The big tease... / Obligatory Laser Thread

[Guest Len]

I am on the UPS "bad list." Once they claimed I received a package that I never did, so now every time they show up they require a signature in person. Needless to say, they ALWAYS show up when I am at work. So, got home this afternoon and sure enough there was the little yellow sticky on my door. Seems my Crimson Trace arrived today for my G19. Aarrghh!!! Been waiting on this for a while now and am really interested in seeing what value I can get from this device. In other words, was it worth my $139.00??

So, I thought I'd start the obligatory laser thread and see what y'all have to say about the topic. I'm interested in lasers as training tools and as point-shooting aids (esp at night.)

Thoughts?

[shaftbass]

subscribing..

[molonlabetn]

Crimson-Trace makes a good product... I almost bought one of their models for the AR15 (neat setup, grip activation, laser mounts to the carry-handle).

At ranges which I would need to defend myself, it is unlikely that I couldn't point-fire just as accuratly as I could with a laser... and if I've got enough time to take an aimed shot, I will use the sights.

I think that a laser is an excellent tool, used properly under the necessary conditions... just remember that bright red beam works both ways! Just like a mounted light. Long-guns are more natural platforms for lasers, IMO. But, whatever works for the user is fine with me.

On handguns especially, lasers are excellent training aids... Lets you see POA after a draw... without putting your finger on the trigger. I don't care for the Laser-max units, they're to dim, less natural to operate, and compromise the internal structure of the handgun itself (if it comes apart, your pistol is screwed).

So, good choice on the CT! Let us know how you like it!

[TGO David]

As you know Len, my latest acquisition has CT laser grips on it. I can see the "tactical" value of them easily but I see a lot more "practical" value for training purposes. It's really easy now to practice good trigger control while dry firing. When the dot moves, you know you goofed.

Plus it's a lot of fun to drive the cats nuts with the laser.

[Marswolf]

I used to have a LaserMax on my G26. If I was going to buy a laser for a handgun it would be a Crimson Trace.

As molonlabetn says, "just remember that bright red beam works both ways!"

[Guest Len]

Plus it's a lot of fun to drive the cats nuts with the laser.

Yeah, I plan on using that feature of the device as well...

A buddy of mine who uses lasers on all his carry guns has 12 cats. Its quite the spectacle when he turns on the laser on one of his Glocks!

I'm planning to be home early today to catch the UPS woman. Will submit an After Action Report upon installation and dry fire.

[saintsfanbrian]

I am interested in this too. I have thought about the laser as being a way to help aquire target in awkward situations/angles etc.

As stated, it does work both ways, but if you get one of those neat little laser pointers for a few bucks, you could always set it up on a table near by and point it at bg's chest along with your CT. Really mess with their heads.

[TGO David]

I'm planning to be home early today to catch the UPS woman. Will submit an After Action Report upon installation and dry fire.

Please do... we all want to hear about your...

"LASER"

[GhstFace38]

Just installed the CT grip on my 642 BUG. Love it!

[Guest Len]

Missed UPS again today. Am staying home tomorrow to make sure I get it. Will keep you posted.

[Guest db99wj]

I am on the UPS "bad list." Once they claimed I received a package that I never did, so now every time they show up they require a signature in person. Needless to say, they ALWAYS show up when I am at work. So, got home this afternoon and sure enough there was the little yellow sticky on my door. Seems my Crimson Trace arrived today for my G19. Aarrghh!!! Been waiting on this for a while now and am really interested in seeing what value I can get from this device. In other words, was it worth my $139.00??

So, I thought I'd start the obligatory laser thread and see what y'all have to say about the topic. I'm interested in lasers as training tools and as point-shooting aids (esp at night.)

Thoughts?

Missed UPS again today. Am staying home tomorrow to make sure I get it. Will keep you posted.

What did YOU do that pissed them off so bad?

[Guest Len]

Well, the gods of UPS smiled upon me today. More or less. They claimed they would show up between 1030am-2pm, so I promptly arrived at my house at 10:15am. They showed at 2:25pm. Needless to say, my day at work was shot. Oh well.

After Action Report: Crimson Trace Laser Grip Model LG-619 (Fits compact size Glock pistols 19, 23, 25, 32 & 38.)

I. Initial impressions

The grip came in a well-packed box. Inside the package was a CT 2007 catalog and a black box, about the size of a watch box. Very high quality, like what a piece of jewelry would come in. Inside the box was the grip, manual, warranty card, accessory installation kit/tools, and a round CT sticker. The grip itself was wrapped in a black Ct shooting towel. Nice touch.

On the down side, I had ordered the grip via an NRA Instructor's program that provides a significant discount, a DVD, and a booklet on how to use the grip as a training device. None of these were included in my package.

However, they charged my credit card $10.00 less than the order form indicated. I ended up paying $139.00 including shipping. So, I wont be complaining. I have been teaching for close to 20 years now, I think I'll figure it out.

II. Installation

A breeze. Simply install the batteries, remove the Glock factory trigger housing pin (tool to do this is included), slide on the grip and attach with the included CT trigger housing pin. That's it. Done.

(Note: Keep the Glock pin in case you ever want to remove the grips -the CT pin is too long to be used without the grips installed.)

III. Set-up.

The grip is factory zeroed for 50'. This makes it appear that the laser dot prints wide-right on the target if the target is within usual pistol fight distances (ie, the length of my living room). It also looks like the dot is a little low compared to my sights. The grip is adjustable for windage and elevation, so a trip to the range this weekend will help me see what's what and allow me to make any needed adjustments. The tiny allen wrenches to adjust the laser are included in the package. There is hardly any difference in grip feel, and the grip is comfortable. Color match with the Glock black frame is perfect. Weight is minimal -not noticeable at all. The laser dot is bright red, nice sharp point, and does not pulse like a LaserMax.

IV. Random Thoughts

Supposedly a pulsing dot is better, but I have my doubts -pulsing lasers annoy me, which leads me to turn them off, which makes them useless. That reminds me, there is no power switch. The laser is activated when the web of your hand (between thumb and forefinger) tightens on the pistol's grip. The laser dot also makes the best cat toy money can buy. Much feline fun had during my post-install testing.

I will report further after my range session this weekend. All signs point to a happy customer and a useful purchase so far. I see this being very useful for off-hand or unusual positions.

[Marswolf]

[/b]Supposedly a pulsing dot is better, but I have my doubts -pulsing lasers annoy me, which leads me to turn them off, which makes them useless.

Len, I look forward to your report. I had a G26 with a LaserMax and didn't care for it because it was too hard to turn it on and off while maintaining a decent combat grip. I'm of the view that the laser should be off except for the second or so it takes to aim and fire. Then immediately turn off the tracking device (back to you tracking).

[Guest bazookazilla]

very curious to see how you like this

[Guest Len]

I was able to get up to Guns & Leather today to try out the CT LG-619 on my Glock 19.

First off, a big shout out to Hornet Handler and Mrs. Hornet Handler who I found in the lounge waiting their turn on the range for the Carry Permit shooting test. I'm sure both will acquit themselves well.

Since the carry permit students were on the "good" (PC-controlled) range, I went over to the other side and offer this report:

1. The CT manual claims the laser grip is set at the factory for a 50ft zero. I ran a target our to the 50' line to check. They were right on the mark, so I decided to leave well enough alone and NOT fiddle with the elevation and windage settings. (This would be easy to do via tiny adjustment screws on the side of the unit combined with the included tiny allen wrenches.)

2. I had two concerns when I installed the grips:

a) the laser would be blocked by the index finger of my right (strong side) hand. I could see the light on my finger and thought this would disrupt the beam downrange. Nope. Nice sharp clear beam all the way out.

the laser would inhibit my draw. No problems there, either. (I use Fobus holsters, either paddle (today) or belt loop style.)

3. Shooting. A couple of minor quirks I think I will get used to.

a) At first I was looking for the beam, trying to align front sight, beam and rear sight, thus taking WAY TOO MUCH FREAKIN TIME to get on target. The fundamentals do not change with the red beam attached to the gun! I learned my lesson.

The laser REALLY points out every hand vibration, especially at longer distances. I have a minor case of what the docs call "Essential Tremor," which gives me slight tremors in my hands. Its controllable with medication, but some days its worse than others. This was a worse-than-usual day, and everyone on the range knew it, since they saw the laser shaking all over the target. However, this is a good training tool for hand and breath control as well as for noting movement due to incorrect trigger control (or the slightly odd Glock DAO triggers.) (There you go, blaming the gun!)

c) The laser was VERY valuable for off-hand and one-handed shooting, as well as point-shooting from odd angles, etc. Very fast and accurate target acquisition. In fact I was happiest with my left (weak) side one-handed shots of everything I did today.

4. Random thoughts:

a) overall "thumbs" up, although I would like an off-button. (CT grips for many non-Glock handguns have this feature.)

expect to be the center of attention at the range, since everyone thinks lasers are cool. (Even the older gentleman in the lane next to me who had been shooting longer than I have been breathing was very interested.)

c) Expectations met. Good training tool and useful in certain "tactical" situations. Takes some practice to avoid staring at the red dot instead of getting on target and taking your shot.

d) The forces of capitalism were out to get me today. I walked out of Guns & Leather with a slightly used, hardly fired S&W 642 snubby. $345.00, and it was made in Dec, 2006. Cleaned it up when I got home and it looks brand new.

I will upload a pic shortly.

[Guest Len]

Top photo is my Glock 19 next to the new (to me) S&W 642 for size comparison purposes. (The Glock unloaded is actually lighter.) Note the CT laser on the Glock. S&W 642 all by itself in the 2nd photo. These pics were taken before both guns were cleaned. They look prettier now.

Click on the pics to see larger version. Click on the larger version to see an even larger version.

-Len