I hate to admit this.....

[Guest TankerHC]

Notice: Long, think Ill start another blog soon...but this is a Political Subforum

 

Let me preface by saying that whoever the nominee is, as long as they are against Hillary, Ill vote for him...or her. I wont vote for Hillary by throwing away my vote by not voting at all.

 

I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hate to admit this, "Hi, My name is Jerry...and I'm a Libertarian".

 

I always felt Libertarians were in serious need of a 12 step program. Well they have one, its a 7 Step program, its called the 7 Articles of The US Constitution.

 

Every single day I look at the Republican Party and see that I  can no longer call myself a "Conservative Republican" because Republicans are not Conservative except for maybe 9 or 10 of them. Of those 9 or 10, nearly every single stance they take is Libertarian, not Republican. Look at those Republicans like Boehner on C-Span, watch the interviews and read the bills they pass and they are "Republican" in no shape, form or fashion. They are Progressives and they could give one rats behind about The Republic and should be embarrassed for using the name.  

 

I get asked all the time "Are you a Republican?', yep, Conservative Republican, ULTRA Conservative Republican. Nope, Libertarian. Dammit. The only real issue I ever really had was the Libertarian stance on National Defense. During Ron Pauls campaign and everything Libertarians were saying, it sounded more like self containment and to stay that way until someone attacked us. That Policy Stance was clarified a few weeks ago by one of the Libertarian leaders. And has nothing to do with self containment and everything to do with making our enemies fear us again, being prepared and if threatened or attacked to respond accordingly, with the firepower that IS at our disposal and if we go to fight, fight to win and get it over with. That has been how I felt about it for years. Maybe the Libertarians changed their position on National Defense, or maybe it was a lack of clarity by the Libertarians. Maybe one of you old time Libertarians can clear that up. The old policy sounded (to me) like back off, bring everyone home and do nothing but wait to be attacked. The new Policy, if I read it right, is just that, we aren't going to try to get in the business of failed Nation States and prop up dictators, but if you screw with us, we will be prepared to respond accordingly. The Officers I served under, that was their Policy, because that was the Policy of the Presidents who signed their Commissions. Ron Paul being a military man and Commissioned Officer, maybe that is what he was trying to say all along. Ya got me..

 

 

I have been debating this for two or three weeks. Since I read that. For me, it is no small deal to just all of a sudden, after 40 years, say that I am a Libertarian and agree with their stance and positions on almost everything, especially since I have turned a bunch of my family members opinion from Democrat to Republican and for the last two Presidential elections have been talking down the Libertarians. Third party, going to cost us the Country, nutcases on National Defense, etc etc....

 

 

So I am looking today through the Political news, guess what? After spending 3 days of them completely bashing Christie, the first article I come across is NBC Politics exhorting the wonderful attributes of Chris Christie. Apparently they realized they almost screwed THEIR Candidate. For reference they interviewed Rick Perry and Mitt Romney's Campaign Managers, two Political mental midgets. What does the article by Carlo Alligri, a damn Socialist himself, in the article do? Quotes Romney's Campaign manager on Christie "Oh, he will be just fine". The headline is that early States are still high on Christie. Then, speaking to someone I know that is highly informed on Politics last night, tells me who he thinks will be the Candidates. "It will be either Christie or Huckabee, more Huckabee, set up to lose to Clinton". I'm pretty sure I saw that same thing posted yesterday right here by someone who's Political post I read through all the time.For me, Huckabee hasn't even been on the radar. 

 

So why wont it be Rand Paul? I take a look to see if they have started bashing him yet. One line in the article. Paul is the most active Presidential Candidate in three of the top key states, RIGHT NOW. Wow, a "Republican" who is actually doing something other than helping to destroy the Country. Getting prepared. Even before the Democrats. So did the bashing begin? Three months ago, the Plagiarism thing broke, it died, they couldn't really find anything wrong with it considering what he did, most writers do. Then they tried to create something out of his Medical Credentials, this was a month later in November. Well that was dropped, they couldn't find anything wrong with what he did. Forming your own Certification Board in this Country is not against the law. Then I see last month they tried to tie him to the Amgen back door deal. Didn't work, he isn't even connected to it. They tried connecting him to his fathers Politics, didnt work, Ron Paul has already done an interview where he said he was staying out of it just for that reason. WOW again, a Candidate the Left cannot find anything wrong with? I am sure they will make something up.

 

So if Paul were somehow to become the nominee, who would be his running mate? Ramblings about Cruz, Rubio, Ryan and West. The National Journal, again exhorting Christie. They WANT him to be the Candidate. But saying Paul, Cruz and Rubio would be a mistake because their Polls are at all time lows. Who are they kidding? Every article about a Paul candidacy is played down. They cannot find anything wrong with him. On West, no MSM outlet is saying anything when West is clearly in this, West has been active longer than Paul and is financially backing 3 Veterans for Congress, all Conservatives.. But on Cruz and Cantor, a lot, all negative. Paul has made nearly no comments on West, West commented negatively, early about Paul and Cruz's support of bringing in outside Investigators to the military to investigate sexual assaults. After Paul's filibuster (Or attempted filibuster) West had nothing but glowing comments. Said Paul had crystallized the right by standing up. 

 

My name is Jerry...and I'm a Libertarian. And I plan on bringing around 40 with me. 

Edited January 12, 2014 by TankerHC

[hipower]

I see no problem with your thinking. With the scant differences within the mainstream of both parties, it's really just done to the least offensive in the race.

Edited January 12, 2014 by hipower

[tnhawk]

The democrats have the full resources of the federal government (FBI, IRS, NSA) at their disposal to destroy any viable candidate who opposes them.

[BrasilNuts]

Hi Jerry.

[DaveTN]

"Hi, My name is Jerry...and I'm a Libertarian".

Hi Jerry, I’m glad you found a label you could attach to yourself. But remember this when you are in that voting both for the Presidential election you are so concerned about…. The President is going to be a Democratic or Republican.

[Guest TankerHC]

I see no problem with your thinking. With the scant differences within the mainstream of both parties, it's really just done to the least offensive in the race.

 

I have never and could never support the Democrats, unless they all somehow miraculously turned into Goldwater Southern Blue Dogs. I dont see that happening. I feel the same way about the Republicans. 

[Guest TankerHC]

Hi Jerry, I’m glad you found a label you could attach to yourself. But remember this when you are in that voting both for the Presidential election you are so concerned about…. The President is going to be a Democratic or Republican.

 

 

Dave, call Paul, Cruz or West martians, they are Conservatives. They hold the Libertarian stance. They have nothing in common with the current Republican Majority. That is why Boehner verbally slammed them to the press. In fact that is why last month the RNC said they wouldnt even support them. 

 

But if Christie or Huckabee or even Bachmann were to somehow win the nomination, I would have to vote for them, against the Liberal. 

 

Should also note that it is not a label. The way I feel about this Country has zero to do with labels. But it does have everything to do with common ground. If I were a preacher, when it comes to the Constitution, they would call me a Fundamentalist. 

Edited January 13, 2014 by TankerHC

[Guest mrstaylor0602]

At this point, if you haven't realized both parties are essentially the same and merely use talking points to distract the public while looting from it, you are either a dupe or a dope.

[Links2k]

At this point, if you haven't realized both parties are essentially the same and merely use talking points to distract the public while looting from it, you are either a dupe or a dope.

I'm surprised that this is still a secret. It shows how effective they have been.

[Guest TresOsos]

Hi Jerry, I’m glad you found a label you could attach to yourself. But remember this when you are in that voting both for the Presidential election you are so concerned about…. The President is going to be a Democratic or Republican.

And this is why we will never fix this situation via the voting booth.

[Guest TankerHC]

Thanks for all the insults. The fact is there was a time when the Republican Party was a Conservative Party. I would say it was even up to early last year. It was not until Cruz began making waves that the Progressive Republicans began showing their true colors. Keep in mind that over and over Boehner was backed by the Tea Party, now they are mobilizing to throw him out. 

 

For those throwing the insults. And making the insulting comments about the polls. What exactly have YOU done other than show up to cast a vote? Because I have done a hell of a lot more than that. Disagreeing is one thing, show me what you have done other than cast votes for losing candidates. 

 

That is why we will never fix this thing at the polls, because people think bitching about it on forums and Facebook, and casting one vote will get a Candidate elected. 

Edited January 13, 2014 by TankerHC

[Guest TankerHC]

Almost forgot, the other thing is 6 in 10 whine and complain about it, do nothing and dont even bother to show at the polls. Then complain about it some more afterwards. 333,000 votes over four key states and we wouldnt be in this mess. 

[Guest TankerHC]

Since I mentioned it, Ill mention it some more. Here are SOME things you can do. Forget the insults. DO SOMETHING. 

 

Sign on to be an NRA-ILA Campaign Field Representative. 

 

Man the phones. You can do it right from your house, in your spare time, on your home phone, with a Campaign number that the Campaign for the Candidate you represent will set up, at no charge.

 

Knock on doors, TALK, your Candidate will tell you how to do it, if you dont know how.

 

Show up at the Rally's, find out what needs to be done, AND DO IT.

 

Do you have skills? Technical skills? The biggest reason we lost last time was because of lack of tech, the smart guys were too busy. 

 

VOTE, get people to the Polls.

 

There is no excuse this time. Not in the mid terms and not begining in January. Well I have a message. Some of you older guys may remember this message.

 

NOW is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their Country.

 

Don't do it, and you wont have a Country. 

 

That is the last I will say about it, if the best we have is a bunch of insults, 4 in 10 showing at the polls and 80% of incumbents re-elected, then who cares, the Country is gone anyway.

Edited January 13, 2014 by TankerHC

[LagerHead]

Hi Jerry, I’m glad you found a label you could attach to yourself. But remember this when you are in that voting both for the Presidential election you are so concerned about…. The President is going to be a Democratic or Republican.

 

This is only true because people listen to the Democrats and Republicans who continually tell them such things as, "This is the most important election of our lifetime," or "If you vote for <the other guys> you're throwing your vote away." The truth is, I couldn't possibly care less what they have to say. I will vote my conscience and sleep well at night, even if that means voting Libertarian. I'll be damned if I'll let a slimy, greasy, bought-and-paid-for politician whose only ambition in life is to climb higher on the taxpayer-funded ladder tell me what is right or wrong. 

[mikegideon]

This is only true because people listen to the Democrats and Republicans who continually tell them such things as, "This is the most important election of our lifetime," or "If you vote for <the other guys> you're throwing your vote away." The truth is, I couldn't possibly care less what they have to say. I will vote my conscience and sleep well at night, even if that means voting Libertarian. I'll be damned if I'll let a slimy, greasy, bought-and-paid-for politician whose only ambition in life is to climb higher on the taxpayer-funded ladder tell me what is right or wrong. 

 

It's true because it takes a strong brand and LOTS of money to win a national election. It would be a whole different deal if the majority of folks paid as much attention as we do. They don't. And, a growing number is too stupid to make sense of it even if they did pay attention.

 

I don't care if somebody comes up with the greatest cola that ever was. Somebody probably already has. The majority of folks are going to drink Coke or Pepsi, not because they're better, but because they're unbeatable brands with billions of development dollars behind them.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Yep. You can't beat the Republicrat machine. I'm mostly Libertarian myself but I also know, at this poinst and every other point I've seen, that voting is a useless/futile act. I sit and I wait.

[TMF]

I'm surprised that this is still a secret. It shows how effective they have been.

I think it is less about their effectiveness and more about how stupid Americans are. I mean, we've seen more criminal scandals in this administration than any before and Obama would win if elections were held tomorrow. They don't even have to try any more.

[LagerHead]

It's true because it takes a strong brand and LOTS of money to win a national election. It would be a whole different deal if the majority of folks paid as much attention as we do. They don't. And, a growing number is too stupid to make sense of it even if they did pay attention.

 

I don't care if somebody comes up with the greatest cola that ever was. Somebody probably already has. The majority of folks are going to drink Coke or Pepsi, not because they're better, but because they're unbeatable brands with billions of development dollars behind them.

 

 

Translation: Money talks. However, that is only true in politics because we let it. Hell, we encourage it. 

[Bigiron]

The most important person in any election is the person who counts the votes.

[mikegideon]

Translation: Money talks. However, that is only true in politics because we let it. Hell, we encourage it. 

 

It's not "we". We pay attention. We just aren't normal. We have to wait for the "what's in it for me" crowd to figure it out. My money says it will never happen. So, constrained by a bunch of folks that don't pay attention, you get to pick Coke (Repulicans), or Pepsi laced with cat piss (Democrats).

[Raoul]

It's not "we". We pay attention. We just aren't normal. We have to wait for the "what's in it for me" crowd to figure it out. My money says it will never happen. So, constrained by a bunch of folks that don't pay attention, you get to pick Coke (Repulicans), or Pepsi laced with cat piss (Democrats).

 

Understatement of the year so far. :rofl:

[Guest TankerHC]

Several thing's that amuse me, but is not really amusing at all, it just shows the sad state of our Country. 

 

Half of this country are unable to put together more than two coherent, meaningless sentences.

 

A large part of the citizens of this country believe what the Politicians want them to believe, you cant change Government. And then make comments such as "I don't like any of them, so I will sit this one out, no one is going to get my vote". Not even realizing they just helped to change Government.

 

People complaining that there are no alternatives to the people they keep re-electing, then ridicule and complain when an alternative does appear.

 

People complaining about a lack of Patriots, and asking "why doesn't someone step up to the plate", when all they have to do is look in the mirror, and there is a good chance they will find him..or her. Is there anyone here other than me that realizes you do not have to be a lawyer, or even have a High School diploma to run for Congress? Just ask Representative Soloman Ortiz, who doesn't even have a High School diploma, or the other 30 or so House Members and Senators who do not have a College Degree. 

 

The number of people who believe we are stuck between two Parties, so we are, it is self fulfilling. So these people are getting what they want, then they complain about it.

 

The people who have all day long to sit around and watch TV, and all night to watch reality shows, and plenty of time for Facebook and Twitter, but no time to actively participate in the process. These are the same people who say they cannot participate because "some of us have a job". Harry S. Truman had a name for the 80th Congress. That name fits this type of American perfectly.

 

Then there are the Americans who believe that anyone who would change parties should change it on a whim, because in their eyes, anyone who doesn't, is just plain stupid and is too stupid to get it and is the reason why this Country is in a mess. These American's (Those who think the others are stupid) are Patriots, they want smaller government, lower taxes, they want America to be strong again, they want jobs, they want this and that. Then they bash Reagan, not even realizing everything they want, they got, with Reagan and Newt Gingrich (Who held Clinton's feet to the fire and wrote those Bill's that led to 22 years of economic growth), not even realizing that they are Reagan Republicans whether they want to admit it or not. And oh yea, Reagan was a Conservative, and a Democrat for 17 years. 

 

There are plenty of American Patriots today, I see them and speak to them in person or on the phone in several different States daily. I see them right here, whenever I log on, and many other places. I have met at least 30 members of this Forum alone, in all but two meetings we ended up talking for 2-4 hours. just speaking to them, no doubt in my mind, they are Patriots to a man, I ran into another one of these members in Sams Club last week, another three hour conversation. I am sure that we do not agree on everything, but one thing we most certainly agree on, we need to make changes, and we CAN make changes. And all of the naysayers and do nothings are the problem. As far as I am concerned, the way I see it, to say that we are stuck between two parties, that we cant change Government, that no matter what we do it will stay the same, is the same as surrendering.

 

Other people can if they want to, but I'm not surrendering to anyone.

 

This fight isn't over, until its over and we occupy the objective. 

Edited January 13, 2014 by TankerHC

[mikegideon]

Several thing's that amuse me, but is not really amusing at all, it just shows the sad state of our Country. 

 

Half of this country are unable to put together more than two coherent, meaningless sentences.

 

A large part of the citizens of this country believe what the Politicians want them to believe, you cant change Government. And then make comments such as "I don't like any of them, so I will sit this one out, no one is going to get my vote". Not even realizing they just helped to change Government.

 

People complaining that there are no alternatives to the people they keep re-electing, then ridicule and complain when an alternative does appear.

 

People complaining about a lack of Patriots, and asking "why doesn't someone step up to the plate", when all they have to do is look in the mirror, and there is a good chance they will find him..or her. Is there anyone here other than me that realizes you do not have to be a lawyer, or even have a High School diploma to run for Congress? Just ask Representative Soloman Ortiz, who doesn't even have a High School diploma, or the other 30 or so House Members and Senators who do not have a College Degree. 

 

The number of people who believe we are stuck between two Parties, so we are, it is self fulfilling. So these people are getting what they want, then they complain about it.

 

The people who have all day long to sit around and watch TV, and all night to watch reality shows, and plenty of time for Facebook and Twitter, but no time to actively participate in the process. These are the same people who say they cannot participate because "some of us have a job". Harry S. Truman had a name for the 80th Congress. That name fits this type of American perfectly.

 

Then there are the Americans who believe that anyone who would change parties should change it on a whim, because in their eyes, anyone who doesn't, is just plain stupid and is too stupid to get it and is the reason why this Country is in a mess. These American's (Those who think the others are stupid) are Patriots, they want smaller government, lower taxes, they want America to be strong again, they want jobs, they want this and that. Then they bash Reagan, not even realizing everything they want, they got, with Reagan and Newt Gingrich (Who held Clinton's feet to the fire and wrote those Bill's that led to 22 years of economic growth), not even realizing that they are Reagan Republicans whether they want to admit it or not. And oh yea, Reagan was a Conservative, and a Democrat for 17 years. 

 

There are plenty of American Patriots today, I see them and speak to them in person or on the phone in several different States daily. I see them right here, whenever I log on, and many other places. I have met at least 30 members of this Forum alone, in all but two meetings we ended up talking for 2-4 hours. just speaking to them, no doubt in my mind, they are Patriots to a man, I ran into another one of these members in Sams Club last week, another three hour conversation. I am sure that we do not agree on everything, but one thing we most certainly agree on, we need to make changes, and we CAN make changes. And all of the naysayers and do nothings are the problem. As far as I am concerned, the way I see it, to say that we are stuck between two parties, that we cant change Government, that no matter what we do it will stay the same, is the same as surrendering.

 

Other people can if they want to, but I'm not surrendering to anyone.

 

This fight isn't over, until its over and we occupy the objective. 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Positioning-The-Battle-Your-Mind/dp/0071373586

[JayC]

Jerry, welcome to the club...  I ended up joining about 6 years ago...  I've never completely agreed with Ron Paul's thoughts on National Defense...  but listening to him opened up my eyes some...  You're never going to agree with a candidate 100% of the time, IMHO you need to find somebody you agree with most of the time, and hope they'll stay true to their beliefs once in office.

 

The truth is libertarians come in all shapes and sizes, and we don't all agree with each other :)  Some are against strong borders and immigration policy... some of us aren't for it.

 

The national defense issues...  we just have to look for common ground...  My opinion is there is a lot of waste, fraud and abuse in the current DoD budget...  You were in the military I'm sure you saw waste all the time...  There are all sorts of programs the military isn't even asking for that could be cut... How much, I don't know, my guess 30+% of the budget could be cut and not impact our ability to fight...  maybe it's a little less, maybe it's a lot more...  but the military shouldn't be a serving dish for corporate welfare...  it's one of the few things the federal government does that is authorized under the constitution and we should be careful not to waste money on it.

 

We also don't really need 900 military based outside the country....  Doesn't mean we need to close all of them down...  but how many do we really need?  maybe 100?  These act as a de facto foreign aide to countries who can afford their own security...  We're spending US tax dollars to protect Germany, so they don't have to spend their GDP on their own military...  I'm not saying we don't need to do that...  but first off we shouldn't be paying for the privilege...  Germany should be providing the bases for free, and should be shoulder most of the cost.

 

Anyhow welcome to the club..  feel free to PM me if you feel the need...  once your mind starts down this path it can be a little shocking how you're world view on a topic can change suddenly :)  Truth is we're so out numbered on here we should start a support group...  I'm sure 6.8 and Chuck would join as well ;)

Edited January 13, 2014 by JayC

[LagerHead]

It's not "we". We pay attention. We just aren't normal. We have to wait for the "what's in it for me" crowd to figure it out. My money says it will never happen. So, constrained by a bunch of folks that don't pay attention, you get to pick Coke (Repulicans), or Pepsi laced with cat piss (Democrats).

 

So you're not a member of the NRA?  :stir: