damascus steel shotgun?

[Guest jrbaker90]

I know the old damscus shotguns you not supposed to shot with the modern smokeless powder. but what about black powder? I've just been wondering this and thought I'll see what y'all would have to say about it and I'm not going to try doin it at all just wondering if it would work

[peejman]

My Dad has his grandfathers damascus barreled shotgun.  Yes, you could make some very low power hand loaded shells with either black powder or smokeless powder and probably be fine.  I won't do it with that shotgun because its too intrinsically valuable to risk it IMO. 

[Guest jrbaker90]

I could understand that completely but I don't own one and some time I can find one pretty cheap and I just like to have one as a wall hanger and if I did Iwwould make a blank and use it as a noise maker

[Guest jrbaker90]

I could understand that completely but I don't own one and some time I can find one pretty cheap and I just like to have one as a wall hanger and if I did Iwwould make a blank and use it as a noise maker

[Jonnin]

if the  barrel is a wire-twist type, it is generally not safe to shoot without verification of the condition of the metal.  Wire wrap looks similar to damascus -- I had never heard of it until I started researching my own antique.  

[Guest ppardue1]

Let me preface this by saying that all shotguns that have any reason to be suspect should be proofed before shooting.

 

With that out of the way, I own two Damascus shotguns which I regularly shoot with modern loads. I had the barrels x-rayed which showed hoop stresses commiserate with modern guns. I have no doubt that my Damascus guns could shoot any modern load. With that said, I don't shoot high-pressure loads for the reason of preserving the condition of the receivers. I take these guns out clay shooting with target rounds and that is all I will ever use them for. The bottom line, though, is that I have absolutely no fear of a catastrophic failure every time I pull the trigger.

 

If you want to shoot these old guns I encourage you to do so and loading black powder rounds is trivially easy (I did a few just to enjoy the plume of smoke). If you google a "square load" you will find some good resources on loading your own.

 

As a last thought, the weak point in these guns is wear to the receiver. I have seen guns so worn that the lockup was non-existent. Those are the guns I would be hesitant to fire.

 

[peejman]

Let me preface this by saying that all shotguns that have any reason to be suspect should be proofed before shooting.

 

With that out of the way, I own two Damascus shotguns which I regularly shoot with modern loads. I had the barrels x-rayed which showed hoop stresses commiserate with modern guns. ...

 

 

Care to elaborate?  X-rays don't show internal stresses.

 

edit... nevermind, apparently x-ray can be used to determine residual stresses... interesting.  Now I'm curious who did it?

Edited January 10, 2014 by peejman

[Guest ppardue1]

 

edit... nevermind, apparently x-ray can be used to determine residual stresses... interesting.  Now I'm curious who did it?

 

Indeed, they do! My mother is a material scientist specializing in residual stress measurement via x-ray diffraction. I handed her the guns and asked her to measure them.

 

If you or anyone else is interested in having guns x-rayed, I will check with her and give contact information if she says it is ok. I know she has checked guns for some of the local Knoxville gun shops.

 

Edit: I just talked with her. She said that they would be happy to look at other guns. If anyone has an interest in having theirs checked the website is: http://www.tecstress.com/

Edited January 10, 2014 by ppardue1

[peejman]

Cool info, thanks. I didn't immediately think of X-ray diffraction when you mentioned X-rays. Seems like residual stresses would be only one piece of the puzzle for verifying a Damascus barrel was ok for use. I'd want traditional X-rays and penetrant inspection as well.

I'll keep your mom's company in mind. I work on aircraft engine parts and residual stress determination occasionally comes up.

[79troublehead]

If it's a 12, and the lock-ups good, sleeve it to a 20. 

[owejia]

I have a friend that loads and shoots blackpowder shotshell in the damascus shotguns he has. He uses brass hulls and cuts and makes his own wads out of cardboard. Blackpowder is not friendly to plastic hulls. Mag tec makes a brass shell in about all gages.  The mag tec brass uses rifle primers instead of shotgun primers. I hand load and use brass hulls in my old stevens 235 sxs 16 ga. Just like our great grand fathers did back in their day. Nothing quite like the smell and sight of bp. There is a place in Illinois that has a lot of old Belgian sxs damascus guns for sale, can't remember the name of it. They even have some old underlever guns.

Edited January 13, 2014 by owejia

[owejia]

Looked up the place in Illinois, Collectors Firearms  Simpson Ltd. They have a large variety of old sxs guns.

[Caster]

https://www.buffaloarms.com/Black_Powder_Shotgun_Ammo_pr-4273.aspx

 

If the shotgun is in good tight order, buy you some proper blackpowder loads (or roll your own) and shoot the tar out of it.  Clean it like a muzzle loader and enjoy the old gal for what she is.  MANY a meal has been put on the table from a blackpowder loaded 12g shot shell.  

 

Buffalo Arms has them for $25 per box of 25.  Maybe a little pricey but not really in scheme of things.  I mean, ar you really gonna shoot a flat of them at skeet?  No, probably not.  

Edited January 16, 2014 by Caster

[LngRngShtr]

in reference to the above "sleeve it to 20" post

 

would chamber inserts like the briely full length be OK to use I wonder ?

 

Not that I am looking to shoot the Parker that has been in the family for 5 generations but it sure does shoulder up well.