of the rear take down detente/spring channel also, and needed to send it in anyway. Then since I'd never had a red dot, saw the great deal on the Vortex StrikeFire, so grabbed that also (though had to send first one back):

 

 

 

 

Well, I get to thinking it would be nice to have a longer buffer tube on it, was thinking of going A2 rifle, but then that was about the time the SIG SB15 got approved, and KAK cranked up their buffer tube production, which is made for the brace, and about 1.5" longer overall, so got the "super" model they just came out with that uses the castle nut:

 

 

 

 

 

And by then I had actually held an AR pistol at range that had the brace on it, was surprised at just how solid it was, whether used over forearm or against shoulder, should you decide to also use it in that way at times,  so went ahead and got one to go with it:

 

 

 

 

 

AND, to top it all off, adding the KAK buffer tube now gave me an overall legal length of over 26" (not counting the flash hider, which is not permanently attached), so could then add a VFG, making the thing currently a legal "firearm", so figgered I'd just take it to the limit, at least for now.

 

 

 

Downsides:

 

- it no longer fits in the tennis racquet case, and is of course significantly heavier than the original config.

 

- And as a fine point of TN carry law, since with the VFG it's not federally classed as a "handgun" or "long gun", not sure I can carry it around loaded, or even have it loaded in vehicle, should push ever come to shove, so we'll see how in love I am with the VFG, or even the SB15 for that matter -- it's definitely a plus for actually anchoring and shooting, but a significant sacrifice to over all bulk.

 

Upsides:

 

- if used as such, rock solid for shoulder fire, gives a 12" length of pull, same as a Cricket rifle or just .5" shorter than a Ruger American Compact.

- also regarding that method, though the KAK tube and SIG brace were about $165 together, bit cheaper than NFA status, no wait, and no hassles about possession, ownership, selling, crossing state lines, not to mention that being on an actual firearm registration list sorta sticks in my craw.

 

- OS

Edited March 23, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[jcoosi]

Looks good. I love my sig brace.

[peejman]

Cool.  AR pistols still look strange to me with the buffer tube exposed, but if it works for you... :up:

[TrickyNicky]

I finally got a chance to check out a brace in person the other day. It is much more rigid and stable than I had guessed it would be based on pics. The cheek weld is a nice feature for an arm brace IMO.

I have to give one of these a try on an actuall pistol before spending the money, but its a more viable option now in my eyes than it was before I had a chance to check one out.

The length of pull still seems too short, but according to Oh Shoot it might fall into an acceptable range for me.


Now when do they come out with an FDE model?

[JPS]

I built my AR pistol without the SIG brace, but I'm kinda second-guessing that decision now..  I may look at picking up the brace and a buffer tube that will work with it and making the change.

[gunwhatgun]

So I'm confused, don't you just have a pistol with a VFG? I know you are over 26" oral, but why does that not make it a SBR? Is it because of the brace?

[Lumber_Jack]

[quote name="gunwhatgun" post="1106235" timestamp="1391560308"]So I'm confused, don't you just have a pistol with a VFG? I know you are over 26" oral, but why does that not make it a SBR? Is it because of the brace?[/quote] It's because the ATF classifies it as a "firearm" if it's over 26" but does not have a stock. And the ATF has sent a letter that says "firearms" can have VFG So it's neither a pistol or rifle. It's a tweener Edited February 5, 2014 by Lumber_Jack

[Oh Shoot]

It's because the ATF classifies it as a "firearm" if it's over 26" but does not have a stock. And the ATF has sent a letter that says "firearms" can have VFG So it's neither a pistol or rifle. It's a tweener

 

Well, technically it's still a handgun/pistol at 26" or more (there are no barrel or over all length limits on a handgun federally),  but the VFG makes it a "firearm", because it's no longer designed to be shot with one hand, but doesn't fit the classification of AOW either at 26" or more. So it's only a "firearm" until you take the VFG off, then it's magically a pistol again.

 

And GunWhatGun, it can't be an SBR because it has no stock on it, since BATF has said the SIG brace is not one.

 

- OS

Edited February 5, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[runco]

I have never had a desire for a AR style pistol, however reading OS's evolution, it sort of grows on me.  Uh oh!

 

ARs are truly just fun to play with w/o pulling the trigger!  Truly the masculine version of playing with Barbies I suppose.

[peejman]

I'm waiting on the slide fire version of the SIG brace.  ;)

[Erik88]

You have my attention here Mac. I may give you a call because I have a ton of questions.

[Oh Shoot]

You have my attention here Mac. I may give you a call because I have a ton of questions.

 

Any ole time, whippersnapper. :)

[Oh Shoot]

....Now when do they come out with an FDE model?

 

Tada!

 

http://www.rockwellarms.com/Store/ProductDetails/Sig-Sauer-SB15-Pistol-Stabilizing-Brace-Kit-Black-PSB-KIT-FDE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- OS

Edited February 6, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[swim615]

Man that thing looks sharp. :cool:   I have got to get me one. :yum:

[Oh Shoot]

Additional note: if I decide I like shooting it with the VFG more than without it, gonna make it quick detach, so I can still transport and carry it as a loaded pistol, just to be totally clear cut on that legal point, however remote the possibility that issue might actually arise.

 

- OS

Edited February 6, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[TMF]

Well, technically it's still a handgun/pistol at 26" or more (there are no barrel or over all length limits on a handgun federally),  but the VFG makes it a "firearm", because it's no longer designed to be shot with one hand, but doesn't fit the classification of AOW either at 26" or more. So it's only a "firearm" until you take the VFG off, then it's magically a pistol again.

 

Does this mean you wouldn't be able to have it in your vehicle, stored with ammo and empty chamber, the manner in which it is legal to have a rifle for HCP holders?

 

You could go with an AFG to keep it a pistol.  It's a good compromise, and a little nicer than just the handguard.

 

ETA: You now have my interest on this.  I like being able to keep it a pistol so it is legal to have loaded, especially for camping, hiking and such.  My current rifle caliber pistol fits nicely in a hiking pack I carry.  It would be great to have the added stability of this and be able to carry with ammo.  This may be the project for my recently bastardized lower which was dethroned by my TGO lower.

Edited February 6, 2014 by TMF

[Oh Shoot]

Does this mean you wouldn't be able to have it in your vehicle, stored with ammo and empty chamber, the manner in which it is legal to have a rifle for HCP holders?

 

Yeah, as I opined in original post, the statutes only mention "handgun", "rifle", and "shotgun" for the various HCP privileges, so a "firearm" that is none of the above just doesn't seem to be covered, since TN accedes to federal stuff on matters like that. AFAIK, the only thing TN differs with federal stuff on firearm config is that TN defines "handgun" as having barrel of less than 12" -- of course there's no charge for having one of 12" or more, but seems clear it wouldn't be allowed either, since it's none of the above either.

 

You could go with an AFG to keep it a pistol.  It's a good compromise, and a little nicer than just the handguard.

 

Really don't like it much at all, prefer plain handguard to it. Not sure yet I'm gonna love the VFG either, haven't shot it. I don't care for it on rifle, but with this short config, it really feels ergonomic and practical, we'll see.

 

As I said above, though, if I want to do it, a QD would work best seems, carry or transport as a pistol, shoot as a "firearm". I guess if I needed to fire it in a hurry, I could make do without the VFG briefly. :)

 

- OS

Edited February 6, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Stainless]

How does it shoot with the brace as a pistol? Is it legal to fire on the shoulder like a rifle?

[Oh Shoot]

How does it shoot with the brace as a pistol? Is it legal to fire on the shoulder like a rifle?

 

Is it legal to fire a Glock from your shoulder, or a rifle from your hip? :)

 

Reckon this guy breaks the law shooting his 1911 with his feet?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlMz2sCDCA4

 

- OS

[KKing]

[quote name="Stainless" post="1108499" timestamp="1391984306"]How does it shoot with the brace as a pistol? Is it legal to fire on the shoulder like a rifle?[/quote] Of course. The legality doesn't come from where the firearm is fired from

[KaNuckles]

AR "pistols" are supremely cool. Very nice.

[Oh Shoot]

Ok, final config (maybe) :)

 

Changed to MOE handguard and made VFG quick detach with a .5" QD riser, a lot cheaper than going with a good QD grip like Tango Down or something:

 

 

- OS