Smith & Wesson to End Most CA Sales Due to Microstamping Regulation

[Guest TresOsos]

Smith & Wesson to End Most CA Sales Due to Microstamping Regulation

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/01/23/Smith-Wesson-To-End-Most-CA-Sales-Due-to-Microstamping-Regulation

 

S&W and Ruger to stop sales of hanguns in CA.

 

I applaud S&W and Ruger for doing this, I just hope it applies to LEO sales and support.

Let them use slingshots.

Edited January 23, 2014 by TresOsos

[Hershmeister]

Its an excellent move as the legal argument that will hit the courts will be that the microstamping law is unconstitutional as it directly impedes a civil right. Pretty open and shut - but then again IANAL

[TrickyNicky]

Wrong move IMO. It plays right into Fiendstiens hands, she is most likely thrilled to have two less "death vendors" peddling their wares in "her" state. Plus it hurts S&W to have close down a fairly large revenue source, Ca is a huge state and contrary to popular belief, guns are quite popular there. Maybe not having to undergo additional tooling costs to comply with the new laws will make it financially sound for them, maybe not.

Either way this is a little different from the whole Barrett thing which I do support.

[BryanP]

Wrong move IMO. It plays right into Fiendstiens hands, she is most likely thrilled to have two less "death vendors" peddling their wares in "her" state. Plus it hurts S&W to have close down a fairly large revenue source, Ca is a huge state and contrary to popular belief, guns are quite popular there. Maybe not having to undergo additional tooling costs to comply with the new laws will make it financially sound for them, maybe not.

Either way this is a little different from the whole Barrett thing which I do support.

 

So when a small company does it, it's okay, but when a big company does it it's not?

[TrickyNicky]

So when a small company does it, it's okay, but when a big company does it it's not?

The size of the company has nothing to do with it. I agree with Barrett's decision because the circumstances are different. CA passed a law criminalizing Barrett's flagship product line, .50 cal rifles. There was no oppertunity to adapt the product and still keep it flowing into the state, except re chambering for a different round, kind of defeats the point of having a 50 cal when it's in 338. Not that there's anything wrong with a 338. :) in their case, the move was a good one, make it imossible for civilians to use out weapons, we'll make it impossible for ANYONE to use our weapons. Smith/Ruger are not up against quite the same wall.

I wouldn't blame them or hate them either way, its their companies to do with as they like, and I'll still buy their products without this entering into the equation one way or the next.

I'd still rather see them do somewhat like magpul did last year when they flooded the Colorado market with pmags before legislation went into effect. I understand why from a cost point of view they wouldn't want to, maybe even cant, but I'd rather see them tool up and make an effort to increase sales in CA instead of stopping them altogether.


Basically I'm of the opinion that by pulling out of CA, the companies loose revenue, law abiding citizens loose firearm options, and the dems win another step closer their gun free utopian society by the sea. I'd rather see the good guys win or at least loose as little ground as possible, and see the likes of Fiendstien have their plan backfire and bite them in the ass.

Also consider, with missing revenue there is sure to follow a significant price increase everywhere else...

My question, why exactly is there so much support for the cut and run tactic? I can't help but wonder if the sentiment would be the same if we were talking about this happening in a more popular state...

[Guest Gustafa]

The gentlemen that run these gun manufacturing companies are just gun heads, they are also savvy businessmen and pay employees to run and crunch the numbers of staying versus leaving. Its not a knee jerk reaction, no company goes into business to lose money.

I can safely guess they ran all the numbers 5 ways til Sunday and found that leaving makes more sense than tooling for the stamping. If it makes sense to offer a line or some lines in the future, they will go into production.

 

In as much as its political, it's also business. 

 

Trust me, I wish CA wasn't screwy, but it is. It's completely jacked in Cali, thats part of why I left. Just adding levity to the conversation.

[Oh Shoot]

Besides the non-existence of microstamping technology right now, it is also gun registration, which simply won't pass muster in most states.

 

AND one more thing that nobody seems to have addressed: how would you handle replacement firing pins? Would require that the company keep some sort of individual duplicate die or whatever for every gun they sold, cross referenced by serial number. Firing pins would wind up costing more than the rest of the gun.

 

- OS

[Joseg]

Tricky Nicky, ask yourself this, when more companies do it and the LEOs have no option but to press their overlords to loosen up on the stupidity, I see that as a win. applying pressure from within is a good thing..  BTW, I don't see Barrett losing any money from this.. Nor do I see other companies that have elected to not sell to states that have restricted civilians from having he same tools as LEOS (BCM comes to mind) 

 

But to be honest, I could care less about California, even though I have family there.. In can fall of the face of the map or turn into an island and I wouldn't give a damn about them.. 

[Oh Shoot]

Tricky Nicky, ask yourself this, when more companies do it and the LEOs have no option but to press their overlords to loosen up on the stupidity, I see that as a win. applying pressure from within is a good thing..  ...

 

Yeah, if only SIG would join the party.

 

- OS

[TrickyNicky]

The gentlemen that run these gun manufacturing companies are just gun heads, they are also savvy businessmen and pay employees to run and crunch the numbers of staying versus leaving. Its not a knee jerk reaction, no company goes into business to lose money.
I can safely guess they ran all the numbers 5 ways til Sunday and found that leaving makes more sense than tooling for the stamping. If it makes sense to offer a line or some lines in the future, they will go into production.

In as much as its political, it's also business.

Trust me, I wish CA wasn't screwy, but it is. It's completely jacked in Cali, thats part of why I left. Just adding levity to the conversation.

Again, if its the right financial decision then so be it, no ill will on my end one way or the next for Ruger/SW. Their reacting to a situation out of their control, all we or they can do is hope for the best outcome.

Besides the non-existence of microstamping technology right now, it is also gun registration, which simply won't pass muster in most states.

AND one more thing that nobody seems to have addressed: how would you handle replacement firing pins? Would require that the company keep some sort of individual duplicate die or whatever for every gun they sold, cross referenced by serial number. Firing pins would wind up costing more than the rest of the gun.

- OS

For most of the country you'd be right on the money. Ca already has state registration though so kind of a moot point for them. As to the matter of replacement pins, I'm sure something could be worked out, sell each gun with 3-4 consecutively/same numbered pins, start registering the pins themselves etc. those may not be truly viable plans but I'd be willing to bet there would be a way to work it out and pass the cost into the buyers of Ca. Maybe not though, again if its just not a financial possibility then so be it. I think it could be worked out by brains better than mine though.

Tricky Nicky, ask yourself this, when more companies do it and the LEOs have no option but to press their overlords to loosen up on the stupidity, I see that as a win. applying pressure from within is a good thing.. BTW, I don't see Barrett losing any money from this.. Nor do I see other companies that have elected to not sell to states that have restricted civilians from having he same tools as LEOS (BCM comes to mind)

But to be honest, I could care less about California, even though I have family there.. In can fall of the face of the map or turn into an island and I wouldn't give a damn about them..

The problem with that is that there are companies, some not even based here without a care in the world for Americans except their dollars who will fill the void and do so well. The idea of isolating California LEO from procuring the equipment they are actually BUYING is ludicrous. You think Glock cares for a minute about American politics over California LEO supply contracts? HK?

Besides even if that was a viable option Id rather put a different kind of pressure on the politicians of CA, the kind that only stems from more gun sales.

Again, Pelosi, Fiendstien, Moonbeam and the rest WANT Ruger/SW/Glock/CZ/Colt/ et al OUT of the California gun game. You may think you do too, but again, that is a huge chunk of revenue that the major gun companies will have to make up somehow, BCM and Barrett probably are not feeling much sting but then have probably not ever held 1/100th of the CA market combined that any one of the big companies have. Where they might have to recoup pennies, Ruger will have to recoup dollars. They're probably not about to take the hit themselves, especially with a new factory coming, any guesses what that means for everyone else?



I just can't see how this is anything but bad? :shrug:


If they do have to stop sales, I do agree with the general consensus that they should stop sales to everyone. I just wish they'd pass the cost onto the California buyer. That is more likely IMO to cause the pressure from within, plus keep arming the people who want to be armed, regardless of what THEY have to go through to do so, and regardless of anyone's geographical desires. ;)


At least my buddy's 10/22 might become worth as much as one of his FALs, I guess that's a plus. :D Edited January 24, 2014 by TrickyNicky

[mk19]

The whole micro stamping thing was pushed by the company who owns the patent on it and ofcourse Ca politicians took the idea and run with it. To them the oppositions of and campaigning of millions of Ca gun owners,LEOs and gun manufacturers did not matter. Ca gun owners are very organized and have found many ways and loop holes around stupid laws and restrictions, however it really does not matter since the politicians don't listen to anyone but themselves. 

I have not visited Ca gun forums in a long while but last I checked the whole micro stamping thing was moot anyways, it had something to do with the wording of the law, that the technology be available to everybody in order for it to take affect and it is not. The bigger problem facing Ca is the whole ammo restriction.

[Reservoir Dog]

I support them, as long as they are cutting off all sales to government agencies in CA, as well.  Otherwise, it is worthless.

[Dolomite_supafly]

One of the biggest concerns I have about micro stamping is this. I go to the range and shoot my gun that micro stamps the brass. Then, no matter how hard I try, I cannot find all my brass. So some unscrupulous person manages to hit the range and pick up the brass I missed. Then the criminal decides to throw it down as he commits a crime. This will throw LE off of him and put me squarely in LE sights. Now I understand it should be easy to clear but not before they confiscate my gun and spend countless hours questioning me. And in the off chance I was sitting at home alone without an alibi I could find myself being charged with a crime I didn't commit. And even if there are eyewitnesses the micro stamped brass belonging to another will be enough to raise reasonable doubt at trial.

[mikegideon]

One of the biggest concerns I have about micro stamping is this. I go to the range and shoot my gun that micro stamps the brass. Then, no matter how hard I try, I cannot find all my brass. So some unscrupulous person manages to hit the range and pick up the brass I missed. Then the criminal decides to throw it down as he commits a crime. This will throw LE off of him and put me squarely in LE sights. Now I understand it should be easy to clear but not before they confiscate my gun and spend countless hours questioning me. And in the off chance I was sitting at home alone without an alibi I could find myself being charged with a crime I didn't commit. And even if there are eyewitnesses the micro stamped brass belonging to another will be enough to raise reasonable doubt at trial.

 

Just another reason why they call 'em libtards. I'm 100% behind Ruger, S&W, and any other manufacturer that writes off that idiot state. If they (even could) comply with the microstamping "technology", it will be embraced by even more idiots. Might as well stand their ground and save the R&D on something that won't work anyway.

Edited January 24, 2014 by mikegideon

[Guest TresOsos]

Quite frankly I think all of the Gun and Ammunitiion companies, Body Armor Companies and all LEO related supply compaines should immediately stop all sales to any and all Kommiefornia Governmental and LEO Agencys.

 

Let them have their Gun Free Dystopian Society, but do give Government(s) State and Local the ability to maintain a monopoly of force against the Citizens.

 

See how they like them apples.

 

(Pipe dream I know, companies aren't going to do it and the FEDs would step in and supply them if they did.)

[enfield]

It's just a business decision by S&W, the same company that brought us internal locks on revolvers.

 

California is bent on self-destruction.  They made it impossible to legally sell new handguns in the state; S&W reacted as expected.

[nightrunner]

Would it not be incredibly easy to swap firing pins and stamp with the wrong number?

[DaveTN]

Where do the other gun companies stand on this SIG/KAHR/GLOCK/BERETTA? And who is doing micro stamping?

[peejman]

As somebody said, these are experience business men (women?) and this is nothing more than a high stakes game of poker.  They called CA's bluff.  We'll see who plays the next card.  Happens all the time in big business.

 

That's said, I'm glad they did it.  Careful what you wish, you just might get it. 

[Guest PapaB]

The whole micro stamping thing was pushed by the company who owns the patent on it and ofcourse Ca politicians took the idea and run with it. To them the oppositions of and campaigning of millions of Ca gun owners,LEOs and gun manufacturers did not matter. Ca gun owners are very organized and have found many ways and loop holes around stupid laws and restrictions, however it really does not matter since the politicians don't listen to anyone but themselves. 

I have not visited Ca gun forums in a long while but last I checked the whole micro stamping thing was moot anyways, it had something to do with the wording of the law, that the technology be available to everybody in order for it to take affect and it is not. The bigger problem facing Ca is the whole ammo restriction.

 

Actually, the patent is held by Todd Lizotte and he was part of the DOJ study team that said the technology had too many questions that needed to be addressed before this should be legislativly mandated. Kalifornia didn't care.

[Guest PapaB]

Wrong move IMO. It plays right into Fiendstiens hands, she is most likely thrilled to have two less "death vendors" peddling their wares in "her" state. Plus it hurts S&W to have close down a fairly large revenue source, Ca is a huge state and contrary to popular belief, guns are quite popular there. Maybe not having to undergo additional tooling costs to comply with the new laws will make it financially sound for them, maybe not.

Either way this is a little different from the whole Barrett thing which I do support.

 

I have to disagree on this one, it's a really good move for gun rights people. If all companies complied you might not be allowed to sue because you coldn't show you'd been unduly harmed (liberal courts seldom view an increase in cost as an undue burden). This move by S & W and Ruger will allow Californians their day in court to get this overturned. It would be even better if all manufacturers joined in. One of the best proofs they're going to have that this law is about gun control and not crime prevention is that it only affects semi-auto handguns. It may go all the way to SCOTUS but I think they'll prevail in the end.

[enfield]

Would it not be incredibly easy to swap firing pins and stamp with the wrong number?

 

Ah!  But that's illegal, you see.  Makes perfect sense in California.

[Dustbuster]

For a state that is broke they sure do focus on very important items. I have friends that work in LE that cringe over the libtard nightmare..this isn't anything new,no benefit to stamping. May help build a trail but Won't typically finger or exonerate anyone without going through process of elimination. Along with dolomites reasoning say 4 people owned that ruger or Taurus in multiple states,all 4 don't have alibis after a shooting,now we have 4 people standing process that's a lot of time and money. Lawyers profit, courts are crowded, innocent owners harassed,ad nauseum.
Bad guys are already using toy guns for robberies to intimidate with and blades to get physically violent out west.If ruger and sw pull out no big deal. Goods will come in from other channels. Hard for the mfgs? Nope they've definitely graphed this out. Retool or leave? They'll leave.

Joe ruger: hey everyone welcome to the meeting. End of next week nothing sold or shipped to calif. Any questions? ( crickets)
Thanks guys shot was a success, we've got lots of police orderS and dhs orders,see u at the co picnic no retooling this year!
(Employees cheer)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 of course it ate my spelling.

[glowdotGlock]

I can't really fathom how micro-stamping would even work. On a metal firing pin only fractions of a millimeter wide. There are only so many combinations of ways to make it where each one makes it's own unique primer strike. Even as time goes on and the gun needs a new pin, your order a duplicate that was made at time of munufature?

[BryanP]

Would it not be incredibly easy to swap firing pins and stamp with the wrong number?

 

It would also be incredibly easy to take a file to the end of the existing firing pin.  You wouldn't have to take off enough to affect function to remove the microstamp.