TN nullification of Obamacare and all federal gun laws

[Erik88]

This was posted on another forum. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned here but perhaps it's because it's unlikely to pass.

 

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/01/tennessee-nullification-obamacare-federal-gun-laws-legislation-introduced/

 

 

 

 

the Firearms Freedom Act declares that the States speaking through the US Constitution expressly prohibited the federal government from having any regulatory authority over firearms inside the state of   Tennessee, and as such no federal firearms law in Tennessee is valid. These prohibitions are most prominent in the wording of 2nd and 10th Amendments. The new push will mandate criminal penalties for any federal or state official attempting to enforce unconstitutional federal firearms laws within the borders of Tennessee.  It is also expected to authorize citizens to pursue claims by expressly defining federal firearms laws as intentional civil rights violations.
 

 

 

[Pat]

One can only hope! We can all say "it'll never pass", but if we don't try and keep trying, we won't ever get anywhere... like someone else said on this forum recently, we'll use the lib's tactics against them - ask for a mile, and take an inch at a time if we have to.

[RobertNashville]

Nice effort and a worthwhile one though I seriously doubt it could ever be enforced by TN.

[gregintenn]

I wouldn't be surprised if it passes, but will be blown away if it is ever enforced. Washington D.C. knows all they have to do is to drag a dollar under the noses of our local politicians and they'll fall right in line. This is for show only.

[DaveTN]

Just like the 55MPH limit states will comply or their federal funding will be cut. We need a group of states to reject Obama Care; that could work.

I doubt you will see much on gun laws unless the Feds pass something. A state can say they refuse to recognize the NFA; but that won’t help you if you are in Federal custody.

Tennessee passed the TFFA and it hasn’t been tried.

[DMark]

Not sure what Mae Beavers is up to with these bills.

 

She must have done something that really pissed off Ron Ramsey before last year's General Assembly.  The Lt. Gov took her out of the most important committees just days before they went into session.  With no real power in the state senate anymore, maybe Beavers is just tossing up this red-meat stuff in an attempt to stay in the spotlight.

 

Meanwhile......, Susan Lynn stays quiet.  :whistle:

 

Hmmmmmm. 

[JohnC]

Doubt it will pass, but I like it and would support it! :up:

[JayC]

Dave,

 

This law is a little different...  It includes criminal and civil penalties...  And allows for me to go to the court, and have a special prosecutor appointed to charge those involved and the state covers the tab...  That is *huge*, the TNAG can't just ignore this law and hope it goes away like he did with the firearm freedom law, this allows any citizen wronged by the feds to force criminal charges and an independent special prosecutor on any state employees that aided the charges.

 

Lets follow this rabbit hole further....

 

Lets say the Feds pass a ban on 30 round mags...  How does one catch a violator under this law?  

 

No police officer can aid or even tell the Feds about a person having a 30 round magazine...  if they do, they can be criminally charged, and loose sovereign immunity for their actions...  that means they can be placed behind bars for 11 months and 29 days on the first offense, and over a year on the second (being a felony offense).  Then the person arrested could turn around and file a civil lawsuit against the officer (with standing) and collect $50k plus all real damages such as loss of income, loss of property, loss of freedom, etc plus attorney fees, that number gets pretty big pretty quick.

 

Now, the feds arrest the 'offender'...  where do they put him?  The feds don't have a jail here in TN, and no TN sheriff could touch the 'offender' with a 10 foot poll without also violating this law...  They have to keep the 'offender' in TN because the trial would have to take place in Nashville.  They place the 'offender' in a hotel room under guard 24/7 using only federal officer?  Or take the 'offender' to KY or AL everyday?

 

Then you have the courthouse itself, where more than 50% of the security officers are TN POST certified law enforcement picking up extra shifts...  which one of them wants to be the test case that this law doesn't apply to them while they're working a part time job?

 

If passed as is, this would be a game changer...  first time we've been the ability for average citizens to enforce the law through state courts, instead of praying the TNAG wakes up and does the right thing.

 

Just like the 55MPH limit states will comply or their federal funding will be cut. We need a group of states to reject Obama Care; that could work.

I doubt you will see much on gun laws unless the Feds pass something. A state can say they refuse to recognize the NFA; but that won’t help you if you are in Federal custody.

Tennessee passed the TFFA and it hasn’t been tried.

[DaveTN]

Dave,
 
This law is a little different...  It includes criminal and civil penalties...  And allows for me to go to the court, and have a special prosecutor appointed to charge those involved and the state covers the tab...  That is *huge*, the TNAG can't just ignore this law and hope it goes away like he did with the firearm freedom law, this allows any citizen wronged by the feds to force criminal charges and an independent special prosecutor on any state employees that aided the charges.
 
Lets follow this rabbit hole further....
 
Lets say the Feds pass a ban on 30 round mags...  How does one catch a violator under this law?  
 
No police officer can aid or even tell the Feds about a person having a 30 round magazine...  if they do, they can be criminally charged, and loose sovereign immunity for their actions...  that means they can be placed behind bars for 11 months and 29 days on the first offense, and over a year on the second (being a felony offense).  Then the person arrested could turn around and file a civil lawsuit against the officer (with standing) and collect $50k plus all real damages such as loss of income, loss of property, loss of freedom, etc plus attorney fees, that number gets pretty big pretty quick.
 
Now, the feds arrest the 'offender'...  where do they put him?  The feds don't have a jail here in TN, and no TN sheriff could touch the 'offender' with a 10 foot poll without also violating this law...  They have to keep the 'offender' in TN because the trial would have to take place in Nashville.  They place the 'offender' in a hotel room under guard 24/7 using only federal officer?  Or take the 'offender' to KY or AL everyday?
 
Then you have the courthouse itself, where more than 50% of the security officers are TN POST certified law enforcement picking up extra shifts...  which one of them wants to be the test case that this law doesn't apply to them while they're working a part time job?
 
If passed as is, this would be a game changer...  first time we've been the ability for average citizens to enforce the law through state courts, instead of praying the TNAG wakes up and does the right thing.

JayC,
You are dreaming if you think the Feds need or want the cooperation of local law enforcement should this go down and they want to make an example out of a few people. No one in their right mind will risk time in the Federal pen. Same thing happened with the TFFA, we all (FFL holders) got letters from the BATF that they did not recognize the act and would take action if we violated Federal law. No one I know of has challenged this law as yet. Why? Because the Feds can tell the state to go pound sand and in the meantime you are on your way to Federal prison. Help from the state? Give me a break, they can’t help.

However, it doesn’t appear that we will need to find out.

But how about this. Since you are so sure you can win these cases and sue everyone into submission, will you volunteer to be our local test case if Federal laws are passed?

[JayC]

The Firearm Freedom acts are winding their way through the federal court system right now (thanks to Montana's AG)...  We'll have to wait and see how those cases work out.  So those letters from the BATFE are being challenged in court as we speak.  My guess is that SCOTUS will side with the Feds, but we could be surprised.

 

The truth is the Feds can't enforce the laws they have on the books now without the help of the local police departments...  This bill would remove the ability of any government employee in TN from helping in anyway shape or form to enforce federal firearm laws...  and would carry criminal as well as civil risk for any employee that violated the law.  

 

In my post, I never suggested the Fed couldn't arrest somebody for having an illegal 30 round magazine...  just that it would be really hard on them without any help whatsoever...  They would end up convicting some folks, but with no help whatsoever from locals it would be really hard...  How exactly do you find out somebody is stockpiling illegal firearms and/or magazines if no employee of the government can help you?

 

We already have SCOTUS rulings that say the federal government can't compel the state to enforce federal law...  so this law wouldn't violate federal supremacy, it just prevents TN government employees from enforcing the federal law, and provides for criminal and civil liabilities if they violate state law.  That would stand up in federal court, we can look at other examples of this where it already has.

 

So yes, they'd be able to convict some folks, but it would drastically limit how many.

 

You still haven't answered my question, if arrested where do those people sit for the 2 years it takes for the feds to place them on trial?  The Feds have nowhere to hold them without help from local authorities.

 

I don't break the law Dave - at least knowingly - so I'm not worried about the feds showing up and arresting me... I have no interest in being a test case.... but I do like provisions in the law that place criminal and civil liabilities on government workers that violate state law... and provisions that allow me to bypass the local DA and force action on those violations of state law.

 

Frankly, I think we should just pass this law today on all federal enforcement...  prohibit with felony charges any state employee from aiding the feds in any criminal case...  if they want to charge people let them do all the work themselves.

 

You know my opinion, this is all going to end badly sooner or later, might as well get it started and over with sooner rather than later.

 

JayC,
You are dreaming if you think the Feds need or want the cooperation of local law enforcement should this go down and they want to make an example out of a few people. No one in their right mind will risk time in the Federal pen. Same thing happened with the TFFA, we all (FFL holders) got letters from the BATF that they did not recognize the act and would take action if we violated Federal law. No one I know of has challenged this law as yet. Why? Because the Feds can tell the state to go pound sand and in the meantime you are on your way to Federal prison. Help from the state? Give me a break, they can’t help.

However, it doesn’t appear that we will need to find out.

But how about this. Since you are so sure you can win these cases and sue everyone into submission, will you volunteer to be our local test case if Federal laws are passed?

 

[gregintenn]

Not sure what Mae Beavers is up to with these bills.

 

She must have done something that really pissed off Ron Ramsey before last year's General Assembly.  The Lt. Gov took her out of the most important committees just days before they went into session.  With no real power in the state senate anymore, maybe Beavers is just tossing up this red-meat stuff in an attempt to stay in the spotlight.

 

Meanwhile......, Susan Lynn stays quiet.  :whistle:

 

Hmmmmmm. 

You ever meet Mae Beavers? She certainly has a knack for pissing people off.

[DMark]

You ever meet Mae Beavers? She certainly has a knack for pissing people off.

 

Oh I know Mae very well.  I asked her last year what she did to bring on the Wrath of Ramsey, but she isn't talking.

[Ted S.]

Only freedom haters won't pass this bill. Nuff said!

Sent from somewhere in the cosmos using magic...and bacon.

[RobertNashville]

"Judge Andrew Napolitano, a former New Jersey Superior Court Judge known for his political commentary has said publicly that laws such as these from state legislatures, if enacted, would make Federal enforcement of gun statutes “nearly impossible.”

 

http://www.guns.com/2014/01/18/tn-lawmaker-wants-criminalize-federal-gun-control-enforcement/?fb_action_ids=10151930314175967&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[1381600465435335]&action_type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

 

As for Mae Beavers; anyone who doesn't genuflect to the triumvirate of Haslam, Harwell and Ramsey will incur the wrath of the same.

Edited January 20, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Guest PapaB]

"Judge Andrew Napolitano, a former New Jersey Superior Court Judge known for his political commentary has said publicly that laws such as these from state legislatures, if enacted, would make Federal enforcement of gun statutes “nearly impossible.”

 

http://www.guns.com/2014/01/18/tn-lawmaker-wants-criminalize-federal-gun-control-enforcement/?fb_action_ids=10151930314175967&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[1381600465435335]&action_type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

 

We need to get that man on SCOTUS, along with 5 or 6 like minded jurists.

[RobertNashville]

We need to get that man on SCOTUS, along with 5 or 6 like minded jurists.

Yeah...I sure wish we could...I'd also like to clone him and fill most state legislatures and city government positions with him as well.

 

I don't even always agree with the man but I know that even if I don't agree with him that's he probably right! :)

[JayC]

Hmmm seems my overall view of the new law isn't completely off base :)  I like Judge Napolitano, and signed a petition asking Gov Christie to appoint him to the empty Senate seat last year...  Of course instead of nominating a republican, Christie opted for an election and allowed another democrat to take the seat.

 

"Judge Andrew Napolitano, a former New Jersey Superior Court Judge known for his political commentary has said publicly that laws such as these from state legislatures, if enacted, would make Federal enforcement of gun statutes “nearly impossible.”

 

http://www.guns.com/2014/01/18/tn-lawmaker-wants-criminalize-federal-gun-control-enforcement/?fb_action_ids=10151930314175967&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[1381600465435335]&action_type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

 

As for Mae Beavers; anyone who doesn't genuflect to the triumvirate of Haslam, Harwell and Ramsey will incur the wrath of the same.

[Worriedman]

Seems a few more States may be getting in on the act.

 

http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2014/01/west-virginia-legislation-would-nullify-federal-gun-control-measures/#.Ut3mZbRMG_A

 

 

CHARLESTON, W.V., January 15, 2014 –  West Virginia state delegate Cindy Frich, along with five cosponsors have introduced a bill to block the implementation of federal gun control measures within the state.

House Bill 2832 (HB2832), the Firearm Protection Act, prohibits all state public servants from enforcing any “act, law, statute, rule or regulation of the United States Government relating to a personal firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition” provided that the item in question remains “exclusively within the borders of West Virginia.”

 

http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2014/01/georgia-bill-would-make-federal-gun-laws-nearly-impossible-to-enforce/#.Ut3nZLRMG_A

 

 

Georgia Representative Tom Kerby and five cosponsors have introduced a bill to block the implementation of federal gun-control measures within the state.

House Bill 732 (HB732) prohibits all state public servants and gun dealers from enforcing federal gun laws.

 

A tide that needs to continue to roll and gain strength.

[JohnC]

Hey guys, even if you think legislation like this will never pass or that it might seem like a waste of time, you need to reconsider. The more time we spend pushing for what we want and getting any small victories along the way, the better.

Why?

Small victories accumulate to larger ones.

Also, the more we keep these politicians busy voting on our issues, the less they have time to spend on the left-wing's issues. :up:

You need to see things the "progressive" way much like the strategy of the left-wing. :up:

[DaveTN]

A tide that needs to continue to roll and gain strength.

http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20132014/HB/732
GA is taking it one step farther than most states. If that bill passes it would make it a crime for a Federal Firearms Dealer to follow Federal law on weapons and ammo made within the state. That’s a pretty easy fix for the Feds. Good luck buying guns if you don’t have any FFL’s and can only buy what is made within the state from manufacturers that don’t care if they keep their FFL. Telling federally licensed FFL’s they can’t comply with Federal law won’t end well for any of us.

I wonder how fast Glock will be able to move their facility.

[DaveTN]

Hey guys, even if you think legislation like this will never pass or that it might seem like a waste of time, you need to reconsider. The more time we spend pushing for what we want and getting any small victories along the way, the better.

Why?

Small victories accumulate to larger ones.

You mean like passing a law that is supposed to protect HCP holders that want their carry guns kept in their cars while at work; but doesn’t keep them from being fired? Or maybe making enough noise about signs that it went from having the language on the sign to a picture of a gun with a line through it is good enough. Because the only thing those kinds of “small victories” will accumulate into is more gun control.

Small victories are nothing more than something the politicians can claim they are pro-gun about while actually doing nothing.

 

Also, the more we keep these politicians busy voting on our issues, the less they have time to spend on the left-wing's issues. :up:

You need to see things the "progressive" way much like the strategy of the left-wing. :up:

The NRA and the TFA want you to get behind Constitutional Carry. The rumors are legislation may be proposed soon. Only four states hold this prestigious position. They did it and I see no reason why Tennessee could not be number five.

As far as the Federal laws go we would be on much better footing to reject those laws if we recognized the 2nd amendment as an individual right of all citizens.

It’s time.

[Worriedman]

 You mean like passing a law that is supposed to protect HCP holders that want their carry guns kept in their cars while at work; but doesn’t keep them from being fired?

 

That Public Chapter was shoved down the throat of the People by Big Business and their bought and paid for lackeys. It was in fact a sop to the likes of Fed Ex and Bridgestone. Notice that those who actively seek Constitutional Carry and are not just offering up chin music are working to get that travesty changed.  Anyone with one eye and half the sense of a six month old mule knows that last year's "Parking Lot" bill was not a step forward, but rather a sell out to the Chamber.

[JayC]

You see it as a sellout, some of us who own businesses see it as the right answer...  There *might* have been an argument that businesses that provide the public accommodation of a parking lot to their customers shouldn't be allowed to prevent law abiding citizens from keeping firearms in their cars.  Now I disagree with this thought process, because I believe it violates the businesses freedom of association (and disassociation) rights...  but at least one could make a rational argument in support.

 

Trying to pass a law that creates a protected class of workers who happen to have an HCP should be a no go...  it violates core conservative principles of limited government.  It was a bad idea from the very start, and for that reason the chamber and large businesses around the state wrote big checks to stop it.

 

Constitutional carry with the ability to prevent people from carrying in your business (the building), and prevent your employees from carrying won't have the same level of opposition as the parking lots bill did.  The chamber will be against it, but they were against the restaurant carry change...  FedEx and company won't have an issue because it doesn't change the status quo for them, they can still prevent employees from being armed on their property, and prevent customers from carrying inside their businesses via 39-17-1359 if they want - which I've NEVER seen a FedEx store posted btw.

 

At the end of the day if you want to carry and the business you work for won't allow you to carry then man up and find a better job that will...  I changed doctors because when they moved into a new office building it was posted...  so I changed to a new doctor who was pro-gun...  When Costco posted, I went down there and canceled my membership and the membership of all my employees.

 

9 years ago, I woke up and felt the business I was working for wasn't a good company, I ethically could no longer support what they were doing as a company...  some of that included their support of anti-2nd amendment groups and positions...  my wife and I sat down, figured out a 2 year plan, and started to work that plan...  about 4 months shy of the 2 year mark, they did a round of layoffs that I got hit with...  which believe it or not was a blessing because of the severance package.  Anyhow, 7 years later this will be the first year I make more money than I did the last year I worked for my former employer...  but I'm my own boss, nobody except the government tells me I can't carry everywhere I go... oh yeah I work a lot fewer hours than I did before, and I'm a lot less stressed...  I have free time to help causes I believe in (which TFA was one of those causes)...  and I get to see my daughter every morning when she wakes up, and every evening for dinner and bed time.

 

I made the hard choices that I felt were best for me and my family...  

 

If you continue to pick making more money over the ability to protect yourself that is your fault and nobody elses...  and you're no better than the folks who bought more house than they could afford, then turned around and begged the government for a bailout.  *For the record you in the above paragraphs is not directed at anyone person just people in general*

 

That Public Chapter was shoved down the throat of the People by Big Business and their bought and paid for lackeys. It was in fact a sop to the likes of Fed Ex and Bridgestone. Notice that those who actively seek Constitutional Carry and are not just offering up chin music are working to get that travesty changed.  Anyone with one eye and half the sense of a six month old mule knows that last year's "Parking Lot" bill was not a step forward, but rather a sell out to the Chamber.

 

[JohnC]

You see it as a sellout, some of us who own businesses see it as the right answer...  There *might* have been an argument that businesses that provide the public accommodation of a parking lot to their customers shouldn't be allowed to prevent law abiding citizens from keeping firearms in their cars.  Now I disagree with this thought process, because I believe it violates the businesses freedom of association (and disassociation) rights...  but at least one could make a rational argument in support.
 
Trying to pass a law that creates a protected class of workers who happen to have an HCP should be a no go...  it violates core conservative principles of limited government.  It was a bad idea from the very start, and for that reason the chamber and large businesses around the state wrote big checks to stop it.

I hate to be brutally honest here, but I'm for the individual and his constitutional rights, not your silly business rules that restrict those rights. :up:

What are you so worried about that you don't want individuals with a TN HCP to be able to carry on your property anyway? You're surrounded by us everywhere else you go where carry is not restricted. :shrug:

[Guest 6.8 AR]

He should always have the right to say no to anything inside his business, guns or whatever. That's his business, not yours. It's his

risk capital that got it started it up and his to win or lose. I'm glad to see it is working out for him. That's the American Dream!

 

Working on Constitutional carry doesn't include the right to infringe on others.