I hate to admit this.....

[Guest TankerHC]

Jerry, welcome to the club...  I ended up joining about 6 years ago...  I've never completely agreed with Ron Paul's thoughts on National Defense...  but listening to him opened up my eyes some...  You're never going to agree with a candidate 100% of the time, IMHO you need to find somebody you agree with most of the time, and hope they'll stay true to their beliefs once in office.

 

The truth is libertarians come in all shapes and sizes, and we don't all agree with each other :)  Some are against strong borders and immigration policy... some of us aren't for it.

 

The national defense issues...  we just have to look for common ground...  My opinion is there is a lot of waste, fraud and abuse in the current DoD budget...  You were in the military I'm sure you saw waste all the time...  There are all sorts of programs the military isn't even asking for that could be cut... How much, I don't know, my guess 30+% of the budget could be cut and not impact our ability to fight...  maybe it's a little less, maybe it's a lot more...  but the military shouldn't be a serving dish for corporate welfare...  it's one of the few things the federal government does that is authorized under the constitution and we should be careful not to waste money on it.

 

We also don't really need 900 military based outside the country....  Doesn't mean we need to close all of them down...  but how many do we really need?  maybe 100?  These act as a de facto foreign aide to countries who can afford their own security...  We're spending US tax dollars to protect Germany, so they don't have to spend their GDP on their own military...  I'm not saying we don't need to do that...  but first off we shouldn't be paying for the privilege...  Germany should be providing the bases for free, and should be shoulder most of the cost.

 

Anyhow welcome to the club..  feel free to PM me if you feel the need...  once your mind starts down this path it can be a little shocking how you're world view on a topic can change suddenly :)  Truth is we're so out numbered on here we should start a support group...  I'm sure 6.8 and Chuck would join as well ;)

 

Aint that an understatement.

[mikegideon]

So you're not a member of the NRA?  :stir:

 

You know I am... lifer at that :). National popularity contests are different than anything else. I did note, though, that there weren't any Democraps speaking at the NRA convention. I would vote libertarian in a heartbeat if they stood a chance of winning. If not, I'll vote Republican. I LIKE my guns, and HATE electric cars. :)

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Until Congress is cleaned up, it won't matter the Prez. Hell, look at all the EOs that The Idiot Supreme tried to pull and most were futile in the end. The problem is that bunch of piss ants on the HIll then the Prez but mostly, it's global business interests that run the show and you know how ruthless they are, so how do ya beat that? You can vote how ya want but if GBI don't get their way, it don't happen. Simple as that. Money does indeed talk and loudly.

[RobertNashville]

I am most definitely not a Libertarian/libertarian and, unless they change I never will be.  There are many issues on which they and I can agree but on the ones I don't agree with I will never agree with and they are too important to me to ever compromise.

 

I am also not a Republican. If I'm forced to classify myself I am an unapologetic conservative and independent of any party.

[E4 No More]

When you find someone that agrees with you 100% of the time you need to realize that you're looking into a mirror.

[Raoul]

When you find someone that agrees with you 100% of the time you need to realize that you're looking into a mirror.

I don't even agree with myself anymore.

[E4 No More]

I don't even agree with myself anymore.

Dementia not withstanding. :)

[Raoul]

Dementia not withstanding. :)

 

I figure I'm safe as long as I'm contrary.

[DaveTN]

Several thing's that amuse me, but is not really amusing at all, it just shows the sad state of our Country. 
 
Half of this country are unable to put together more than two coherent, meaningless sentences.
 
A large part of the citizens of this country believe what the Politicians want them to believe, you cant change Government. And then make comments such as "I don't like any of them, so I will sit this one out, no one is going to get my vote". Not even realizing they just helped to change Government.
 
People complaining that there are no alternatives to the people they keep re-electing, then ridicule and complain when an alternative does appear.
 
People complaining about a lack of Patriots, and asking "why doesn't someone step up to the plate", when all they have to do is look in the mirror, and there is a good chance they will find him..or her. Is there anyone here other than me that realizes you do not have to be a lawyer, or even have a High School diploma to run for Congress? Just ask Representative Soloman Ortiz, who doesn't even have a High School diploma, or the other 30 or so House Members and Senators who do not have a College Degree. 
 
The number of people who believe we are stuck between two Parties, so we are, it is self fulfilling. So these people are getting what they want, then they complain about it.
 
The people who have all day long to sit around and watch TV, and all night to watch reality shows, and plenty of time for Facebook and Twitter, but no time to actively participate in the process. These are the same people who say they cannot participate because "some of us have a job". Harry S. Truman had a name for the 80th Congress. That name fits this type of American perfectly.
 
Then there are the Americans who believe that anyone who would change parties should change it on a whim, because in their eyes, anyone who doesn't, is just plain stupid and is too stupid to get it and is the reason why this Country is in a mess. These American's (Those who think the others are stupid) are Patriots, they want smaller government, lower taxes, they want America to be strong again, they want jobs, they want this and that. Then they bash Reagan, not even realizing everything they want, they got, with Reagan and Newt Gingrich (Who held Clinton's feet to the fire and wrote those Bill's that led to 22 years of economic growth), not even realizing that they are Reagan Republicans whether they want to admit it or not. And oh yea, Reagan was a Conservative, and a Democrat for 17 years. 
 
There are plenty of American Patriots today, I see them and speak to them in person or on the phone in several different States daily. I see them right here, whenever I log on, and many other places. I have met at least 30 members of this Forum alone, in all but two meetings we ended up talking for 2-4 hours. just speaking to them, no doubt in my mind, they are Patriots to a man, I ran into another one of these members in Sams Club last week, another three hour conversation. I am sure that we do not agree on everything, but one thing we most certainly agree on, we need to make changes, and we CAN make changes. And all of the naysayers and do nothings are the problem. As far as I am concerned, the way I see it, to say that we are stuck between two parties, that we cant change Government, that no matter what we do it will stay the same, is the same as surrendering.
 
Other people can if they want to, but I'm not surrendering to anyone.
 
This fight isn't over, until its over and we occupy the objective.

It isn’t that people won’t step up; it’s that many of them can’t and a lot of them refuse to deal with the scrutiny.

I have told several times I should run for office; I have most of the answers. But I told them I would have to start with “Well, all that stuff you have heard about me; it’s true, now let’s move on”.

You could pick anyone you like (That has a chance of getting elected) and someone on this forum will bad mouth the crap out of them. We all have different ideas and many have our own little pet projects.

It’s a give and take. I’m a conservative Republican that believes I have a right to carry a gun (I just don’t happen to believe that right comes solely from the 2nd amendment). My main interest is the economy; it is the root of our hardships problems and separation as a country. It impacts the family unit, the community and causes crime. However, I would vote for a liberal Democrat if he had the ideas to put this country back to work. Of course that won’t happen…. But I’m just saying.

But you can’t make the announcement you are a libertarian and expect a bunch of glad handing and high fiving. Many of us would like to see smaller government; but that doesn’t mean we are libertarian. Rand Paul is a Libertarian but he is a member of the Republican Party. Could Rand Paul be President? Well I think right now his inexperience would be the issue; but it would depend on who was running against him. But I think he would have a chance. If he ran on the Libertarian ticket he would have no chance.

I didn’t mean my post to be an insult; sorry if you took it that way. My point was fact. Not many Libertarians would vote democratic; in a two party system most would vote Republican. If I was running for President on the Democratic ticket I would hope Rand Paul would run as a Libertarian. I would pay Rand Paul to run as a Libertarian.

They haven't really started ripping on Rand yet. Will he be able to weather the storm of being put under a microscope?

And why on earth would I want to put together more than two coherent, meaningless sentences.

Edited January 14, 2014 by DaveTN

[East_TN_Patriot]

Hi Jerry, I’m glad you found a label you could attach to yourself. But remember this when you are in that voting both for the Presidential election you are so concerned about…. The President is going to be a Democratic or Republican.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct. But it's not because a Libertarian candidate can't win; it's because most voters are sheep that are so brainwashed by the two-party system, they are unable to believe that a Libertarian can win. If every single person would vote their conscience and not for the candidate the pundits or establishment politicians want you to vote for, the Libertarian would win by a landslide.

[Chucktshoes]

Welcome to the small cabal of people plotting to take over the world, and then leave everyone alone.

[RobertNashville]

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct. But it's not because a Libertarian candidate can't win; it's because most voters are sheep that are so brainwashed by the two-party system, they are unable to believe that a Libertarian can win. If every single person would vote their conscience and not for the candidate the pundits or establishment politicians want you to vote for, the Libertarian would win by a landslide.

True but it's also true that the Libertarians also have to put forth a candidate that those people can, in good conscious, vote for. I've yet to see a Libertarian presidential candidate that I could, in good conscious, vote for and that is truly a better choice than the other candidates...maybe in 2016.   :shrug:

Edited January 14, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Chucktshoes]

Robert, have you looked into the Constitution Party?

[Worriedman]

It isn’t that people won’t step up; it’s that many of them can’t and a lot of them refuse to deal with the scrutiny.

I have told several times I should run for office; I have most of the answers. But I told them I would have to start with “Well, all that stuff you have heard about me; it’s true, now let’s move on”.

 

Dave, speaking of scrutiny.

Less than 12 hours after "pulling" papers for a State Representative race, I was contacted and it was described to me how my families' life was going to be dissected and put on display.  I am sure that just because the Republicans were in the ascendancy at the time it was their henchmen who were making those promises of "oppositional research", had there been a Democratic majority I am more than sure they would have been the ones protecting home base.

The more I deal with our state legislature, them more jaded my view of all this is.  The most honest one I have dealt with was the one who stated in a meeting that he did not care one whit what the Constitution said, he always voted through a screen of how much the issue made the people who elected him, or rather, contributed money to getting him elected.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Worriedman

[RobertNashville]

Robert, have you looked into the Constitution Party?

I'm aware of them and I've had some pretty heated discussions with a couple of members (the discussions didn't do anything to engender the party to me) but it really doesn't matter nor is there is there a reason for me to look into them because I don't give a rat's *** about "party"...ALL I care about is finding candidates that share my core principles or at least enough of them that I can vote for them with a clear conscious.

 

To that end I'll for a Democrat, a Republican or anyone of any party or no party!

Edited January 14, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Moped]

I'm an Independent with Liberatarian leanings, for all the reasons described in this thread!  I used to be a Republican, until I realized they are just like the Democrats.

 

Welcome to the small cabal of people plotting to take over the world, and then leave everyone alone.

 

Love this! :D  So true!!!

Edited January 14, 2014 by Moped

[mikegideon]

I'm an Independent with Liberatarian leanings, for all the reasons described in this thread!  I used to be a Republican, until I realized they are just like the Democrats.

 

 

Love this! :D  So true!!!

 

They're not just like the Democrats. Democrats want to disarm us. Now, I suppose it's OK to believe that some politician of ANY ilk is gonna do something right, if we only get the right one. Hell, it's OK to believe in lots of things.

 

But, Libertarians should quit saying that they're the same. They're NOT. If the country was ruled 100% by Democrats, we would be hunting squirrels with slingshots. I don't expect ANY of those assholes (politicians) to save the world, Libertarians included. So, I'll just keep it small. I want to keep my guns.

[Moped]

Yeah they are.  They just have different causes.  I also gaurentee you that a significant minority of the Republican party either is anti-gun or pro gun control, just as a sugnificant minority in the Democratic Party is pro 2A.  Thank God for both Pro 2A groups!

 

My problem is that members of both parties seem to care more about their party, than they care about the country.  And to me, they've both done more harm to this country, than good.  The Democrats want to spend us to death and re-distribute wealth and the Republicans gave us the Patriot Act and they want to spend, spend, spend too.  Neither party wants to balance anything, because money is power and the more money they spend, the more power they have as long as they control the Federal Government.

[Guest Cazador]

For many years I thought I was a Republican. Then I realized I was in conflict with some of the issues the were promoting. I was feeling like my party was abandoning me or at least straying from the conservative values I was attracted to. I came across a test that would identify your beliefs to a party affiliation. Turns out I was not a republican after all but a Liberatarian. I realized that the party would have a difficult time ever winning the White House. The one way this can be accomplished is thru infiltration. The Republican party claims to have conservative ideals and many people will vote for the party. They are ripe for infiltration especially after the last 6 years and 7 trillion in dept. Obama ran as a moderate Dem promising to bring the country back to the center and pointing out how Bush had departed from the Republican way. I believe we just need more Liberatarians run as Republicans.

[Moped]

I agree with that. But the small Libertarian elements presently in the Republican party are starting to be attacked by the Republican Old Guard in conjunction with Big Business; i.e. The U.S.Chamber of Commerce, who declared they will no longer support certain candidates. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Guest Cazador]

Piss on the old guard. The McCains, Beohners, Bidens and Pelosi's need to go. We need to get back to a govt by the people for the people. We need People to go to Washington to represent us. We don't need politicians. We need term limits. We need to flush all of them. I would give every one there now their lifetime package to get the hell out. start over and erase all those benefits. Then they would go there and try to make it a better country. Because in 8 years they would be fending like the rest of us to make a living., Obama said the right things, it was all BS, line item vetos, no more lobbyists, get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We don't need to build countries. Our military needs to be feared world over. People need to believe there is a Man in the office and he will nuke your ass if you get out of line. I don't give at rat's ass if anyone on this globe loves us. They had best fear us. Take NAFTA and shove it up every politicians ass that voted for it. If big business wants free trade tell them to pack it up their rear. Free trade with third world countries is a joke. Stop these big money packs that come up with a billion dollars to get a politician elected. All of our elected officials should sign a contract with the people that they will not represent big business in while in office and be banned from accepting a job with them after their term in office. Where we are today will take 50 years to unfrigg if we do a 180 now. Can't wait to see what the next 3 years are gonna bring.

[JayC]

Ummm...  I'm not sure what 'test' you took...  but virtually none of these positions are inline with the Libertarian ideals....

 

No offense, but you're focusing on problems, not the cause of those problems...  The reason big businesses help politicians get elected is because the government is so big, so regulates so much...  take away the size and scope of government and big business doesn't care about politicians.  

 

Free trade is good for us, and the other country...  whats bad?  All the unneeded regulation and added costs of doing business in the United States.  Imagine what a burden it is on a business owner that it's cheaper to ship products from half way around the world to here at a cheaper cost per item?  Also, trade creates peace...  People are much less likely to go to war with people they trade with.

 

As for your military policy...  We need to have a strong national DEFENSE, countries should know that attacking us will result in them loosing...  but we don't need a borderline mad man in the Oval office to do that....  We for sure don't need troops stationed all over the world to protect us at home.

 

There are some simple questions we should be asking ourselves...  We do we only have 435 Representatives today?  How did we get that number, and why is it so small?  When this country was founded a Congressman represented about 35,000 people...  In 1910 we stopped adding seats, yet our population has ballooned...  Today some house districts represent over 1 million people...  The average being somewhere around 750,000....  

 

If we just increased the number of representative so that each represented 175,000 - before the freeze in 1910, we'd have 1715 Representatives...  TN would have 37 Representatives in the House...  If we we back to traditional numbers BEFORE congress started to mess with the ratio (bet you can't guess which President did that?)...  We'd be looking at 6,000 Representatives and TN would have 129 Representatives...

 

It's easy to buy off 218 congressmen...  how easy is it to buy off 857 or 3,001?  Also by having such a large number of representatives you'd see a much more diverse parties...  More importantly, getting 800+ or 3000+ people to agree on something would be next to impossible...  it would be like herding cats...  and government would stop passing a lot of laws :)

 

Piss on the old guard. The McCains, Beohners, Bidens and Pelosi's need to go. We need to get back to a govt by the people for the people. We need People to go to Washington to represent us. We don't need politicians. We need term limits. We need to flush all of them. I would give every one there now their lifetime package to get the hell out. start over and erase all those benefits. Then they would go there and try to make it a better country. Because in 8 years they would be fending like the rest of us to make a living., Obama said the right things, it was all BS, line item vetos, no more lobbyists, get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We don't need to build countries. Our military needs to be feared world over. People need to believe there is a Man in the office and he will nuke your ass if you get out of line. I don't give at rat's ass if anyone on this globe loves us. They had best fear us. Take NAFTA and shove it up every politicians ass that voted for it. If big business wants free trade tell them to pack it up their rear. Free trade with third world countries is a joke. Stop these big money packs that come up with a billion dollars to get a politician elected. All of our elected officials should sign a contract with the people that they will not represent big business in while in office and be banned from accepting a job with them after their term in office. Where we are today will take 50 years to unfrigg if we do a 180 now. Can't wait to see what the next 3 years are gonna bring.