Trust Bank Account

[Jeremy725]

I recently setup my trust and was trying to setup an account to pay for my stamps.  The problem is my normal credit union is giving me problems about setting up the account.  They told me their lawyers needed to review the trust before they could do it.  Has anyone else run into something like this and if so how do you remedy the problem?  I am leery of setting up an internet account as suggested by my attorney for this problem.

[Hozzie]

You don't have to have a bank account.  Just get Money Orders and make the pay from your trust name.  You can get a bank account, but it isn't required.

[Jeremy725]

The reason I was going to setup an account was so I could file my form 1 or 4 on efile.

[mcordell]

The reason I was going to setup an account was so I could file my form 1 or 4 on efile.

You can efile without setting up an account in the trusts name ... Pretty sure you can use your personal account... Is that not right? Because that's what my buddy did

[John Wells]

The reasoning behind using an account in the name if the trust is so there is no question that your NFA item has always been in the name of the trust. Whoever prepared your trust should be able to provide you with a certification of your trust that the bank should accept. Even if it's not required to have a trust account to e-file, I think it's the best practice.

[jaysouth]

You need a smarter bank.  I do not have any NFA trusts, but a trust is a trust.  I have trusts that own real estate and other assets.  As needed, I apply for employer ID numbers and open bank accounts.  My bank only asks for a copy of the trust indenture and the EIN before opening an account.  

 

Personally, I would have a bank account for your trust to preserve the legal fiction that the trust and it's bank account and other assets are a distinct entity that is not you.  I would find a friendly bank where you could leave a hundred bucks in the account and not be charged monthly fees.

[Capbyrd]

The reasoning behind using an account in the name if the trust is so there is no question that your NFA item has always been in the name of the trust. Whoever prepared your trust should be able to provide you with a certification of your trust that the bank should accept. Even if it's not required to have a trust account to e-file, I think it's the best practice.

 

 

With the certification of trust, I was able to get mine setup.  It took longer than normal as I was using a small bank and they had never done it before.  But within a few hours, I was up and running. 

[rdbse]

My trust was set up by a lawyer. The actual trust does have specific NFA language. When I set up my trust bank account with ING Direct (now CapitalOne), all they asked for is the Certification of Trust. The certification does does not reference any NFA language.

 

I can see how a bank might be cautious if your documents or trust name reference anything NFA.

[Rock Nova]

Just curious which banks you guys are using (the ones with trust bank accounts). I just got my trust done by Chip and the bank I use for everything else doesn't seem to offer anything that isn't going to bleed my account dry with charges if I don't keep a decent balance or require more monthly transactions than I plan on making.

 

I'm just looking for a place to park a small amount and leave it until it is time to use it, then transfer more money in to cover whatever I'm purchasing.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I called the ATF yesterday to ask about how to pay for eFiling and they said it did not matter who or how it was paid as long as it was paid. I asked about using my personal credit card and they said it was fine so I am using my personal credit card and I am NOT opening a trust bank account. And honestly if the account is setup to draw interest then you have to worry about filing taxes on behalf of the trust which would probably add all kinds of CPA costs.

 

YOU DO NOT NEED A TRUST BANK ACCOUNT.

[Rock Nova]

You asked about paying for the tax stamp (or it seems that way from your wording). I'm more concerned with paying for the actual NFA item. Should they decide to go back and look at NFA transfers into trusts and they see payment made from an individual's personal credit/debit card instead of from an account in a trust's name, it seems the door is left open for them to come after that item. I just don't think I trust them enough to not do that at this point.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Rock Nova

[Rock Nova]

You can buy any item as an individual then transfer the item into the trust. Now if that item is an NFA item you will have to pay for another transfer fee to move it into the trust. I am in that boat now. I have several NFA items under my personal name that I built myself. I will have to sell them to the trust and then another $200 will have to be paid to transfer them into the trust property.

 

It is NOT legal to transfer a personal NFA item into a trust without paying the transfer tax even if you are a trustee in the trust.

True. Which is why it makes sense to me to have a bank account for the trust. So you don't have to pay $400 in stamps for the same item. The item transfers straight into the trust the first time around.

 

Edit to expand on this:

If you submit the original Form 1 or 4 as a trust, but pay from a personal account, if the ATF decides to scrutinize these more closely, the paper trail says the NFA item was purchased by "Dolomite_supafly" instead of "Dolomite_supafly Trust" when the transfer they approved was for Dolomite_supaly Trust. See where things get murky if not using a trust bank account?

Edited August 5, 2014 by Rock Nova

[Capbyrd]

True. Which is why it makes sense to me to have a bank account for the trust. So you don't have to pay $400 in stamps for the same item. The item transfers straight into the trust the first time around.

 

Edit to expand on this:

If you submit the original Form 1 or 4 as a trust, but pay from a personal account, if the ATF decides to scrutinize these more closely, the paper trail says the NFA item was purchased by "Dolomite_supafly" instead of "Dolomite_supafly Trust" when the transfer they approved was for Dolomite_supaly Trust. See where things get murky if not using a trust bank account?

 

 

That's like saying that if you pay for the stamp from a joint account things can get murky.  The ATF doesn't care where the money comes from.  

[Oh Shoot]

That's like saying that if you pay for the stamp from a joint account things can get murky.  The ATF doesn't care where the money comes from.  

 

Main thing is, what law could you possibly be breaking by doing it? Hell, does it even matter if somebody else pays the actual tab?

 

- OS

[Rock Nova]

That's like saying that if you pay for the stamp from a joint account things can get murky.  The ATF doesn't care where the money comes from.  

 

I think paying for the stamp (which from my understanding is viewed the same way as a tax return - no one cares where the money comes from as long as it is paid) and paying for the actual NFA item are two distinct transactions.

 

Also, didn't I see above where you have a trust bank account? If the ATF doesn't care, then why do you have a separate bank account for your trust? Not trying to be a smart ass, just curious.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Rock Nova

[Capbyrd]

I do have a trust account that I use.  But I also enjoy playing devil's advocate.  

[Dolomite_supafly]

I won't have a trust bank account and I will pay for any items I buy, or transfer, using my personal funding and not a trust account.

 

If a silencer is paid for and transferred to a dealer it does not matter who paid the silencer maker. When the item is transferred from the dealer to the trust the ATF does not care who pays, I called and asked. And when it is transferred from the manufacturer to the dealer it is technically not the trust property yet so it doesn't matter who paid for it.

[John Wells]

The trust bank account is usually set up so that any interest earned would pass to you personally. A trust tax filing should not be necessary. I maintain that it makes a much clearer paper trail if you set up a trust checking account and use it to pay for any NFA related expenses. Whether or not the ATF says it's necessary, I think it's the best practice. If you're having problems with a credit union, I'd suggest asking what they need specifically and only providing them with that information. The certification of your trust with a beneficiary named should be sufficient.

[Capbyrd]

^ He setup my trust and I trust (get it?) his opinion so I just do what he says!

Thanks John. Haha

[Dolomite_supafly]

eFile will not accept a check or checking account information. They will only accept a credit card and according to the ATF they do not care who pays. For me adding a trust account is just added complexity to my life.

[Lumber_Jack]

My form 4 tax was paid by my dealer. The system was slow so I just have him my trust docs and he emailed me when it was complete.

[midtennchip]

Rock Nova, give me a call next week (when I am back in the office) and I'll walk you through it.

[Rock Nova]

Rock Nova, give me a call next week (when I am back in the office) and I'll walk you through it.

 

Will do. Thanks Chip.

[Jeremy725]

Update: My first stamps were form 1's that were efiled and I ended up using my personal account to pay the taxes.  Since then I just started using money orders (paper form 4's) from the post office to take care of both the tax stamp and cans I had bought.  The credit union was such a hassle I told them to forget about it,  I also went to a local bank and the fees, minimum amounts were also crazy.