Krav Maga

[tnguy]

Thinking of trying out the Krav Maga at Nashville Krav Maga. I'm a little skeptical about martial arts in general and Krav Maga seems like it may be a little faddy but I'm thinking it would be good to get some training in *something* and it sounds like it might be a more "realistic" kind of deal. Just wondering other peoples thoughts on it (and on the Nashville place in particular if anyone has any experience, either first or second hand).

[ShamGlock]

If I were in Nashville and looking to get into martial arts I would start looking at training Jiu Jitsu with Eric Silver. He is a black belt under Rickson Gracie, which is a very big deal in the Jiu Jitsu community. If you don't know much about Jiu Jitsu, or Rickson Gracie, you owe it to yourself to spend some time on google before you make the decision. His academy there is Zanshin I believe. Full disclosure; I have no affiliation to, or in no way know them over there. I've been on the mat with him a few times, and he has an excellent reputation as an instructor. 

 

You are correct to be aware of any fad in martial arts. Krav Maga is the flavor of the day, and I'm sure there is no shortage of places willing to take your money. This will be true in most martial arts though. What separates Jiu Jitsu for me is that you will actually be able to spar and prove to yourself that it is effective against a live, fully resisting opponent. Most martial arts can't say that. If you go to a place, and they give you a line about not practicing full speed because it's too deadly…walk out. If you have any other questions Id be glad to help. 

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Just some general advice.....

 

Krav can be good....or it can be the equivalent of israeli Tai Bo...depending on the instructor. Some places focus so much on the "getting in shape" aspect that they cover little in the truly combat effective realm. BUt the same can be said with most any martial art.

 

Keep in mind that the Krav that they teach the 2 year 18 yearr old conscripts is not the same thing they teach 30 year old SF guys. At 18 the males are still jockying for hierarchy and do not really have the filter to amp it down. By the time they are in an SF unit they are ostensibly matured enough to know how to be a good training partner and not destroy their team mates in training. At 18 that is normally not the case. And that is why not all Krav (or anything for that matter) is equal. If you teach all the joint destructions to 18 year olds you will have a bunch of injuries...

 

On the BJJ front, like with Judo,  you work against a live resisting opponent and that is good...but you are still working within the rules and constructs of the sport. And real street fights rarely have agreed upon rules. If you grab my gi and I hit you with a full power chin jab and a knee to the groin and follow it up with an axe hand to the back of your neck as you lurch forward you are probably going to the hospital....or worse.....and as such that cannot really be allowed in the dojo.SO you grab mine, I grab yours and we manuever for position...not strike each other.... So while BJJ does allow you to work with a resisting opponent it is still not a 1 for 1 approximation of what you are likely to encounter in a bar or an alley.

 

About the only thing that allows full power striking is boxing but even in boxing there are a lot of "foul blows" that are not allowed for good reason...because delivered at full speed they can maim and kill people....and the big gloves are there to protect the other guy more than there to protect your fists. 

 

My suggestion...give the Krav place a try and if that does not work out try the Bjj place. Just remember that NONE of them are an answer for EVERY problem and a mix of techniques is probably going to cover more bases. 

[TrickyNicky]

If your interested Krav Maga check out San Soo. Chuck Cory teaches in Nashville and has a good rep in the Kung fu world.

Cruel Hand Lukes post above is so good it should be read twice IMO. Know what kind of class your getting into, I see the students at a local krav school frequently, when I see them they are running laps in the parking lot with dumbells and medicine balls over their heads. I'm sure there is much more than that happening in the class but I'm not spending martial art money to build endurance, I'm doing it to learn body mechanics. Getting in shape is a side effect, but if that were my main focus I'd have a gym membership instead.

:2cents:

[E4 No More]

This subject is the martial arts version of caliber wars. Anything is better than nothing, so do what makes sense to you.

[E4 No More]

If your interested Krav Maga check out San Soo. Chuck Cory teaches in Nashville and has a good rep in the Kung fu world.

Cruel Hand Lukes post above is so good it should be read twice IMO. Know what kind of class your getting into, I see the students at a local krav school frequently, when I see them they are running laps in the parking lot with dumbells and medicine balls over their heads. I'm sure there is much more than that happening in the class but I'm not spending martial art money to build endurance, I'm doing it to learn body mechanics. Getting in shape is a side effect, but if that were my main focus I'd have a gym membership instead.

:2cents:

Yep, it's good.

[tnguy]

If your interested Krav Maga check out San Soo. Chuck Cory teaches in Nashville and has a good rep in the Kung fu world.

Cruel Hand Lukes post above is so good it should be read twice IMO. Know what kind of class your getting into, I see the students at a local krav school frequently, when I see them they are running laps in the parking lot with dumbells and medicine balls over their heads. I'm sure there is much more than that happening in the class but I'm not spending martial art money to build endurance, I'm doing it to learn body mechanics. Getting in shape is a side effect, but if that were my main focus I'd have a gym membership instead.

:2cents:

 

Is this the place I'm thinking of going? Please PM me if you'd rather not post in public if it is.

 

Planning on the first class tonight. It's two classes free apparently so won't hurt to go along. Err, I hope :)

Edited January 15, 2014 by tnguy

[Chris]

Let me know how it goes. I've been interested but have also been put off by the guys jogging laps in the parking lot.

[ncomarc]

This subject is the martial arts version of caliber wars. Anything is better than nothing, so do what makes sense to you.

+1

A lot of times the gym has the warm-up, strength and conditioning built in so your body can do the training and not get hurt. If you are not mildly fit then learning the technique is worthless - wether you like it or not your overall health plays a factor. I prefer BJJ, been practicing on and off for 10yrs and I recommend Shawn Hammonds at Nashville MMA. Haven't been there in years but he is a good instructor and very family orientated. The gym is pretty big so full of characters but it helps in seeking out guys that will guide you to the path you choose.
Either way get into something, if you go to the right gym you will not regret it. Now is a good time too, summer bodies are made in the winter.

[tnguy]

Well, having gone, it was actually kind of fun and I'll be going back for the second free class at least. No running round the parking lot (though some warm-up stuff). I think they have a krav-fit class that is presumably more cardio focused so maybe that is what it was. This was wrist breaks, choke hold breaking and straight punches.

 

I do already have a gym membership but I find gym work absolutely tedious. I actually got into running and did 5ks and dropped 30lb a few years back but ultimately it couldn't hold my interest. Something like this may be more my speed with the added benefit that it's likely to encourage gym work to up my fitness level.

 

They have all sorts of package deals but I think for now, I'll probably go for their 5-class-for $100 deal and go once a week and just hit the gym a few times throughout the week.

[tbenedict]

Definitely check out Krav if you are mainly after practicality. It usually comes down to who has the largest will to survive, but Krav techniques are not so complicated that you couldn't remember the basics if you quit training for a year. The very first thing they usually teach is a solid groin shot....

[dunndw]

I started taking Krav the first part of Jan. Instructors are pretty good. Finding out just how out of shape I truly am.

[ShamGlock]

What Cruel Hand said is very true in the sense that it outlines the specific differences in sport BJJ vs. Self Defense Gracie Jiu Jitsu. I personally find sport BJJ to be very much a better than nothing kind of thing, but if you are relying on grabbing the gi for self defense you have mis-calculated.

 

There is a very large difference between BJJ and self defense Jiu Jitsu. If you are training legitimate self defense Gracie Jiu jitsu you are getting training in surprise attacks standing, gun, stick, and knife defenses, clinching an opponent, and controlling the position and defending yourself on the ground, all while working toward finishing the fight. 

 

To me, the biggest advantage Gracie Jiu jitsu has over other arts is that it is the one art that can be effectively practiced 3-5 times a week against a fully resisting opponent. They are working to clinch and submit you, and you are working toward the same against them. If you don't know how to stay calm and survive in the worst possible places you could find yourself in during a fight, then you don't really know how to effectively defend yourself. 

 

This is very much the 9 vs 45 debate of the martial arts world. Clearly anything beats no training, but all else being equal, and I mean that we all operate under limited time and money, GJJ offers the most complete and practical self defense system.

[Guest hifiguy]

I've been involved in Krav in Nashville since it first arrived 6 years ago. First as a student and now as an instructor at Nashville Krav Maga.

I truly respect all of the fighting arts. I feel that much can be learned from all of them with the right mindset. No, not every technique is useful
in all of the arts, but you can discard what is not useful.


I was very drawn to km's effectiveness and simplicity immediately. The aggressiveness and intensity of normal Krav Maga classes lend themselves to improved safety and fitness.

tnguy, glad you enjoyed your first visit.

I don't want this to come across as guerilla marketing so David if it's inappropriate then by all means we can edit it, but I wanted to address some of the questions and observations.

At Nashville Krav Maga, which is the facility beside the Nashville Armory, there are multiple types of training available. The core of why we're there
is to provide real world and accessible self defense training to those who seek it. We are sanctioned by Krav Maga Worldwide and Krav Maga Alliance.
No belts, no ceremony, just learning how to overwhelm a threat with violence of action.

To improve upon what Krav offers in stand up, there are self defense based Jiu Jitsu classes available. While applicable in sport, these are trained
from a grappling in the parking lot perspective. Josh is good, really good, with a background in Judo and BJJ.

To be truly effective, you have to have a certain level of fitness. Functional fitness classes are offered and this is why you would see people running around the parking lot holding heavy stuff, doing lunges, and otherwise hopping around a lot. There is also heavy bag classes that allow you to work
Krav combatives in a heavy bag workout format. Lastly, there is a Yoga class. Yeah, I know... Seriously, it is run by one of the Krav students that
has a good feel for the type of flexibility required of fighting. It is more about keeping you flexible and injury free than about centering Chi and
chanting.

There is contact. The level of contact is somewhat determined by you and your training partner. Heavier contact is available during
weekly sparring classes.


Hope that helps.

[Chris]

Good info guys! Thanks!

[Links2k]

My buddy is a certified instructor and invited me out for a session. These guys weren't goofing around. We came in and spoke, took a lap around the complex to get our heart rates up and spent the rest of the time beating the crap out of one another. What I took away from my session is that this technique is meant to quickly and decisively end a fight. With several years of paying for private school coming to an end soon, I plan buy another motorcycle and enroll in a Krav Maga class.

[redstategunnut]

Thinking of trying out the Krav Maga at Nashville Krav Maga. I'm a little skeptical about martial arts in general and Krav Maga seems like it may be a little faddy but I'm thinking it would be good to get some training in *something* and it sounds like it might be a more "realistic" kind of deal. Just wondering other peoples thoughts on it (and on the Nashville place in particular if anyone has any experience, either first or second hand).

You're in Franklin. Come to Brentwood Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and train with champions. Seaboard Lane, right across from Costco. 

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

<<not much of one for the hand to hand stuff, always try to have some sort of weapon/OC. Hand to hand can get you hurt or worse. But, if it comes down to it...grapple, get inside, throat, eyes, back of the head, bend things the wrong way until they snap, bite, gouge, and keep doing it until the other guy stops moving.

[Bassoneer]

My son used to be into martial arts...he got a black belt in TaeKwonDo, but after a few years he wanted to try something else and we found a place here in Knoxville that teaches Krav Maga.  It is a place run by Terry Bullman, Bullman's Kickboxing and Krav Maga.  He also has a black belt in TaeKwonDo, and also has a black belt in Krav Maga which is somewhat more rare than TaeKwonDo.  He actually studied under one of the founders of Krav Maga.  Anyway...in Knoxville I would highly recommend his place.  They are much more serious than the TaeKwonDo stuff my son was taking...I used to go watch, and I recall one night he took the class out into an alley behind the school because "you will most likely not get into a confrontation in a gym".  It was pretty cool - he taught the folks how to defend themselves in a dark alley, which I thought was neat (but I told my son to stay out of dark alleys, ha).  Still had a pretty intense warm-up period with 50 push-ups and lots of running and things to get your heart going.  And they did a lot of wrestling type stuff on the mat (which my son did not like).  The kicks were less "pretty", but more effective I think...crude, but painful looking.  And it seemed that sometimes they would just repeat the kicks over and over quickly as if they were going to kick somebody's chest 4 or 5 times (maybe?).  So...that's my input from a proud father watching his 17 year old son...he was always exhausted after class.  I recall one night we left and he took off his shirt - he said he was covered in sweat, but it was not his (yuck).  Best wishes, B

 

PS, watch this fight...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdw0I62WcF4

Edited February 16, 2014 by Bassoneer

[mav]

Late last year I was looking to start some martial arts training.  I was initially looking at BJJ, but I decided against it because my stand-up fighting ability was pretty much nonexistent.  My thinking, while possibly incorrect, was realizing that I carry a knife and a gun at all times, and the last place I would want to be in a fight is on the ground.  I certainly don't want to take someone to the ground and run the risk of having one of those items taken from me.  It would suck to be me if that happened.  That scenario happened to my nephew and his boss.  They were fighting a shoplifter and the fight went to the ground.  The shoplifter got my nephew's knife from his pocket and he then stabbed both my nephew and his boss.  It was not pretty for either one of them.  With all that in my mind, I decided to focus on stand-up arts.  I started taking Shotokan and Hapkido.  Hapkido isn't entirely stand-up considering we do some throws and grappling.

 

Just out of curiosity, I asked my instructor about the possibility of getting sued and losing in court if I used a technique to break someone's wrist, leg, arm, etc... during an altercation.  He told me that it was a good possibility since I am receiving training, which is one of the reasons to do what you can to avoid an altercation if possible.  This goes back to some of the stuff I learned under Randy.  Be aware of your surroundings, do not escalate a situation, get off the x, and evade if possible.

 

I have found it quite ironic that I am more afraid now of getting into a serious altercation than I was before I had any training at all.  I am now more apt to retreat than stand my ground even though I am now more capable of defending myself with lethal and non-lethal force.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Mav, it all comes down to what you can articulate in court. If you had a reasonable fear of crippling bodily injury or death and they had the intent, means and opprtunity of delivering that grave bodily injury or death then you can certainlly respond with equal force. Police get training too. Yet it does not hurt them in court if they have to use htat training. In fact if you can argue why through your training that you KNEW just how little time you had to do something and how you recognized the signs of impending criminal assault then you are far ahead of the guy who's defense is "I shot him because I was scared".  "WHy were you scared?" ...Um...I don't know...I just was" ....good luck with that defense.

 

As to avoiding fights...that is ALWAYS plan A. If we can't avoid them then we try to run them off (either verbally deescalate - if possible- or make it obvious that you are a HARD target). Then if that does not work then plan C is to do what you have to do to survive. If I get taken to the ground I can make a logical legal argument as to why that would justify me choking someone out, breaking a bone , dislocating a joint, or depending on circumstances employing a weapon. The difference between the trained and untrained is panic. If you go to the ground and panic you may end up doing something that 12 jurors might see as excessive. If you go to the ground and do ONLY what you need to to get back up and get away then things just look better for you. But on the other hand if your last resort is to use lethal force then you'd be far better off being able to point to some training that had given you the wisdom to know why you should have been in fear of crippling injury or death in that particular moment and why lethal force was justified and prudent as opposed to "I was losing the fight so I pulled my gun" those are two COMPLETELY different things.

 

Lets keep things in perspective. As a private citizen you have NO legal duty to do ANYTHING to help anyone or to do anything at all. You have no duty to retreat either. You are pretty much going to be judged by the standard of what a reasonable man in your stuation would do based on the knowledge he possessed at the time. Sometimes the right answer is to use lethal force. More often though the answer is to not do dumb stuff out in public and don't go looking for fights and avoid a fight if you can do so without endangering yourself. I'm about as well trained in dealing with criminal assault as anyone and I will still go out of my way to avoid questionable situations that might even possible result in a fight if I can reasonably do so. Why? Because my training has taught me just how easy it is to get crippled or killed in violent physical confrontation and as such I'd rather not be the victim of the bad guys getting lucky. My only duty is to my family...and that is to get home safe. If I can do it without fighting all the better....but if I HAVE to fight then we simply do what must be done as quickly as possible ...depending on the situation...and the training is what helps us better read the situations and know the appropriate response. That does not just happen by osmosis.  

[Hershmeister]

Follow The first rule of Fight Club - dont talk about it!

[dunndw]

I'm 45, and the only shape I'm in is pear. I started Krav at a Hermitage gym, then the instructors and the gym couldn't work out things to keep the classes there so I went to Nashville Krav and took the intro classes. Missed a couple of weeks due to head colds, went back and joined yesterday. Kinda feels like I've jumped into the deep end of the pool, watching students from the earlier BJJ classes rush in and join the level 1 Krav classes but I'm planning on sticking it out. For me it's more of getting into shape and losing some of this keyboard fat :-) The skillset is a bonus IMHO. I get bored easy going to the gym by myself.

 

RE: the self defense aspects. It's the same thing I tell handgun carry permit students, do everything in your power to defuse the situation, drop some cash and run, give them the car, etc, whatever you can do safely to remove yourself from the situation...but never forget that once the time comes you have to be able to "flip the switch" and deliver some nasty high order violence on the person trying to main/kill/rape/rob you or your SO. I carry (at least one) gun, and a couple of knives. Krav might give me another tool in the toolbox. It will at least (hopefully) get be in shape enough that I can beat feet and get away before I'm wheezing and out of breath.

[Guest TresOsos]

tnguy, did you do your second class, how is this going?

[tnguy]

No. Unfortunately not. Kinda went into hibernation mode through the winter. Hoping to get things together enough to go again soon though.