New DOJ suggestions for school punishment

[RobertNashville]

I've asked it over and over again on this and other forms; why in the world any parent allow his children to be in the public school system today?

Get your children out of the public schools; do what you have to do, sell your house, sell your car Sell some guns whatever it takes - if you love your children get them out of the public schools. It's too late to try and change them (the schools), all you can do now is get your kids away from them.

[RobertNashville]

JayC and Chuckshoes...when you guys start agreeing with me I start to get nervous.  :panic:

[JayC]

Robert,

 

I agree with you but where do you send your kids?  If you're not religious or your church doesn't have/run a school your options are very limited... 

 

While TN has homeschooling laws, it only involves 2 methods....  The first is controlled by the local school district which is as bad as putting your kids in public schools...  

 

The second is to 'register' with a church related school...  You're completely out of luck with this method if you're not an Evangelical or Catholic...  there are no 'certified' schools in the Jewish faith, let alone any other faiths approved by the state.  And no way to use this non-government method of homeschooling if you're not religious.

 

The fact is you're options are very limited to pull your child out of public school altogether...  And this is another area of freedom where we should work to restore more freedoms to parents.

 

I've asked it over and over again on this and other forms; why in the world any parent allow his children to be in the public school system today?

Get your children out of the public schools; do what you have to do, sell your house, sell your car Sell some guns whatever it takes - if you love your children get them out of the public schools. It's too late to try and change them (the schools), all you can do now is get your kids away from them.

Edited January 12, 2014 by JayC

[Chucktshoes]

JayC and Chuckshoes...when you guys start agreeing with me I start to get nervous.  :panic:

I know what you mean, it makes me nervous too. Then I feel the need to start checking myself for parasites like ticks, or politicians. :rofl:

Edited January 12, 2014 by Chucktshoes

[RobertNashville]

Robert,

 

I agree with you but where do you send your kids?  If you're not religious or your church doesn't have/run a school your options are very limited... 

 

While TN has homeschooling laws, it only involves 2 methods....  The first is controlled by the local school district which is as bad as putting your kids in public schools...  

 

The second is to 'register' with a church related school...  You're completely out of luck with this method if you're not an Evangelical or Catholic...  there are no 'certified' schools in the Jewish faith, let alone any other faiths approved by the state.  And no way to use this non-government method of homeschooling if you're not religious.

 

The fact is you're options are very limited to pull your child out of public school altogether...  And this is another area of freedom where we should work to restore more freedoms to parents.

There are plenty of private schools around, including those that hold to no particular religions faith...aside from that, HOME SCHOOLING. And no, just because you have to teach per their instructions is NOT the same as them sitting in their classrooms and inundated with their garbage...you can still teach them the TRUTH as well as the "facts" dictated by the State. Teaching as the State dictates is teaching them to pass tests...real TEACHING is about teaching them how to be functioning, literate, critical thinking adults.

As I said above, parents have to be willing to make the sacrifice...leaving your children to the public school system is tantamount to just turning them over completely to the government. Most of us can afford what me make a priority.

Leave your kids to the public centers of introdoctranation and you get idiocy like this: http://www.mississippigunnews.com/missouri-bill-turns-parents-who-own-guns-into-criminals/

 

Edited January 12, 2014 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

I've asked it over and over again on this and other forms; why in the world any parent allow his children to be in the public school system today?

Get your children out of the public schools; do what you have to do, sell your house, sell your car Sell some guns whatever it takes - if you love your children get them out of the public schools. It's too late to try and change them (the schools), all you can do now is get your kids away from them.

I disagree. You have to communicate with your kids. Whether they go to a public school, or private school they will get information you do not agree with. The thought of some of the people I know that have said they were going to home school is far scarier than the school system; these kids don’t have a chance.

Don’t make you kids pay the price for you being upset with some political belief the school has or how they feel about issues like guns.

I remember when I heard my step son and his friends talking about a traffic stop and one of them said “The Police need a warrant to search your car.” Now… usually I stay out of their discussions, but I felt they deserved to have the proper information so those dumb azz words would not pass their lips on a traffic stop. When I asked who told them that they said one of their teachers and another kid said his Dad told him the same thing. I didn’t tell them both the teacher and the Dad are dumb azzes and should stick to what they know, so we had a discussion about traffic stops. I think they understood better than their teacher, or the uniformed parent.

You know the teachers, no matter whether public or private, put their own spin on history. So you have talks with your kids about what they are learning.

This is just my opinion, but I believe home schooling should be outlawed. Most of those kids will be left behind not only in their education but also in their social skills. When that happens will the parents accept the blame? Of course they won’t, they will blame the schools, the government and anyone they can find to blame.

[RobertNashville]

...This is just my opinion, but I believe home schooling should be outlawed. Most of those kids will be left behind not only in their education but also in their social skills. When that happens will the parents accept the blame? Of course they won’t, they will blame the schools, the government and anyone they can find to blame.

Decades of history suggests you arr incorrect; not only are they not "left behind"; they are ahead of their "public school" counterparts academically (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/30/testing-proves-success-of-grads/ ). Moreover, put two side by side and talk to them for 5 minutes and you'' have no trouble picking out the far better educated and well rounded of the two and it will be the one that was home schooled.

It's "public education" (or at the very least, public education that isn't 100% controlled and funded directly by the parents with children in them) which should be outlawed.

Edited January 12, 2014 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

Decades of history suggests you arr incorrect; not only are they not "left behind"; they are ahead of their "public school" counterparts academically (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/30/testing-proves-success-of-grads/ ). Moreover, put two side by side and talk to them for 5 minutes and you'' have no trouble picking out the far better educated and well rounded of the two and it will be the one that was home schooled.

It's "public education" (or at the very least, public education that isn't 100% controlled and funded directly by the parents with children in them) which should be outlawed.

Did you home school your kids?

[No_0ne]

You care to interject some facts of your own to add to the conversation? Or does it make you feel better to try to be clever?

 

The conversation?  "This crap is starting to get old"?  I suppose it depends on how many DOJ letters one reads to form an opinion about your statement.  I don't read any, generally...

[JayC]

Robert,

 

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anymore than a handful of non-religious private schools in TN, and the few there are are VERY expensive, $16,000+ per child expensive.

 

I can't speak to other parts of the state, but in middle TN there are only 4 K-12 non-sectarian schools, BGA, Benton Hall, Ensworth, and University School of Nashville...  For an family of 4 that is $30k-50k a year in private school costs... I think we can both agree the average TN family would have a very hard time paying for 2 children enrolled in one of those schools.

 

The rest of the certified private schools in Middle TN are all religious, even the "nondenominational" K-12's require daily bible classes, and "service projects", so are not an option of families who aren't religious.

 

Homeschooling through the LEA isn't really an option, because they're now forcing families to teach 'common core'... and the families open themselves up to a lot of dealing with the public schools...  your child will have to sit for standardized tests at the local school.  Not to mention the school gets to dictate what you will teach your child.

 

But, we're in complete agreement putting your child in a public school is about the worse thing you can do to them today...  everyday I'm surrounded by kids who went to public school (and even public colleges) and I just shake my head at how poor of an education they received. 

 

There are plenty of private schools around, including those that hold to no particular religions faith...aside from that, HOME SCHOOLING. And no, just because you have to teach per their instructions is NOT the same as them sitting in their classrooms and inundated with their garbage...you can still teach them the TRUTH as well as the "facts" dictated by the State. Teaching as the State dictates is teaching them to pass tests...real TEACHING is about teaching them how to be functioning, literate, critical thinking adults.

As I said above, parents have to be willing to make the sacrifice...leaving your children to the public school system is tantamount to just turning them over completely to the government. Most of us can afford what me make a priority.

Leave your kids to the public centers of introdoctranation and you get idiocy like this: http://www.mississippigunnews.com/missouri-bill-turns-parents-who-own-guns-into-criminals/

 

[TMF]

Decades of history suggests you arr incorrect; not only are they not "left behind"; they are ahead of their "public school" counterparts academically (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/30/testing-proves-success-of-grads/ ). Moreover, put two side by side and talk to them for 5 minutes and you'' have no trouble picking out the far better educated and well rounded of the two and it will be the one that was home schooled.

The problem with those statistics is that it is used to suggest that homeschooled children are more likely to be better educated without taking into account the circumstances surrounding why they are being homeschooled. It is misleading to use it in such a manner.

Of course homeschooled kids would have a much higher per capita educational success rate from those in public school. That doesn't mean that YOUR kid has less of a chance in public school. What you're ignoring is that homeschooled children have parents that take a very active role in their child's education, whereas if you look at the whole of public school kids there are many parents who could care less and use school as a day care center. Their kids wouldn't have a chance no matter where you put them. It all comes back to the parents. If you send your kid to school and take no role in their education then you will get exactly what you put in. My kids are both in preschool yet I'm doing homework with them every night. My 4 year old can read and write; he didn't learn that from his teacher. My two year old knows her letters, numbers, shapes and colors. That didnt happen in class. It always comes back to the parents. The schools aren't the problem.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

I've asked it over and over again on this and other forms; why in the world any parent allow his children to be in the public school system today?

Get your children out of the public schools; do what you have to do, sell your house, sell your car Sell some guns whatever it takes - if you love your children get them out of the public schools. It's too late to try and change them (the schools), all you can do now is get your kids away from them.

Great point. I think you will see more and more people homeschooling kids. My wife is an educator and as the economy sucks she has not been able to find a job. We have thought about having her do private home schooling/tutoring as I believe the schools are liberal devilment breeding ground cesspools. A kid needs a note to get an asprin yet its ok for a minor to get an abortion some places without her parents knowing? WTF!!!!!!!

[No_0ne]

Great point. I think you will see more and more people homeschooling kids. My wife is an educator and as the economy sucks she has not been able to find a job. We have thought about having her do private home schooling/tutoring as I believe the schools are liberal devilment breeding ground cesspools. A kid needs a note to get an asprin yet its ok for a minor to get an abortion some places without her parents knowing? WTF!!!!!!!

 

I bet if schools ever start giving abortions to kids, they will require a note for that too...

[Guest copperhead_1911]

I bet if schools ever start giving abortions to kids, they will require a note for that too...

The schools don't, but in some states they do arrange for them to get them as planned parenthood.

[RobertNashville]

The problem with those statistics is that it is used to suggest that homeschooled children are more likely to be better educated without taking into account the circumstances surrounding why they are being homeschooled. It is misleading to use it in such a manner.

Of course homeschooled kids would have a much higher per capita educational success rate from those in public school. That doesn't mean that YOUR kid has less of a chance in public school. What you're ignoring is that homeschooled children have parents that take a very active role in their child's education, whereas if you look at the whole of public school kids there are many parents who could care less and use school as a day care center. Their kids wouldn't have a chance no matter where you put them. It all comes back to the parents. If you send your kid to school and take no role in their education then you will get exactly what you put in. My kids are both in preschool yet I'm doing homework with them every night. My 4 year old can read and write; he didn't learn that from his teacher. My two year old knows her letters, numbers, shapes and colors. That didnt happen in class. It always comes back to the parents. The schools aren't the problem.

Exactly, "homeschooled children have parents that take a very active role in their child's education" which is as it should be.

 

The schools are the problem or at the very least, the center of the problem and are beyond salvation given their current state of existence. Not a week goes by that something outlandish doesn't happen in the public school system and I don't just mean NYC or LA or Clevaland ...a child expelled for making his pop tart look like a gun or:

 

"A 16-year-old student called a "good kid" by her principal will be tried as an adult on two felony charges after conducting what her classmates called "a science project gone bad '

 

"6-year old Hunter Yelton kissed classmate and get charged with sexual harassment"

 

"The mother of 8-year-old Jordan Bennett said her son was only playing with his friend at Harmony Community School in St. Cloud.  She fears his one-day suspension, which was handed down Friday [9/27/2013], wrongly labels Jordan as a violent person.  There was nothing in his hand.  He used his thumb and index finger, Bonnie Bennett told a local TV station.  It was a game.  He made no threatening advances or threats to harm anyone.  No words were said.  They took a child that has never been in trouble before and went to the extreme, the mother continued.  A child that has no history of violence is now classified as a violent offender."

 

"The arrests of several students who unwittingly and accidentally violated school weapon policies has some Georgian lawmakers saying "zero tolerance" makes zero sense.  A Cobb County high school senior was charged with the felony of bringing weapons into a school zone after police found fishing knives in a tackle box in his car.  Cody Chitwood, a 17-year-old student at Lassiter High School and avid fisherman, turned himself in and was released on $1,000 bond.

The alleged offense occurred on private property, well away from their school."
 

"Like thousands of others in Hampton Roads, Khalid Caraballo plays with airsoft guns.  Caraballo and his friend Aidan were suspended because they shot two other friends who were with them while playing with the guns as they waited for the school bus.  The two seventh graders say they never went to the bus stop; they fired the airsoft guns while on Caraballo's private property.  Aidan's father, Tim Clark, told WAVY.com what happened next lacks commons sense.  The children were suspended for possession, handling and use of a firearm."

 

The above are just a fraction of available examples; I could fill pages with such. Even worse, the above has nothing to do with the so-called "history" and "science" and social engineering children are being taught today. Certainly; parents who care can have a significant impact and undo some of the damage but not all of it...not nearly all of it.

 

As harsh as it sounds, I rally don't care and can't help kids who have parents who don't care and use school as a day care center.  It's not mine or any other person's responsibility to provide daycare for the children of parents who don't care. That sucks for those children; it really does...but parking them in public schools aren't going to help them because if they learn much of anything it will just be how to be good little slaves with minds that have had every original thought forced out of their brains.

 

The discussion I see centering around public schools is uncannily similar to discussions about Congress - most people like their Congressman but think most of the others should go which is part of the reason why so many incumbents get re-elected...most people think that the kind of idiocy we see in the public schools on an almost weekly basis can't/isn't happening in their school; that's it's just other schools in other states or other counties where children are being indoctrinated into the welfare state-America is bad mindset and where  five year old children are labeled as sex offenders for holding hands with another child. The entire system is corrupt...good teachers, and there are good teachers and administrators, don't have a chance in Hell of changing anything or making a difference against a system that forces them to comply.

 

It's time to get out of the mindset that we need government run public schools...they need to go or at the very least, parents who care need to stop using them so that at least their children have a significant chance of being functioning, moral, literate adults.

[No_0ne]

 

It's time to get out of the mindset that we need government run public schools...they need to go or at the very least, parents who care need to stop using them so that at least their children have a significant chance of being functioning, moral, literate adults.

 

So kids currently in public schools have a less than significant chance of achieving those goals?  By significant, I would guess that you mean in excess of a 50% probability then.  If so, wouldn't a necessary corollary to your argument be that more than half of recent graduates, say over the last 20 years or so, are not "functioning, moral, literate adults"?  Is that what you are saying?  I don't mean to be so obtuse, but after all I am a public school product. :)

[RobertNashville]

So kids currently in public schools have a less than significant chance of achieving those goals?  By significant, I would guess that you mean in excess of a 50% probability then.  If so, wouldn't a necessary corollary to your argument be that more than half of recent graduates, say over the last 20 years or so, are not "functioning, moral, literate adults"?  Is that what you are saying?  I don't mean to be so obtuse, but after all I am a public school product. :)

It's too late tonight for me to start looking up statistics but...

• Given just how I've seen society change in the past 50 or so years
• Our prison population (even taking specific drug related crimes out of the equation)
• The general lack of rational thought/critical thinking or even basic skills of many of the younger people I encounter

I suspect there are plenty of actual statistics that would show that a majority of public school graduates don't even have a basic grasp or appreciation of history, literature, mathematics, science, critical thinking ability or little if any moral compass to guide them. Of course, I've also seen a general "dumbing down" of expectations and standards so depending on what standards are used, perhaps statistics won't support what I have observed personally. :shrug:

Edited January 13, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Guest copperhead_1911]

It's too late tonight for me to start looking up statistics but...

• Given just how I've seen society change in the past 50 or so years
• Our prison population (even taking specific drug related crimes out of the equation)
• The general lack of rational thought/critical thinking or even basic skills of many of the younger people I encounter

I suspect there are plenty of actual statistics that would show that a majority of public school graduates don't even have a basic grasp or appreciation of history, literature, mathematics, science, critical thinking ability or little if any moral compass to guide them. Of course, I've also seen a general "dumbing down" of expectations and standards so depending on what standards are used, perhaps statistics won't support what I have observed personally. :shrug:

Times have changed and not for the better. what also in the last 50 years that on one wants to talk about is we have gotten away from western and Christian values and that combined with political correctness and multiculturalism have started to ruin our country and will be the key cause of death of the once great republic.

Those things led to people being able to vote themselves money and thus ruining the republic

[TMF]

It's too late tonight for me to start looking up statistics but...

• Given just how I've seen society change in the past 50 or so years
• Our prison population (even taking specific drug related crimes out of the equation)
• The general lack of rational thought/critical thinking or even basic skills of many of the younger people I encounter

I suspect there are plenty of actual statistics that would show that a majority of public school graduates don't even have a basic grasp or appreciation of history, literature, mathematics, science, critical thinking ability or little if any moral compass to guide them. Of course, I've also seen a general "dumbing down" of expectations and standards so depending on what standards are used, perhaps statistics won't support what I have observed personally. :shrug:

Once again, that has nothing to do with the schools. It has everything to do with the breeders. If I send my kid to public school and he is the only child out of a class of 30 kids that isn't a future felon of America, that doesn't mean that it's the school's fault that the other 29 kids are hopeless failures, it's the parents. The parents, the parents the parents. Public school or private school, you can't send your kid there with the expectation that they will mold them into educated young adults with an appreciation for learning if the parents don't get involved. I sure as hell don't expect that the school has an influence on my kids' moral compass.

The problem with school is just an example of what's going on with society. Sh###y people are breeding at a higher rate because the government subsidizes it. Their pig spawn turns out to be as bad or worse than the parents. The process repeats exponentially.

[RobertNashville]

If you want to ignore what's going on in the public schools that's fine.

 

However, anyone who can be aware of what is happening in public schools, even here in Tennessee and not recognize the problem is simply choosing not to know. You don't get kids being expelled for playing with airguns ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY or 5 year old children being branded criminal sex offenders unless the is something VERY systemically wrong with the whole rotten system.

[RobertNashville]

Robert,

 

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anymore than a handful of non-religious private schools in TN, and the few there are are VERY expensive, $16,000+ per child expensive.

 

I can't speak to other parts of the state, but in middle TN there are only 4 K-12 non-sectarian schools, BGA, Benton Hall, Ensworth, and University School of Nashville...  For an family of 4 that is $30k-50k a year in private school costs... I think we can both agree the average TN family would have a very hard time paying for 2 children enrolled in one of those schools.

 

The rest of the certified private schools in Middle TN are all religious, even the "nondenominational" K-12's require daily bible classes, and "service projects", so are not an option of families who aren't religious.

 

Homeschooling through the LEA isn't really an option, because they're now forcing families to teach 'common core'... and the families open themselves up to a lot of dealing with the public schools...  your child will have to sit for standardized tests at the local school.  Not to mention the school gets to dictate what you will teach your child.

 

But, we're in complete agreement putting your child in a public school is about the worse thing you can do to them today...  everyday I'm surrounded by kids who went to public school (and even public colleges) and I just shake my head at how poor of an education they received. 

I didn't say they were inexpensive; I said the people can generally afford to pay for what's important to them.  Of course, if we weren't all being robbed to pay for the worthless public school system families would have more disposal income to spend for their own children's education.

 

I simply don't accept your assertion that home schooling isn't an option; it's working and working extremely well for thousands of TN families.  But...I guess if you don't want to home school or can't afford private schools and you want a school devoid of any religious thoughts, moral principles and filled with socialistic, America-hating rhetoric then the public schools are a great place for that! ;)

Edited January 13, 2014 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

Did you home school your kids?

In my child-rearing years, there was no "home school" movement. While the seeds of the modern movement began in the early 60's it wasn't really widespread, especially in my area, until the mid 80's.

 

My involvement with home schooling had been on the periphery...though my family and their young children; through families at church/other friends and their experiences and seeing the product of their efforts as well as seeing the "other side" by interacting daily with the product of our wonderful public school system.

 

For the benefit of everyone else here; I'm not saying that good parenting can't make a real difference in their children's lives. Certainly; it's the parents and not the building/place that is most important.  But I know of no one who can spend nearly as much time counteracting the garbage their children are fed in public schools where they spend hours every day being indoctrinated by a corrupt, politically correct system that is devoid of morals or ethics and filled with teaching that is hostile to the concepts, beliefs, and truths most of use here cling to. Not to mention the music, TV and video games that are competing for parents' time with their children. 

[TMF]

If you want to ignore what's going on in the public schools that's fine.
 
However, anyone who can be aware of what is happening in public schools, even here in Tennessee and not recognize the problem is simply choosing not to know. You don't get kids being expelled for playing with airguns ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY or 5 year old children being branded criminal sex offenders unless the is something VERY systemically wrong with the whole rotten system.

Yes, we can point out sensational, anecdotal evidence of how out of control some school administrators have become. That doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bath water.

[RobertNashville]

Yes, we can point out sensational, anecdotal evidence of how out of control some school administrators have become. That doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bath water.

The "bathwater" is the public school system and it's contaminated beyond cleaning.

 

These anecdotal incidents have gone fare beyond infrequent odd happenings - they are happening everywhere and all the time. This past December a high school senior in Georgia was suspended for a year for...gasp...hugging a teacher...he won't graduate this spring...he won't qualify for the sports scholarship he was going to receive all because he hugged a teacher.  Georgia is trying to pass a law that will require, under penalty of law for non-compliance, parents to inform the school district if there are firearms in the home when then enroll their children or if they buy any firearms after that while the child is in school. Why the hell does ANYBODY need to know if I or anyone else has firearms in my home just because I have children in a public school?  Are they going to start dictating what books I can read next???  Then there is the recent crap (and all the prior crap coming from the Feds) such as what started this thread in the first place!

If that kind of crap can happen in Georgia there is absolutely no reason to think it can't happen in Tennessee or anywhere else and what is being dictated by the government and the teacher's unions and the rest of the cesspool of liberal thought is happening in Tennessee because Tennessee schools can't escape it.

 

Have you looked at what has been and is being taught to students who were/are in the education tract in college today or what is being required by administrations and state and federal governments?  Everyone wants to think that THEIR school system is different but it isn't different...the system is corrupt and beyond repair...it needs to be abolished and the government needs to stop taxing people to support it.  Then, if individual parents want to come together with other parents and have a school where their children attend without Washigton or Nashville telling them what and how they must teach then fine...that's the only kind of public school that should exist.

 

If you or anyone else wants to keep their kids in the public school system ...if they think that's what's best that's fine...it's their choice.

Edited January 13, 2014 by RobertNashville

[TMF]

The "bathwater" IS the public school system and it's contaminated beyond cleaning.
 
These anecdotal incidents have gone fare beyond infrequent odd happenings - they are happening everywhere and all the time. This past December a high school senior was suspended for a yer for...gasp...hugging a teacher meaning he won't gradugate this spring...Georgia is trying to pass a law that will require, under penalty of law for non-compliance, parents to inform the school district if there are firearms in the home when then enroll their children or if they buy any firearms after that while the child is in school. Why the hell does ANYBODY need to know if I or anyone else has firearms in my home just because I have children in a public school?  Are they going to start dictating what books I can read next???
If that kind of crap can happen in Georgia there is absolutely no reason to think it can't happen in Tennessee or anywhere else.

Have you looked at what has been and is being taught to students who in the Education tract in college today or what is being required by administrations and state and federal governments?  Everyone wants to think that THEIR school system is different but it isn't different...the system is corrupt and beyond repair...it needs to be abolished and the government needs to stop taxing people to support it.  Then, if individual parents want to come together with other parents and have a school where their children attend without Washigton or Nashville telling them what and how they must teach then fine...that's the only kind of public school that should exist.

And in all of those cases where the school system stepped over the line it became national news with the schools issuing apologies and normally reversing their decision. Somehow I think there were school administrators doing dumb stuff back before there was 24 hour news and Alex Jones.