New DOJ suggestions for school punishment

[mikegideon]

Once again, that has nothing to do with the schools. It has everything to do with the breeders. If I send my kid to public school and he is the only child out of a class of 30 kids that isn't a future felon of America, that doesn't mean that it's the school's fault that the other 29 kids are hopeless failures, it's the parents. The parents, the parents the parents. Public school or private school, you can't send your kid there with the expectation that they will mold them into educated young adults with an appreciation for learning if the parents don't get involved. I sure as hell don't expect that the school has an influence on my kids' moral compass.

The problem with school is just an example of what's going on with society. Sh###y people are breeding at a higher rate because the government subsidizes it. Their pig spawn turns out to be as bad or worse than the parents. The process repeats exponentially.

 

Yep. The movie Idiocracy is NOT fiction. :)

[JayC]

Robert,

 

My wife and I want to homeschool or go the private school route for our daughter...  and we've been doing a lot of research over the last 6-8 months trying to educate ourselves on the options (we have more than 2 years before we have to make a choice) available to us...  Honestly, I have to pause when contemplating spending nearly 1 million dollars or more on my daughters education (K thru College)...  I'm not sold on the idea that is the best way for our family.

 

So, my wife and I are in agreement that public school is out of the question, and because of all the strings attached, LEA home schooling is also not an option, because the local school system can dictate the curriculum... among other things.

 

That leaves us with homeschooling through a 'church-based' program...  our faith isn't represented by any of the currently approved church based home schooling programs... only Catholics and a hand full of Evangelical sects are represented currently, if you're Jewish, or any other major religion you're out of luck...  Belong to a church that isn't well represented in the South, you're out of luck.

 

And if you're not religious you're completely out of luck, because there is no non-government, non-church related homeschooling program authorized under state law.

 

BTW, the VAST majority of homeschoolers in this state are part of a church related program, and if your religion is represented in the current list of approved programs, I would think it would work very well for you.  But, the government is supposed to be blind when it comes to religion and in this case IMHO the home schooling law isn't.

 

I didn't say they were inexpensive; I said the people can generally afford to pay for what's important to them.  Of course, if we weren't all being robbed to pay for the worthless public school system families would have more disposal income to spend for their own children's education.

 

I simply don't accept your assertion that home schooling isn't an option; it's working and working extremely well for thousands of TN families.  But...I guess if you don't want to home school or can't afford private schools and you want a school devoid of any religious thoughts, moral principles and filled with socialistic, America-hating rhetoric then the public schools are a great place for that! ;)

 

[RobertNashville]

Robert,

 

My wife and I want to homeschool or go the private school route for our daughter...  and we've been doing a lot of research over the last 6-8 months trying to educate ourselves on the options (we have more than 2 years before we have to make a choice) available to us...  Honestly, I have to pause when contemplating spending nearly 1 million dollars or more on my daughters education (K thru College)...  I'm not sold on the idea that is the best way for our family.

 

So, my wife and I are in agreement that public school is out of the question, and because of all the strings attached, LEA home schooling is also not an option, because the local school system can dictate the curriculum... among other things.

 

That leaves us with homeschooling through a 'church-based' program...  our faith isn't represented by any of the currently approved church based home schooling programs... only Catholics and a hand full of Evangelical sects are represented currently, if you're Jewish, or any other major religion you're out of luck...  Belong to a church that isn't well represented in the South, you're out of luck.

 

And if you're not religious you're completely out of luck, because there is no non-government, non-church related homeschooling program authorized under state law.

 

BTW, the VAST majority of homeschoolers in this state are part of a church related program, and if your religion is represented in the current list of approved programs, I would think it would work very well for you.  But, the government is supposed to be blind when it comes to religion and in this case IMHO the home schooling law isn't.

I don't know what tenants of your faith is so specific or unusual that none of the church based systems can work for you...or why you can't still use them but teach to your own specific personal beliefs?? But, that sort of brings me to my next point...

 

As I was reading your post it occurred to me that regardless of whether a curriculum is "dictated" by the local school district or not, I don't believe they can keep you from ALSO teaching the truth and the facts as you know them to be true.  Then, from Tennessee Home Education I found information that seems to suggest doing exactly that and they say that the LEA cannot dictate curriculum

"Registering with the LEA is free. The LEA cannot dictate curriculum, can't require you to have them approve it, doesn't provide curriculum, can't inspect your home or your child's schoolwork, and probably won't give you much help in homeschooling at all. Your child will be required to be tested in 5th, 7th & 9th grades" SOURCE: http://tnhomeed.com/Start.html

 

I'm not saying your understanding of the law is wrong - I truly don't know but at the very least I'd check out this group (if you haven't already) and/or an attorney who is familiar with the laws in TN regarding home schooling.

Edited January 13, 2014 by RobertNashville

[JayC]

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure the information is current...  for example they don't list the new Common Core testing schedule that was added to state law 2 years ago...

 

As for the reason I don't want to subject my child to a faith different from our own?  Would you like to subject your grandkids to an Islamic religious course everyday?  I mean you could still take them to church on Sunday's and teach them what you really believe.  Frankly I find the suggestion that I should just make do with incompatible religious teaching fairly outrageous.  

 

We'll agree to disagree on whether going through the LEA or not poses issues...  Just a quick question did your children use the LEA or a church-based school for their homeschooling?

 

My entire point is that our homeschooling laws should be strengthened to not only allow parents to stay away from the local schools on religious grounds but also on moral and ethical grounds as well.

 

I don't know what tenants of your faith is so specific or unusual that none of the church based systems can work for you...or why you can't still use them but teach to your own specific personal beliefs?? But, that sort of brings me to my next point...

 

As I was reading your post it occurred to me that regardless of whether a curriculum is "dictated" by the local school district or not, I don't believe they can keep you from ALSO teaching the truth and the facts as you know them to be true.  Then, from Tennessee Home Education I found information that seems to suggest doing exactly that and they say that the LEA cannot dictate curriculum

"Registering with the LEA is free. The LEA cannot dictate curriculum, can't require you to have them approve it, doesn't provide curriculum, can't inspect your home or your child's schoolwork, and probably won't give you much help in homeschooling at all. Your child will be required to be tested in 5th, 7th & 9th grades" SOURCE: http://tnhomeed.com/Start.html

 

I'm not saying your understanding of the law is wrong - I truly don't know but at the very least I'd check out this group (if you haven't already) and/or an attorney who is familiar with the laws in TN regarding home schooling.

 

[RobertNashville]

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure the information is current...  for example they don't list the new Common Core testing schedule that was added to state law 2 years ago...

 

As for the reason I don't want to subject my child to a faith different from our own?  Would you like to subject your grandkids to an Islamic religious course everyday?  I mean you could still take them to church on Sunday's and teach them what you really believe.  Frankly I find the suggestion that I should just make do with incompatible religious teaching fairly outrageous.  

 

We'll agree to disagree on whether going through the LEA or not poses issues...  Just a quick question did your children use the LEA or a church-based school for their homeschooling?

 

My entire point is that our homeschooling laws should be strengthened to not only allow parents to stay away from the local schools on religious grounds but also on moral and ethical grounds as well.

I don't know how to answer the religious issue because I don't know what religion you are talking about. I'm not a follower of the straight path so of course I would not follow an Islamic religious course of instruction.  However, I'm having a difficult time imagining that the religious differences you have with any of the common faiths represented in the U.S. is quite that extreme.

As to the LEA question it's moot in my case...as I indicated to DaveTN in an earlier post, homeschooling was not yet in play then in any significant way.

[JayC]

I thought you mentioned that your grandkids had been homeschooled and might know the if they used the LEA or Church based program. Maybe I misread that?

 

As for 'extreme' examples...  Mormons, 7th Day Adventists, Jews, Muslims. Hindus,  Buddhists just to name a few off the top of my head, none of which have church-based homeschooling options...

 

In our case, nothing as crazy as any of that...  We're unitarians who believe in theistic rationalism (yea that is a form of Christianity that has been around since the late 1700's)...  The biggest differences are we don't believe in the trinity (like Mormons), but we also don't believe the entire bible is the word of God, only that parts of the Bible are divinely inspired.

 

Needless to say the vast majority of evangelical churches aren't compatible :) 

 

I don't know how to answer the religious issue because I don't know what religion you are talking about. I'm not a follower of the straight path so of course I would not follow an Islamic religious course of instruction.  However, I'm having a difficult time imagining that the religious differences you have with any of the common faiths represented in the U.S. is quite that extreme.

As to the LEA question it's moot in my case...as I indicated to DaveTN in an earlier post, homeschooling was not yet in play then in any significant way.

 

[RobertNashville]

I thought you mentioned that your grandkids had been homeschooled and might know the if they used the LEA or Church based program. Maybe I misread that?

 

As for 'extreme' examples...  Mormons, 7th Day Adventists, Jews, Muslims. Hindus,  Buddhists just to name a few off the top of my head, none of which have church-based homeschooling options...

 

In our case, nothing as crazy as any of that...  We're unitarians who believe in theistic rationalism (yea that is a form of Christianity that has been around since the late 1700's)...  The biggest differences are we don't believe in the trinity (like Mormons), but we also don't believe the entire bible is the word of God, only that parts of the Bible are divinely inspired.

 

Needless to say the vast majority of evangelical churches aren't compatible :)

I guess I don't understand why it's not possible to use a chrurch-based system but, in addition to what that church believes and teaches, teach your children/child what you personally believe...show where your beliefs diverge from the proscribed material???

Without doing my own in-depth study of a particular church based program I've no way to know how much of a problem this is for folks in your position but it seems to me that it would be a small component in that teaching academic, factual information is neutral as far as religion goes.   :shrug:  

[JayC]

I've yet to find a Church based program that doesn't require you to sign a statement of faith...  Since all the accrediting groups in state law are evangelical based, they all require a statement of faith that God is a trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that the Bible is inspired, infallible, and the supreme and final authority from God.

 

Since we don't believe either of those things, we can't sign a statement of faith, and therefore can't enroll in those programs.

 

It's similar to asking a Jew to sign a document that they believe in the New Testament and the holy trinity.

 

I guess I don't understand why it's not possible to use a chrurch-based system but, in addition to what that church believes and teaches, teach your children/child what you personally believe...show where your beliefs diverge from the proscribed material???

Without doing my own in-depth study of a particular church based program I've no way to know how much of a problem this is for folks in your position but it seems to me that it would be a small component in that teaching academic, factual information is neutral as far as religion goes.   :shrug:  

 

[Guest PapaB]

I almost hate to revert this thread back to the original subject but I will. Actually, I'm happy to. JayC and RobertNashville, I'm hijacking your hijack.

 

No one from the original post has mentioned that the letter from Holder is consistent with the teachings of Black liberation theology. The black man is always a victim and must be treated with an unfair advantage for equalities sake. Fortunately there are a lot of African Americans that don't fall for that load of bull but the AG and POTUS live by the teachings of Black liberation theology. People like them don't seek power to rise above racial inequality, they do it to gain the power to punish whatever groups they feel are the transgressors. They don't see or accept any of the countries racial progress and they don't seek equality, they seek domination and retribution. This is why they don't believe certain groups should be punished for their actions. They perceive those groups to be victims, not aggressors.

[RobertNashville]

I don't disagree with your assessment.  For me, however, the real issue is not this particular policy but the overall impact of having bureaucrats at any level (but especially the federal level) dictating to schools what they must teach, how they must teach it and what their policies must be.

 

If there are going to be public schools they should only exist when parents come together to form a school for their children and other than, perhaps, being required to show progress though occasional testing, should be left alone. That won't ever happen of course.

Edited January 14, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Guest copperhead_1911]

While it is important to not how screwed up parents can be, I will say that the bigger culprit for breeders is the government. This is what happens when you incent people ( welfare, wic, food stamps and so forth) to keep having kids they cant afford. That is the reason we have decent kids in school and way too many of the other kids don't want to learn or are not capable of it. Mentioning this is met with cries of "Racist, or bigot" yet I don't care what color the kids are thugs are thugs and are hurting good kids getting an education.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

I almost hate to revert this thread back to the original subject but I will. Actually, I'm happy to. JayC and RobertNashville, I'm hijacking your hijack.

 

No one from the original post has mentioned that the letter from Holder is consistent with the teachings of Black liberation theology. The black man is always a victim and must be treated with an unfair advantage for equalities sake. Fortunately there are a lot of African Americans that don't fall for that load of bull but the AG and POTUS live by the teachings of Black liberation theology. People like them don't seek power to rise above racial inequality, they do it to gain the power to punish whatever groups they feel are the transgressors. They don't see or accept any of the countries racial progress and they don't seek equality, they seek domination and retribution. This is why they don't believe certain groups should be punished for their actions. They perceive those groups to be victims, not aggressors.

Yep the president and AG are both very racist and most self hating white people who allowed them to remain in power don't get it.

 

There is a movie from the 70s I think that was called They only kill their masters. I think liberal whites need to heed them words.

[Q-tip]

This is just my opinion, but I believe home schooling should be outlawed. Most of those kids will be left behind not only in their education but also in their social skills. When that happens will the parents accept the blame? Of course they won’t, they will blame the schools, the government and anyone they can find to blame.

 

So kids should be forcibly removed from their homes 5 days a week to be taught at a government-run school? That sounds like a wonderful idea. 

[DaveTN]

So kids should be forcibly removed from their homes 5 days a week to be taught at a government-run school? That sounds like a wonderful idea.

Did I say anything about forcibly removing anyone form anywhere? You owe your kids a chance. If you think you can give your children a good education at home and that’s what you want to do; do it. But if you are doing it just because you hate the government or want to whine about the school system; your kids deserve better than to be pawns in that.

[Chucktshoes]

[quote name="DaveTN" post="1096414" timestamp="1389920470"]Did I say anything about forcibly removing anyone form anywhere? You owe your kids a chance. If you think you can give your children a good education at home and that’s what you want to do; do it. But if you are doing it just because you hate the government or want to whine about the school system; your kids deserve better than to be pawns in that.[/quote] My children deserve better than to spend 13 years being indoctrinated in how to always be subservient to authority in an environment that is analogous to prison. To answer the question you asked: Yes, you did. When you seek to declare homeschooling illegal, then those that would violate that law invite government intervention forcing the children to go to a school. Edited January 17, 2014 by Chucktshoes

[sigmtnman]

...

This is just my opinion, but I believe home schooling should be outlawed. Most of those kids will be left behind not only in their education but also in their social skills. When that happens will the parents accept the blame? Of course they won’t, they will blame the schools, the government and anyone they can find to blame.

 

Wow.   I've read enough of your posts to realize you were a big .gov, more law kinda guy but this is a downright scary thing to hear.  I mean; you actually condone taking away a parent's right to choose how to educate their child?

Edited January 17, 2014 by sigmtnman

[JayC]

Dave,

 

There is a lot of evidence that the traditional public school system does more harm to children and provides the wrong type of socialization...  You might want to read up on work done by Raymond and Dorothy Moore back in the 1970's...  They discovered that removing children from their parents and placing them in the a school before the age of 8-12 resulted in increase risk of juvenile delinquency, nearsightedness, increased likelihood of special education classes, and other behavioral problems.

 

Thats not to say some children don't benefit from early schooling, but many middle income or upper middle income children likely suffer by the one size fits all approach to public education.

 

If you look at some of John Holts work in the early 80's...  He said "I want to make it clear that I don't see homeschooling as some kind of answer to badness of schools.  I think that the home is the proper base for the exploration of the world which we call learning or education.  Home would be the best base no matter how good the schools were."

 

While I might be describe (generously some would say) as not the biggest fan of big government...  and I'm obviously concerned with exposing my child to that type of environment 7+ hours a day...  Lets be honest the government does everything poorly, my own public school education was horrible... I wouldn't wish those 13 years on my own worse enemy.

 

Did I say anything about forcibly removing anyone form anywhere? You owe your kids a chance. If you think you can give your children a good education at home and that’s what you want to do; do it. But if you are doing it just because you hate the government or want to whine about the school system; your kids deserve better than to be pawns in that.

 

[RobertNashville]

Forcibly removed???

 

Well, your local school system may not be sending a SWAT team around every morning to collect your children at gunpoint but if you don't send then "voluntarily" (sort of like our "voluntarily federal income tax) I believe criminal charges will soon follow and in fact, you children at that point may well be "forcibly removed" from the home and maybe for good. That sound's pretty "forcible" to me  :shrug: and all because the almighty federal government knows what your children need to learn better than YOU do.

 

And what do we get for all the effort and thousands (total expenditures for public elementary and secondary schools in the United States amounted to $638 billion in 2009-10, or about $12,743 per public school student.*) of dollars per student spent every year???

 

We get High School "graduates" that know nothing of geography, history, literature, art, music, how our government is actually supposed to work, how to do basic math (if they don't have a smart phone handy with a calculator app).

 

We get kids who don't know how to think...who likely have never had an original thought in their head or if they did, had it drummed out of them by a corrupt system that teaches only compliance, political correctness and tolerance (unless of course you happen to be a Christian and/or Caucasian - you can screw with those kids all you want; no worries).

 

You get kids who will likely never pick up a book for the rest of their lives and just read it for the shear enjoyment of it or to actually learn something.

 

You get good little comrades rather than citizens.

 

The children are our future and our future is VERY BLEAK.

 

 

 

* source:

U.S. Department of Education
Institute of Education Sciences
National Center for Education Statistics

Edited January 17, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Q-tip]

Did I say anything about forcibly removing anyone form anywhere? You owe your kids a chance. If you think you can give your children a good education at home and that’s what you want to do; do it. But if you are doing it just because you hate the government or want to whine about the school system; your kids deserve better than to be pawns in that.

It's the only logical solution when you outlaw homeschooling. The law says children have to go to school; it's not optional. We do currently have the option to educate children at home. If that option is removed, as you recommend, then children must attend school away from the home. If homeschooling is outlawed, and parents don't send their kids to a public/private school, Social Services will remove those kids as long as the parents refuse to comply. 

 

My children will get a much better education at home because my wife and I care much more about our kids than any teacher ever could. Simple as that. 

[DaveTN]

My children will get a much better education at home because my wife and I care much more about our kids than any teacher ever could. Simple as that.

Caring about your kids is great; but it isn’t enough. They need a quality education and the chance to gain social skills.

Maybe I’m looking at this a little differently. For years I was being sent to homes on “Family situations” or “neighborhood situations”. I saw too many families where the parents were incapable of raising children; it was common. Ask any cop how many times they went on calls where they saw kids that didn’t have a chance because of the parents. And I’m not talking about poor parents; I’m talking about stupid parents.

I just think the percentage of parents that have the time and ability to teach their children is pretty small.

On a different note I don’t buy into the rants that kids aren’t being taught anything anymore. I have worked with some pretty sharp young people; none were home schooled and none went to private schools.

We see gun owners do stupid stuff and the press says we need to get rid of guns, we see a cop do something bad and all cops are bad, we see a school have a stupid zero tolerance policy and all schools are bad, we see a stupid kid and its “the system failed them”. I say BS to those things. You have a responsibility to your kid to make sure they get an education. For anyone to say that isn’t possible in public schools is preposterous.

[DaveTN]

We get High School "graduates" that know nothing of geography, history, literature, art, music, how our government is actually supposed to work, how to do basic math (if they don't have a smart phone handy with a calculator app).

Nonsense. Do your kids not know history or can’t do math? Did they quit teaching those things in school?

We get kids who don't know how to think...who likely have never had an original thought in their head or if they did, had it drummed out of them by a corrupt system that teaches only compliance, political correctness and tolerance (unless of course you happen to be a Christian and/or Caucasian - you can screw with those kids all you want; no worries).

What are you saying? What would race or religion have to do with screwing with the kids? Who are you blaming now?

[Q-tip]

Caring about your kids is great; but it isn’t enough. They need a quality education and the chance to gain social skills.

 

Are church, sports, jobs, teams , clubs, band, group classes, etc., not enough socialization opportunities? How is socialization gained when students sit with peers their own age every day in a desk listening to a teacher for 7+ hours a day, and then are issued two hours of homework per night? There is absolutely zero emperical evidence that suggests home schooled kids are less socially adept that those who went to pubic/private schools. 

 

With a decent curriculum, teaching high-school level subjects is not difficult. It's more like having a private tutor as a full-time, in-home instructor. 

[RobertNashville]

Are church, sports, jobs, teams , clubs, band, group classes, etc., not enough socialization opportunities? How is socialization gained when students sit with peers their own age every day in a desk listening to a teacher for 7+ hours a day, and then are issued two hours of homework per night? There is absolutely zero emperical evidence that suggests home schooled kids are less socially adept that those who went to pubic/private schools. 

 

With a decent curriculum, teaching high-school level subjects is not difficult. It's more like having a private tutor as a full-time, in-home instructor. 

He isn't interested in evidence; probably because the evidence of the last 40 years proves that children who are home schooled far exceed their public school counterparts both academically and socially. Our public schools are so bad that for those who try college usually have to have remedial classes to teach them what they needed to learn in high school so that they have a chance of actually completing college successfully.

 

Based on his comments it seems he also believes that we must have public schools because of all the parents (actually just sperm and egg donors) who can't raise their children; much less educate them...well...last time I looked, the incompetence of these "parents" does not obligate the rest of us to educate their offspring and shouldn't give the state the right to confiscate our money to pay for it.

 

Moreover, for the more than $12 THOUSAND we pay per student per year to house them we ought to be getting Einsteins and Mozarts out of public schools on a very regular basis rather than "would you like fries with that" workers (who couldn't even do that job without pictures on the cash registers).

Edited January 18, 2014 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

He isn't interested in evidence
 
Based on his comments it seems he also believes

Since you are going to make judgments about what I believe. Let, me do the same. You hate everything government; you would rather believe everything you read on the internet than actually looking at the kids that are coming out of the school system as long as you can make it appear there is some kind of failure and you can blame that failure on the government.

Many families can’t afford to send their children to private schools. Many families can’t homeschool because both parents have to work to maintain the standard of living they want fort their family. Your comments would have those parents believe their children are doomed to a life of being ignorant because they attend public schools. Nothing is father from the truth.

I’m sorry that you find yourself around so many young people that are stupid. I don’t find that to be the case and I’m sure that most people here that are smart enough to look around them don’t either. The doom and gloom that you are spewing is non-sense at face value. Post all the internet links you want but at some point common sense has to kick in.

If I am reading your posts right; you don’t have kids and have no first-hand experience with home schooling (which you so vehemently think is the answer)? If that’s true where does your experience come from? You read internet articles of ridiculous Zero Tolerance policies and you think the kids are doomed to ignorance? Schools make mistakes, people make mistakes, and it’s the job of the parents and groups like the PTA to fix them. But you do not want to work towards that because you are so blinded by your hatred for anything government, and apparently in this this costs associated with education, that you would get on here and try to make parents believe that home school or private schools are the only option they have.

However, those are just my judgments about you from reading your posts. Agree or disagree with me I don’t think many on here that are familiar with my posts would think they need you to interpret them; they are usually pretty clear.

[RobertNashville]

Since you are going to make judgments about what I believe. Let, me do the same.

That’s kind of how these discussions work…one person posts something and everyone else judges what he/she said and what they think about what was said and whether they agree or not and then post their comments about it.

You hate everything government

Wow! I can instantly think of several members here who’s heads will explode if/when they read that statement! LOL

How you could have ever read any of my posts and come up with that statement is a wondrous thing. I don’t, never have and never said I hate government…I do hate it when government does things it has no right to be doing.

You would rather believe everything you read on the internet than actually looking at the kids that are coming out of the school system as long as you can make it appear there is some kind of failure and you can blame that failure on the government.

In the case of public schools the government is responsible for the failure because they are government run and predominantly government controlled institutions.

Whenever possible I use and often even cite credible sources such as, on this subject, the department of education and studies done by universities and research organizations…the fact that this data is available on the internet makes it no less accurate or substantial or credible that if I went to the library and looked up the printed version of the information. Information which, by the way, beats ANY anecdotal information anyone can site about their personal experience with “kids coming out of school”. Personal experience with working “with some pretty sharp young people” who weren’t home schooled is meaningless compared to empirical studies…if you don’t understand that then there is little more anyone can say that will make any difference to you.

Many families can’t afford to send their children to private schools. Many families can’t homeschool because both parents have to work to maintain the standard of living they want fort their family. Your comments would have those parents believe their children are doomed to a life of being ignorant because they attend public schools. Nothing is father from the truth.

And just why does poor or in some cases, selfish decisions by some parents obligate the rest of the country to educate their offspring? Do you believe in personal responsibility or do you believe in utilitarianism? From your comments I’m “judging” that it’s the latter.

I’m sorry that you find yourself around so many young people that are stupid. I don’t find that to be the case and I’m sure that most people here that are smart enough to look around them don’t either. The doom and gloom that you are spewing is non-sense at face value. Post all the internet links you want but at some point common sense has to kick in.

I refer you to what I said above about empirical studies vs. personal experience. Or might I suggest that instead of simply disparaging those “internet links” you provide some competent facts and evidence to support your claim…seems to me that would be the “common sense” thing to do! LOL

If I am reading your posts right; you don’t have kids and have no first-hand experience with home schooling (which you so vehemently think is the answer)? If that’s true where does your experience come from? You read internet articles of ridiculous Zero Tolerance policies and you think the kids are doomed to ignorance? Schools make mistakes, people make mistakes, and it’s the job of the parents and groups like the PTA to fix them. But you do not want to work towards that because you are so blinded by your hatred for anything government, and apparently in this this costs associated with education, that you would get on here and try to make parents believe that home school or private schools are the only option they have.

So NOW it’s the job of the parents…would those be the same parents that just moments ago you said were incapable of educating their children? LOL

There would be no need to “fix” these problems if the country realized that public education is both a failure AND unnecessary. As I’ve said numerous times, if there is going to be “public schools” they should exist only when the parents who want their children in those schools come together, fund them and control them..not force everyone to pay for them while bureaucrats who are hundreds or thousands of miles away dictate how they are to be run and what they can teach.

No one is ever doomed to ignorance unless they chose to be so…one never has to darken the door of a school to become profoundly knowledgeable and educated about the world around him. Sadly, this mindset that we must have public schools is likely at least partially to blame for just how dumb the people of America have become.

It’s obvious that you don’t read my posts correctly (or perhaps not at all) as I’ve previously answered your questions about where my experience comes from. Edited January 19, 2014 by RobertNashville