Park Carry Bill SB 1496 goes before Committee Tuesday Jan 28th

[No_0ne]

So what exactly does that mean in non-political aka lawyer speak?

 

If he tells you, he has to kill you ...

[EastTNMarksman]

Our friend Chairman Jim Coley (House Subcommittee-Civil Justice) rolled HB1407 to a "later date for a firearms calendar".  Hmmm.

 

I hope that doesn't mean anything bad for this bill. I really want to see this one go through this year. I've been emailing and calling all the Reps/Senators involved like crazy.

[GKar]

It likely means Coley/Harwell ( and you can bet dollars to donuts that Harwell has Haslam's back on this one) haven't mustered enough opposition to this one yet to kill it, or to modify it to re-instate some level of "local control"...they need more time to let the media run with the "Big Four Mayors'" objections.

[Worriedman]

I suspect that GKar is on point.

 

The thing I find curious is that Coley is a Prime co-sponsor of the bill, and that is troubling in and of itself.  I have personally watched as he stabbed Campus Carry in the back when Andy Holt ran the bill, it was one of my first up close and personal views of deceit in government.  they called Holt on his cell, when the stepped outside to take the call, Coley sent his bill to Summer Study, and never even told him they had killed it, let him sit the rest of the committee hearing to find out that they had shanked him.

[Sky King]

I suspect that GKar is on point.

 

The thing I find curious is that Coley is a Prime co-sponsor of the bill, and that is troubling in and of itself.  I have personally watched as he stabbed Campus Carry in the back when Andy Holt ran the bill, it was one of my first up close and personal views of deceit in government.  they called Holt on his cell, when the stepped outside to take the call, Coley sent his bill to Summer Study, and never even told him they had killed it, let him sit the rest of the committee hearing to find out that they had shanked him.

 

Well such behavior is not uncommon when it comes to the General Assembly and personal ambition.  Remember Mike Faulk?  He was the prime sponsor of Safe Commute in the Senate two years ago,  Got it out of all the committees only to kill it in the very committee HE CHAIRED.  Now in hind sight we all know why.  In bowing to Ramsey and Haslam, he was rewarded with a judgeship upon leaving the General Assembly.    I guess the rewards are good for a person willing to totally submarine his own bill.

[JohnC]

I suspect that GKar is on point.
 
The thing I find curious is that Coley is a Prime co-sponsor of the bill, and that is troubling in and of itself.  I have personally watched as he stabbed Campus Carry in the back when Andy Holt ran the bill, it was one of my first up close and personal views of deceit in government.  they called Holt on his cell, when the stepped outside to take the call, Coley sent his bill to Summer Study, and never even told him they had killed it, let him sit the rest of the committee hearing to find out that they had shanked him.

Ugh! Pisses me off!

I want campus carry, too!

I actually did my last speech (persuasive) on campus carry last semester in a public speaking class. I think a lot of students were in shock, though. Probably never knew by looking at me that I was a pro-gun libertarian. :lol:

[EastTNMarksman]

There's an article in the Tennessean today about this: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20140207/NEWS02/302070096/1972/NEWS02

 

It sounds really encouraging.

[Worriedman]

There's an article in the Tennessean today about this: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20140207/NEWS02/302070096/1972/NEWS02

 

It sounds really encouraging.

Do not believe a thing that woman says about being for a gun bill.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Worriedman

[300winmag]

We need to focus on this heavily because the penalty for someone, even with a handgun carry permit, is a Class A Misdemeanor.  There is no logical reason that someone with a handgun carry permit should have to worry about a high level misdemeanor when carrying a handgun for protection.

[Oh Shoot]

We need to focus on this heavily because the penalty for someone, even with a handgun carry permit, is a Class A Misdemeanor.  There is no logical reason that someone with a handgun carry permit should have to worry about a high level misdemeanor when carrying a handgun for protection.

 

Yep. The only other possible state offense for mere permit carry is Class B with fine only, equally stupid, but less severe. The Class A for park carry is ridiculous, especially since there is such a jumble of parks across the state, some allowing carry,some not, some poorly posted that forbid it, some that don't even require posting due to grandfathered ordinances, etc. Hell, there are greenways here in Knoxville that go in and out of carry and non-carry areas traveling the same frigging direction, and none of them even marked at all for example!

 

Though "ignorance of the law being no excuse" being often cited, it's not like there is one simple law to be ignorant of and it's positively unjust on the face of it.

 

- OS

[EastTNMarksman]

Got this from the NRA today:

Tomorrow, the Tennessee Senate is scheduled to consider Senate Bill 1496, legislation which seeks to prevent municipalities from passing and enforcing ordinances that ban the carrying of firearms in city, county and municipal parks. Please contact your state Senator TODAY and respectfully urge him or her to support SB 1496.

 

 

 

Go here and enter your address to get the contact info for your senators.

[Oh Shoot]

 

Got this from the NRA today:

 

 

Go here and enter your address to get the contact info for your senators.

 

 

Stacey is mine, I assume he's for it. :)  I'll need to hit on my Dem Rep though for the House vote, good luck I guess, I'm sure it's for the children for her not to support it.

 

- OS

Edited February 13, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[EastTNMarksman]

Got this from my senator, Becky Massey just now:

Thanks for contacting me and sending me thoughts on this legislation.  This bill was voted on and passed on the Senate Floor this morning.  I voted in favor of the legislation.

 

 

[Worriedman]

Bill was amended to keep the original TCA 39-17-1309 language, which means, it there is school function in the park, it is off limits whether the permit holder is informed or not, said permit holder is guilty of a Class E felony.  Our good friend Kelsey.

[macville]

Bill was amended to keep the original TCA 39-17-1309 language, which means, it there is school function in the park, it is off limits whether the permit holder is informed or not, said permit holder is guilty of a Class E felony.  Our good friend Kelsey.

 

The good thing is it's very unlikely to hold up to a court challenge. We really need to sue over the fact that school carry restrictions are unconstitutional due to that preventing can not be proven to prevent crime. If we've gone out of our way to prove we are not criminals by getting permits, then it can't be assumed that preventing us from carrying at a school is going to prevent any crime.

[dawgdoc]

When you say "we need to sue," is there an organization that actually represents Tennessee gun owners that would challenge the constitutionality of a new law?  Because being penalized for being in a place that does not become prohibited until a school group shows up seems to be really insanely stupid and unconstitutional.  It literally seems like a trap to capture innocent gun toters.  

 

From what I understood from another thread, anywhere a school group shows up becomes a "school function" and prohibited, correct?  With laws like this, it's no wonder that I trusted my instinct to carry concealed when in Tennessee even before I started coming to this board.  I had thought that I had a good handle on the Tennessee carry laws, but it's things like this that throw me for a loop.  It's almost like the government doesn't want people to actually exercise their rights.   :lol:

[300winmag]

Yes, I can see how requiring permits can be a way to prevent crime because only eligible people are issued permits.  I don't see how the state preventing those with permits from carrying in schools or places where there are certain signs prevents crime.

 

I would not carry openly in this state because of the goofy school event law that even applies to people with permits.  How are we to know where there is a school event in public?  At least if there is a school event and your handgun is concealed, you probably would avoid problems.

 

You have to understand that most politicians do not want people carrying guns, but they want to be endorsed by the NRA at the same time.  Go to the statehouse in Nashville and you will see how there is dislike for guns when you can't carry in the statehouse.  If there were not any 'no guns' signs at the statehouse, you could legally carry inside with a permit.  That shows how much distrust there is.

Edited February 13, 2014 by 300winmag

[dawgdoc]

When I first started coming here, I noticed that compared to GeorgiaPacking, there seemed to be less open-carry advocates.  My behavior has been altered by Tennessee law.  In Georgia, I often use an OWB hoslter that is covered by a shirt or jacket.  In Tennessee, I am much more likely to use my Remora because an LC9 is virtually invisible (short of doing a handstand).  I started doing that just because of the sign law; the school event thing just one more nail in the coffin for open carry.  Not that I mind open carry; I just won't be doing it much myself.

 

In Georgia, the government doesn't trust us to carry in church, but all parks are ok, although I have seen debate about a similar school function wording (the park does not become off-limits, but you can't be part of the school group that is there).  In Tennessee, they think we will shoot up the parks, but churches are just fine.  Instead of looking toward their neighbor and seeing that it's not the Wild West or "blood running in the streets" and change their laws accordingly, each state strives to keep what is off-limit as the status quo.  

 

The anti's down here act like we are extreme for wanting to protect ourselves in church, even though our closet neighboring states haven't had any problem.  Likewise, they proclaim that if Tennessee allows carrying in their parks, there will be constant gun fights, even though I am willing to be that the illegal gun use in parks is probably not much different in each state.  It belies the anti-gun movement's true motive to restrict guns from as many places as possible rather than being concerned about their particular church or park.

[JayC]

In all fairness it's just a single person preventing carry at the state house...  Beth Harwell...  she could place her signature on a letter and tomorrow we'd legally be able to carry there.

 

Yes, I can see how requiring permits can be a way to prevent crime because only eligible people are issued permits.  I don't see how the state preventing those with permits from carrying in schools or places where there are certain signs prevents crime.

 

I would not carry openly in this state because of the goofy school event law that even applies to people with permits.  How are we to know where there is a school event in public?  At least if there is a school event and your handgun is concealed, you probably would avoid problems.

 

You have to understand that most politicians do not want people carrying guns, but they want to be endorsed by the NRA at the same time.  Go to the statehouse in Nashville and you will see how there is dislike for guns when you can't carry in the statehouse.  If there were not any 'no guns' signs at the statehouse, you could legally carry inside with a permit.  That shows how much distrust there is.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Yes, I can see how requiring permits can be a way to prevent crime because only eligible people are issued permits.  ...

 

Which decreases the number of ineligible people carrying just how?

 

- OS

[Sky King]

I read in the Memphis paper today that the Tennessee  Senate did pass the parks carry bill.  BUT the article made referances to what Beth Harwell indicated could be included in the House version.  It appears that the House version could include a provision to exclude any park that was used as a childrens playground. 

 

The problem with that is two fold.  First, how is a person, especially a visitor to a given area supposed to know if a park has or is being used as a childrens playground.  I know of one park in Memphis that you can not see into the park from the entrance.  The entrance to Kennedy Park off Raleigh LaGrange Road has a hill and a curve which blocks any view of the park from the road. 

 

Next, the law passed did not provide for any "opt out" for any STATE parks.  BUT if this provision is included, it could, depending on how it is written, immediately make any state park  with a playground in it, off limits.  Meeman Shelby Forest in Shelby County is huge and has several playgrounds in it.

 

We all need to be contacting our House representatives to oppose any such provision.

[EastTNMarksman]

I read in the Memphis paper today that the Tennessee  Senate did pass the parks carry bill.  BUT the article made referances to what Beth Harwell indicated could be included in the House version.  It appears that the House version could include a provision to exclude any park that was used as a childrens playground. 

 

The problem with that is two fold.  First, how is a person, especially a visitor to a given area supposed to know if a park has or is being used as a childrens playground.  I know of one park in Memphis that you can not see into the park from the entrance.  The entrance to Kennedy Park off Raleigh LaGrange Road has a hill and a curve which blocks any view of the park from the road. 

 

Next, the law passed did not provide for any "opt out" for any STATE parks.  BUT if this provision is included, it could, depending on how it is written, immediately make any state park  with a playground in it, off limits.  Meeman Shelby Forest in Shelby County is huge and has several playgrounds in it.

 

We all need to be contacting our House representatives to oppose any such provision.

Well that sucks because currently all state parks are good to go, it's just the city/county parks that are opting out that are an issue.

[Oh Shoot]

Thing is so muddled now,  not sure what to tell any of them exactly what to support.

 

- OS

Edited February 15, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[Randall53]

The big prints gives, then the small print takes away. Fench straddlers...all of them.

[EastTNMarksman]

Thing is so muddled now,  not sure what to tell any of them exactly what to support.

 

- OS

 

I got an email today from the NRA about current TN legislation and they are still supporting this bill. It would be nice if the TFA could comment on the amendments being proposed, hopefully they will make a statement on it soon. Right now the only step backwards I'm hearing would be the playground thing that would screw up some parks, but as far as I know that is more of a rumor than any sort of actual amendment at this point (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

The amendment regarding school functions sucks, but it's identical to what current law is, so at least it's not a step backwards. If this can pass without getting something added that prohibits carry in all parks that contain playgrounds then it would still be an improvement over the current situation.