Changing .308 direction...I think

[rugerla1]

Let me start by saying my ArmaLite has barely began to be broken in, and that I LOVE it! But I've been doing a lot of thinking and I don't even know what brought it on.

Anyway, here's the plan and some of the reasoning behind it. I have an M&P15 that my wife and I both enjoy shooting. First thing I'll do when/if I sell the AR10 is buy another AR15. One with a freefloat barrel already on it, but not sure which one I'm really wanting yet. It will basically be my wife's go to SHTF gun. She can shoot the AR10 fine but it gets heavy for her after shooting it a while. She can shoot my M&P all day. Also, having same ammo, same mags for both guns is also a plus.

That's not all of the plan though, because I'd feel kind of crazy to just get rid of a .308 just to get a 5.56 I think. So my new have-to-have is a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. That will be my hunt/target/long range heavier caliber rifle. I love the heavy 20" barrel, but will be changing the Hogue stock out when money permits for something a little higher in quality.

Obviously I won't get enough out of my AR10 for both of the above rifles, but enough for one and a little extra to put back and add to the pile designated for the SPS.

 

Thoughts, ideas?

[whitewolf001]

Well, consider this; an SPS in .308 is going to sit around the 699-799 mark pending where you get it. Scope, rings, and base will run you a little higher if you get better quality than bottom barrel. For a good SPS setup, you're looking at $900-1200. So your AR-10 can probably fetch you what that goes for but that'll depend on its brand. What is the brand, model, and sub-model of your AR-10? You can pick the S&W M&P15 sports for real cheap, $600-700 OR get one of these with a lower, BCG, and ch.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/15658/s/ptac-ss12g2-16-5-56mm-1-9-carbine-length-w-o-bcg-charging-handle/category/4098/

[Spots]

[quote name="whitewolf001" post="1097378" timestamp="1390088605"]Well, consider this; an SPS in .308 is going to sit around the 699-799 mark pending where you get it. Scope, rings, and base will run you a little higher if you get better quality than bottom barrel. For a good SPS setup, you're looking at $900-1200. So your AR-10 can probably fetch you what that goes for but that'll depend on its brand. What is the brand, model, and sub-model of your AR-10? You can pick the S&W M&P15 sports for real cheap, $600-700 OR get one of these with a lower, BCG, and ch. [url="http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/15658/s/ptac-ss12g2-16-5-56mm-1-9-carbine-length-w-o-bcg-charging-handle/category/4098/"]http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/15658/s/ptac-ss12g2-16-5-56mm-1-9-carbine-length-w-o-bcg-charging-handle/category/4098/[/url][/quote] First sentence he said he had an Armalite, so its a true AR-10. If it was me, I'd stick with the AR-10, but I'm a .308 kinda guy. In a shtf situation being able to rapidly put rounds on target at 800 yds would be a major game changer, and while its possible with a bolt gun, a semi-auto can do it faster and easier. Tapatalk ate my spelling. Edited January 19, 2014 by Spots

[DaveTN]

Thoughts, ideas?

I don’t see a question in there. I own all three so that would be my answer if you are questioning what you are doing.

I own an M&P15T and it would certainly go before my 308 Panther. No way would I get rid of a 308 AR so I could have two 223’s. I have a beautiful Remington 700 VLS in 308 for my long range rifle, but I think it would have to go before my 308 AR.

Here’s my thinking… the 308 AR is an all-around rifle. It’s a battle rifle, target rifle and hunting rifle. My .223 is a paper puncher, I don’t hunt but I would not use a .223 if I did. The 308 AR may not be as accurate as a bolt 308, but it could serve in that capacity if need be.

So I guess if I had to get rid of something I would suggest you sell the M&P15, throw down $400 for a M&P22 to swap back and forth with at the range with the wife, plus have something for cheap trigger time, throw the rest of the money on a Remington 700 and save up for the glass; all bases are covered.

But that’s just my thoughts and ideas.

[whitewolf001]

First sentence he said he had an Armalite, so its a true AR-10. If it was me, I'd stick with the AR-10, but I'm a .308 kinda guy. In a shtf situation being able to rapidly put rounds on target at 800 yds would be a major game changer, and while its possible with a bolt gun, a semi-auto can do it faster and easier. Tapatalk ate my spelling.

 

LMAO, I COMPLETELY missed that, hahaha. Well at 800 yards a bolt gun is going to be much more accurate at those distances. I would go by his idea and swap it out. The ammo weight .308 is ALOT to heft around. You're built for it Spots, they may not be. Besides, at least then you have parts and ammo commonality in their preps for it. Nothing wrong with a DMR BUT it's more meant for those intermediate ranges where a 5.56 is ineffective and you can get off quick follow up shots but beyond 800 yards is where a bolt gun is going to shine, not to mention, it's going to be ALOT lighter than a DMR. I want a .308 PDW like a PTR91 pistol myself so when the Schumer hits the fan, I can have a PDW ready. ^_^

[whitewolf001]

Is that AR-10 a "optics ready" model or does it have iron sights?

[Spots]

[quote name="whitewolf001" post="1097404" timestamp="1390092023"]LMAO, I COMPLETELY missed that, hahaha. Well at 800 yards a bolt gun is going to be much more accurate at those distances. I would go by his idea and swap it out. The ammo weight .308 is ALOT to heft around. You're built for it Spots, they may not be. Besides, at least then you have parts and ammo commonality in their preps for it. Nothing wrong with a DMR BUT it's more meant for those intermediate ranges where a 5.56 is ineffective and you can get off quick follow up shots but beyond 800 yards is where a bolt gun is going to shine, not to mention, it's going to be ALOT lighter than a DMR. I want a .308 PDW like a PTR91 pistol myself so when the Schumer hits the fan, I can have a PDW ready. ^_^[/quote] While I understand the ammo weight and parts stuff, I look at it like this. A .308 AR can be used for cqb effectively and will still reach out there better than a 5.56 AR. It can fill more roles effectively than a bolt gun or a 5.56 AR. Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[rugerla1]

Spots I agree with you on your thoughts on the .308 in AR platform. That was my main reason to get it. Like I said before, I don't know where the idea came up, I guess from thinking ahead for SHTF. And we all know you can never be 100% prepared, just as prepared as we can be.

 

Whitewolf, it's the optics ready. I'm taking it to the gun show with me in the morning, but I think I'll post it up in the classifieds here tonight just in case anyone here wants it, That will save me from luggin it around at the show tomorrow and I can just shop.

[rugerla1]

I don’t see a question in there. I own all three so that would be my answer if you are questioning what you are doing.

I own an M&P15T and it would certainly go before my 308 Panther. No way would I get rid of a 308 AR so I could have two 223’s. I have a beautiful Remington 700 VLS in 308 for my long range rifle, but I think it would have to go before my 308 AR.

Here’s my thinking… the 308 AR is an all-around rifle. It’s a battle rifle, target rifle and hunting rifle. My .223 is a paper puncher, I don’t hunt but I would not use a .223 if I did. The 308 AR may not be as accurate as a bolt 308, but it could serve in that capacity if need be.

So I guess if I had to get rid of something I would suggest you sell the M&P15, throw down $400 for a M&P22 to swap back and forth with at the range with the wife, plus have something for cheap trigger time, throw the rest of the money on a Remington 700 and save up for the glass; all bases are covered.

But that’s just my thoughts and ideas.

Good points. I really like the M&P and really don't want to get rid of it. I hope I'm going to miss the ArmaLite when it's gone (Unless I don't find a buyer). But when I have a good .308 bolt action, I can really put extra time into some long range shooting and be happy. I know the M&P is a pretty much standard AR to most and I want a higher quality one beside it for the option. I could easily talk myself out of it, but 3 guns I want to add are the Rem 700, possibly BCM AR, and a Glock 23 (will be my first Glock). Wish I had the funds to buy them all outright and keep everything I already have. Just not possible now or in the near future.

[whitewolf001]

BCM AR for the win. They are SUPERB quality for the money.

[atlas3025]

This all sound familiar. Sold an m1a and bought a 308 Rem 700 thinking it would be my long range gun...then decided 308 is much more of a mid range calibre...so bought Scar 17 for 308 and a Rem Sendero in 300win mag for playing at long range.

Be careful thinking about this stuff too much lol...it gets expensive!

[Spots]

[quote name="atlas3025" post="1097519" timestamp="1390101944"]This all sound familiar. Sold an m1a and bought a 308 Rem 700 thinking it would be my long range gun...then decided 308 is much more of a mid range calibre...so bought Scar 17 for 308 and a Rem Sendero in 300win mag for playing at long range. Be careful thinking about this stuff too much lol...it gets expensive![/quote] Word of advice for anyone reading this. If you value your current firearms, don't handle a SCAR heavy. Atlas was kind enough to let me handle his and after that I'd sell my first born to own one. Tapatalk ate my spelling.

[rugerla1]

This all sound familiar. Sold an m1a and bought a 308 Rem 700 thinking it would be my long range gun...then decided 308 is much more of a mid range calibre...so bought Scar 17 for 308 and a Rem Sendero in 300win mag for playing at long range.
Be careful thinking about this stuff too much lol...it gets expensive!

Yes, I drool about playing at long distances with a 300 win mag. Just too expensive when you don't reload. But they are sweet!!

[DaveTN]

Yes, I drool about playing at long distances with a 300 win mag. Just too expensive when you don't reload. But they are sweet!!

Unless you shoot beyond 1000 yards (where is that going to happen?) a 308 can do anything a 300WM can do except cost more to shoot and have heavier recoil. Your wife won’t want to shoot a 300WM, but then she probably won’t want much to do with a .308 bolt. Don’t forget that once you get the rifle you want it’s easy to put that same amount of money in a scope.

[Tempest455]

Ditto on the 300WM. I shot one (without a brake) and found is was not as much fun after 5-6 rounds. A .308 with a brake (even without) you can shoot all day long, and we do.

 

With an accurate rifle and accurate ammo, you can shoot .308 out to 1,100-1,200 yards effectively.

[mikegideon]

 Well at 800 yards a bolt gun is going to be much more accurate at those distances. 

 

I would say that you're way over-simplifying with that statement. Off the rack bolt guns are generally cheaper than gas guns. Here's a .308 gas gun with a .5 MOA guarantee out of the box.

 

http://www.lesbaer.com/AR308.html

 

Gas guns are a little harder to do. You can get better ultimate accuracy with a tweaked up bolt gun. Fact is though, once you get better than .5 MOA, the skill of the shooter get's real important. The AR platform wants to be accurate if you dump the milspec handguard and trigger, and use a decent barrel.

[Mark@Sea]

The issue with 308 at long range is induced yaw in the bullet.  A longer bullet gives a better BC.  The 6.5's work well at longer ranges without the recoil.

[mikegideon]

The issue with 308 at long range is induced yaw in the bullet.  A longer bullet gives a better BC.  The 6.5's work well at longer ranges without the recoil.

 

I'll quote Dolomite again..."6.5mm bullets are magic". If I was shooting an AR-10 platform, it would most likely be chambered in 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmore. I'm just starting to play with 6.5 Grendel in the AR-15 platform. So far, I'm just focusing on the 123g Lapua Scenar. Those things just don't wanna slow down.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

LIke Mike said..You got to be a good 'nuff shooter when reachin' out that far. I "had" that same SPS Tactical you're talkin' 'bout. Not the AAC one, though that had a 1:10 twist but the 1:12 twist. Get the AAC, "if" ya can find one so you can shoot the heavier bullets, too. That being said, mine was real damn accurate with 168 gr. or lower 168 is what I usually shot outt a mine and I could get 1 1/2" groups at 275 yds with a cheap BSA scope and that flexible Hogue (get a better stock) on a iffy, quick built table and I'm not a good long range shooter, at all, anymore but it's still good 'nuff to do the job if you can. They were tested to produce .3-.4 MOA groups @100yds, easily with Federal OTM ammo. BUT...if ya can get the money, somethin' like Mike said would be better. .5 is nothin' to sneeze at.

[mikegideon]

.3-.4 MOA is great accuracy. That's up there with some of the good bench rifles. You do have to be careful how you specify that kind of accuracy. 5 shot groups are tougher than 3 shot groups. The LB rifle linked above ships with a target with two 5 shot groups, guaranteed to be within .5. If you have a gun that can print .3" groups, but not all the time, then it ain't a .3 MOA gun. 

 

I haven't talked to my friend Froggy in awhile, but his criteria was 10 shot groups. That shakes out all the luck. Of course, you have to be a good enough shooter to make the shots. I accused him of being able to kill a squirrel at 500 yards with a 1911 :)

[Tempest455]

You know how accurate .308's can be? I watched a guy shoot a crow flying at 900 yards with one!  :)    Seriously.

 

I don't know if he comes on here but Alleycat was the one spotting for him. Was pretty funny. On his 3rd shot at 1,000 yard F class, the crow flew across the field and the bullet hit it, splitting the crow in two.

 

I still think about that often when I shoot long distance. What were the odds the crow and the bullet were in the same spot and the same time at that distance.

[mikegideon]

I killed a rabbit with a Daisy BB gun once. It was probably 20-25 yards. Not sure I could do it again.

[Tempest455]

I killed a rabbit with a Daisy BB gun once. It was probably 20-25 yards. Not sure I could do it again.

 

How does that relate to .308?

 

Yes, above person did that. He won the state F/TR title last year.

[mikegideon]

How does that relate to .308?

 

Yes, above person did that. He won the state F/TR title last year.

 

There was a lot of luck in the shot. I don't care what he won. Shooting a crow on the fly at 900 yards had some luck mixed in.

 

BTW... I didn't doubt you for a minute that he did it. I really did kill that rabbit.

Edited January 19, 2014 by mikegideon

[DaveTN]

Shooting a crow on the fly at 900 yards had some luck mixed in.

Not on the part of the crow.