Unarmed CCW Holder Hassled by LEO in MD for having a Permit to Carry

[TMF]

There is now no way to ship a handgun between unlicensed individuals assuming you follow both UPS and FedEx Terms of Service, and federal law. UPS changed theirs about 6 months ago to same as FedEx,  and of course you can't use USPS.
 
Both UPS and FedEx require notification of firearm in shipment, and federal law requires same for shipments not going to a licensee.
 
Even shipping a long gun through USPS is problematic too.
 
- OS

Never tried to mail one to myself before, but they are adamant about the FFL information. I suppose it would be at the discretion of UPS since it isn't against the law to mail a firearm to yourself, if it could be explained to management in a way they can understand. I mail long guns through them all the time.

[Dolomite_supafly]

USPS ships long guns without any problems. I have shipped several and even notified the postmaster I was shipping a firearm.

 

Federal law allows you to ship ANY firearm to yourself but finding a place to ship it might be a problem but it is legal to do so.

 

I understand that if it is going to someone else it has to go to a FFL but I wonder how USPS would rule if the receiver was the same as the shipper?

[Jonnin]

he needs to talk to his wife.   She should see how it works and learn to not be afraid of it and how to use it.  Honestly, she sounds like one of those liberals you see on TV, the ones that about pass out if you just walk up to em and yell GUN!.  

 

I think a lawsuit is in order.  But its probably wasted money --- the law is corrupt and it is nearly impossible to beat them in court unless someone was beat half to death or something way over the top.  A warning and a delay over a "misunderstanding" is "just doing his job" and so on.... it would not work here I think...

[Oh Shoot]

USPS ships long guns without any problems. I have shipped several and even notified the postmaster I was shipping a firearm.

Yep, that's how it's supposed to work, including intrastate shipment of a long gun to a non-licensee, or theoretically any firearm to yourself in any state,  but plenty of reports of hassles, depending on station and clerk.

 

I understand that if it is going to someone else it has to go to a FFL but I wonder how USPS would rule if the receiver was the same as the shipper?

 
Here is current UPS TOS:

"UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only
(a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and
( b ) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual."

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=firearms

 
- OS

Edited January 15, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[maddog909]

Another state on my list of places I'll never visit or drive through.

[Clod Stomper]

According to this article, FL licensee info is wide open to any LE agency.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2014/1/concealed-carry-licensee-gets-ungracious-reception-by-police-in-charm-city.aspx

So the cop sees an out of state plate where guns are common, runs the plate to get the owner info, which probably includes a picture of the registered owner. He finds out through FL that the owner has a license to carry. He then hangs out behind, beside and ahead of them for a bit to be sure that the same person is driving. He then decides to violate his rights and pulls him over.

I hope Mr. Filippidis gets rich over this. Yes from the taxpayers of maryland. They elected the jerks who pass the laws and hire the "enforcers".

[TMF]

I just can't believe there are cops out there just looking to harass an otherwise law abiding citizen. Isn't the reason folks go into law enforcement to catch bad guys?

[peejman]

I just can't believe there are cops out there just looking to harass an otherwise law abiding citizen. Isn't the reason folks go into law enforcement to catch bad guys?

So much for "to protect and serve"...

[RobertNashville]

I just can't believe there are cops out there just looking to harass an otherwise law abiding citizen. Isn't the reason folks go into law enforcement to catch bad guys?

Apparently, they've solved all other crime in Maryland.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

This is not a joke guys. Most places up north and the west coast are that crazy with gun laws ( there are some exceptions). Hell in Maryland you have to be mugged like three times to get a ccw and if you do get one for having a business and dealing with cash it will say on the permit "Only valid when conduction company business". More and more states seem to have these crazy ideas.

 

Last year Delaware did a total ban on private sales that you need to use an ffl unless the buyer has a ccw. You used to be able to dispose of your property anyway you see fit.

 

This year Maryland is trying to change their laws to '

1, require retreat, even in the home, before deadly force is used regardless of the situation.

2. making it a felony to not follow the directions of 911 operator ( see Zimmerman case"

 

Notice he did not take the gun because he was going to New Jersey. They have to be the most anti-gun state in the union ( with Illinois until they were required to issue permits)

[Guest carter]

why would it matter if he had a firearm or not...he's not a resident of that state so he doesn't have to have it registered there... plus if you're just passing thru a state and not staying for an extended amount of time you should be good to go...just store your firearm and ammo separately...maybe in a locked box where it's not readily accessible...   

[teecro]

why would it matter if he had a firearm or not...he's not a resident of that state so he doesn't have to have it registered there... plus if you're just passing thru a state and not staying for an extended amount of time you should be good to go...just store your firearm and ammo separately...maybe in a locked box where it's not readily accessible...   

 

This is where and why one needs to be really careful as there are states that have totally fudged up views and laws concerning guns; many states are even willing to ignore federal laws and arrest you for having a gun in transport mode. They absolutely do not care that they have violated your federal rights...

[Guest copperhead_1911]

why would it matter if he had a firearm or not...he's not a resident of that state so he doesn't have to have it registered there... plus if you're just passing thru a state and not staying for an extended amount of time you should be good to go...just store your firearm and ammo separately...maybe in a locked box where it's not readily accessible...   

Maryland does not recognize other states permits ( except the ones retired cops get) so if he had it on him or loaded he would have been screwed. If he had it stored for travel he would be ok. At one point they would charge you in Maryland for having loaded magazines in a separate place from the gun.

[Guest carter]

Maryland does not recognize other states permits ( except the ones retired cops get) so if he had it on him or loaded he would have been screwed. If he had it stored for travel he would be ok. At one point they would charge you in Maryland for having loaded magazines in a separate place from the gun.

Gun Owner's Protection Act of 1986--

One of the law's provisions was that persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas), provided that the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container.^[8]

Under this provision, someone driving from Virginia to a competition in Vermont with a locked hard case containing an unloaded handgun and a box of ammunition in the trunk could not be prosecuted in New Jersey or New York City for illegal possession of a handgun provided that the individual did not stop in New Jersey or New York for an extended period of time.

See 18 USC § 926A http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A

[RobertNashville]

They are still prosecuted in NY and I'm pretty sure they were in Illinois as well (although maybe not now).

[Worriedman]

I fly into Baltimore a lot on my way to West Virginia.  I have to leave my handgun in my suitcase, locked in its legal to fly with hard case, and the suitcase locked.  I stop at the "Welcome" sign just inside in WV, get it out and load it.  On my way back out, I stop just inside the WV line and reverse procedure.  So far, they have not started pulling over rental cars...

 

You can tell it really aggravates the folks at the airport that I am checking a weapon when I go back out, but no more so than it does in Austin, TX. 

[R_Bert]

I always wonder what happens if you get diverted to NY or NJ overnight.

 

Several passengers have made the mistake of collecting their firearms, then getting busted the next morning checking back in to continue their journey.

 

Do you just abandon the suitcase to custody of the  airport ?  (Usually you have to pick your firearm luggage up in a chain-of-custody procedure).

[Worriedman]

I keep my meds and a fresh pair of undies in my briefcase, if I get shunted off to one of those airports, I am not taking possession of my checked bag.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Worriedman

[Worriedman]

Reading all this gives me pause.  The TSA allows ammunition in the same locked travel case, as long as there is none in the magazine or loaded in the chamber or cylinder.  Their requirements are ammo must be stored in a factory or "approved" box (I always carry a MTD hard box inside the locked case).

 

Could the State of Maryland give me "stuff" because the weapon and ammo are not separated?

[BigK]

Awesome. I wouldn't think that CCP/HCP information would be shared between states. I don't like that. I have to travel through the occupied states this summer (MD, NJ, NY). I hate hate hate going up there.

 

I'd imagine that FL has their database wide open to facilitate reciprocity with friendly states. Hostile states may have access also, because of this, but not sure.

 

This is a good reason why we need to be as litigious as possible. Cost these departments enough money in legal fees and settlements and they'll get the message that this kind of stuff doesn't fly.

 

I agree...sticks it to the taxpayers, who elect officials, who appoint idiots, who hire officers, who operate like this. Hopefully everyone in the chain gets the picture and rethinks things, but sadly, I doubt it.

[teecro]

They are still prosecuted in NY and I'm pretty sure they were in Illinois as well (although maybe not now).

 

FYI It's been a non issue flying in and out of O'Hare for a number of years... I did it myself in 2011 & 2013 counter help nor TSA so much as raised an eyebrow.

Edited January 21, 2014 by teecro

[Clod Stomper]

If this is true, it was all automated.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/01/16/driving-through-maryland-how-the-lawful-florida-gun-owner-was-targeted-hint-maryland-coordination-and-analysis-center/

[RobertNashville]

If this is true, it was all automated.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/01/16/driving-through-maryland-how-the-lawful-florida-gun-owner-was-targeted-hint-maryland-coordination-and-analysis-center/

I think that article is missing the point or what should be the concern here which is not that Maryland knew that this person had a weapon's permit and/or assumed he was armed...the real issue is how does that translate into supporting a traffic stop in the first place much less being detained for that long and having his vehicle searched...THAT should cause the outrage and THAT is what I hope translates into some serious embarrassment and COSTS for the State of Maryland and costs to the LEOs that participated.

[Clod Stomper]

I think that article is missing the point or what should be the concern here which is not that Maryland knew that this person had a weapon's permit and/or assumed he was armed...the real issue is how does that translate into supporting a traffic stop in the first place much less being detained for that long and having his vehicle searched...THAT should cause the outrage and THAT is what I hope translates into some serious embarrassment and COSTS for the State of Maryland and costs to the LEOs that participated.

 

Agreed.

 

Edit:  I think both issues should be of concern.  

Edited January 25, 2014 by Clod Stomper