Cash For Clunkers campaign

[bersaguy]

The person who calculated this bit of information is now, and has been a professor at the

            University of West Virginia in Morgantown for the last forty some years.

              He says that:

             A  clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.

            A new vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons of gas a year.

           So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction reduced gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.

             The  government claims 700,000 clunkers were replaced so that is 224 million gallons saved per year.

            That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.

            5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.

             More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $90 per barrel costs about $450 million dollars.
 

[Jonnin]

This was a 3 billion $$ program, mind you, in 2009. 

Each year, by your numbers, it saved $450M and enters its 5th year soon.  So in 5 years, it has saved $2.25B.   In 10 years, if prices do not increase, 4.5B --- more than the initial input. 

 

If each car was replaced by an average vehicle of 10k price tag, that was a $7B  spike to the car industry in sales.

 

All in all, I am not sure the program was a complete failure.   Not a fan of it (wasteful, those cars could have been used for something) but given the abject failure of most govt programs, this one was not at the bottom of the barrel. 

[Caster]

What was wasteful and absolutely STUPID was the engines and transmissions being destroyed.  THey wanted them off the road permanently but they destroyed millions of dollars worth of parts that working class people could have used to survive.  Go find a good used engine nowadays.  Not as easy as it once was.  Certainly not as cheap.  They wanted these vehicles permanently disabled but ALL THEY HAD TO DO was put the VIN number in the DMV computer database as NOT REGISTRABLE.  Destroying a perfectly fine running engine only shows what a bunch of retarded morons our governing elect really are.  

[Jonnin]

well, if the goal is to get a gas guzzling engine off the road, selling the engine is fail.   But the rest of the car can be used for parts, and should be.  I suppose the engine could be more efficient in a different frame, I dunno --- efficiency depends on a ton of variables, frame weight, aerodynamics, transmission,  condition (worn out stuff uses more), and a bunch more.  

 

 

Even if the engine was the problem, it still has usable parts in it.   They wanted to make work for people, why not make work tearing these cars down to the nuts and bolts, create a few jobs, salvage the good from them, etc.    But that takes too much common sense.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Jonnin

[BrasilNuts]

Reminds me of the animated film Robots.

"Why be you when you can be new?"

[austin7.62]

Such a waste.

[frankmako]

it took a lot of good used cars out of the market.  now all used cars are priced high because of this.  all it did was hurt the common man by taking more money out of his pocket when he need a used car.  just another way the government is bring down the middle class to the level of the low information voter.  before it is all over there will be "the haves" and the "have not".  i can here the dems saying "let them eat cake". 

[Mark A]

The math on the energy equation will never work. You can't peg it just to gas mileage. It takes a ton of new energy to get the raw materials and produce cars which are then transported to their various destinations. I seriously doubt the math would work if all the new cars sold got 100 mpg.

 

It was a total waste of money, destroyed the used car market (which is easily still feeling the ramifications today) and hurt the people on the lowest end of the economic side of things

[EMB145]

I agree cash for clunkers was a waste, not only of time, money, resources, but a good place for us common folks to get parts. I have a 2003 Hyundai Elantra.....wrecked it in the rain going down a hill.  I did not scrap the car as everyone told me to do. I stripped it down, all interior came out, fabricated new brake lines, new timing belt, water pump, clutch, front bumper cover  ect...found alot of parts in the scrap yard that I needed.....door weatherstripping and small stuff.

 

Had a fresh coat of paint put on and took my time putting it back together. It almost looked like it came straight from the factory when I was done.

 

I have a bunch of parts in my attic for this car, headlights, tail lights, windows, switches and just boxes of misc stuff. I will never sell this car as I know it means nothing to anyone except me. Its not a hot rod nor a show car, but I drive it everyday and have the resources to obtain parts and keep it as new running/looking as possible. I have a plethora of parts in the attic and I intend to drive this thing until I simply cannot find parts to maintain it.

 

Cash for clunkers took this away from many people.

[bersaguy]

Well, I will give you just a little insight on the older cars that probably a few already know. Back in 1989 the EPA sent some of their( so called) smart people to Nashville to see how we were doing with our new emissions tests and going around to different repair locations to see how many had purchased 2 gas and 3 gas analyzers to set emissions on cars prior to testing at one of their centers. The boss sent them out to talk with me on purpose because he knew how much I hated EPA and their programs. They were doing all this bragging about how all of the new emissions products being place on the new cars was cutting down on air pollution and I told them they where so full of crap that their eyes were brown and I could prove it. They challenged me on proving it. Big mistake. At the time I was driving my 1956 Chevy to work. It had a 327/ 375 Fueler with twin 650 dual pumpers on it. Hooker headers, Iskindiarian Roller cam pre-advanced 4 degrees and twin roller Timing chain and 11.1 compression pistons with 3 angle cut valves and adjustable roller rockers. Hot rodders will understand all of that but anyway a really fast car. I asked them what they were driving and they had rented a 1989 Lincoln at the airport. I told them my 56 chevy would burn cleaner and provide less emissions then their 1989 Lincoln. They bet me lunch it wouldn't and I said lunch for every at the shop verses all 4 of them. They took the bet and we both headed to their testing center in Melrose about 8 miles from the shop. I pulled in one side and their driver pulled in the other and both cars got tested. When we got back to the shop we all including my boss looked at the test sheets. The Lincolns readings were with in range  with CO at 1.3 and HC at 2.6. Then they looked at my reading on my 56..   CO  .01     and HC .076. They could not believe it and they asked me how I did that. I explained to them that when the EPA put lower compression restrictions on the engines they automatically raise the carbon emissions. If they really wanted to fix the problem all they had to do was tell the auto companies to raise the compression ratio of their engines that was 9 and they moved it back to 8 to meet the new EPA requirements. They should have went up to 10.1 to1 but went the wrong way. Needless to say they bought Wendys for 11 people at the shop and left. Oh yea about 2009 the compression on most all car and truck engines did go to 10.1.1 to assist in emissions control. If any of you ever get the opportunity to get near a NASCAR race car or dragster while it is setting idling put your hand down near the opening of the exhaust pipes and you will be surprised. You will feel cold air coming out of the exhaust. Cold air means all of or at least 99% of the fuel is being burned in the combustion and no wasted fuel (emissions) is coming from the exhaust. If it is hot air the engine is not going to perform as it should because the power the engine gets is from maximum burn with in the combustion chambers of the engine.   Sorry for the long post...... :ugh:  :ugh: 

[BigK]

Interesting stuff there, Bersaguy.

 

Who'd have thought an appointed gov't worker was less of an expert on their specialty than an average joe? </sarcasm>

[austin7.62]

I can here the dems saying "let them eat cake".

Yes, showing how out of touch they are with the common man.

Nice Marie Antoinette reference too lol.

[whitewolf001]

It was a good steroid booster for the economy, do you realize how much it increased sales alone in dealerships? I work in one and can tell foot traffic alone increased by 300%.

[ironsniper1]

i have been searching for a couple of months now for a decent running car for about 2k and under and cant find anything, according to kbb some of the ones i have looked at should be within this range but people are asking about 3k-4k for them and it makes me mad because i dont work full time and only do contract work so i dont make enough for a car payment and trying to save is hard when i have 60k worth of school loans

[bersaguy]

Interesting stuff there, Bersaguy.

 

Who'd have thought an appointed gov't worker was less of an expert on their specialty than an average joe? </sarcasm>

 

I guess that is why directly after buying every ones lunch they left without saying anything another word but he did request as one of his associates was taking orders for lunch if he could keep both emissions reports to take back to Washington. I told him yep, I didn't have anything to hide...... :rock: I just worked on cars for 35 years and knew what it took to make them fast and efficient. Some time I will tell yall what I learned about the unleaded fuel when ethanol is added and what is does to fuel mileage in some older and all newer cars......... :squint:  :squint:  :squint: 

[Dustbuster]

Legalized book cooking did nothing but make the rich richer. Most of our good stuff legit and stolen gets exported for top dollar. In a few places in the Middle East you can't buy a vehicle over 10 yrs old. Doesn't mean u can't have one,they just want an infusion of newer stuff with no regard for fuel economy Edited January 25, 2014 by Dustbuster

[runco]

I recollect the stated reason for the program was to jump start the detroit 3 OEMs sales.  However, many OEMs benefited from it.  It did as I remember drive up used car sales though, because less of the used cars were available.  The cash for clunkers had to be destroyed.  I agree it was a waste.