What really happened to the 22's

[Randall53]

There's plenty available online from 50 round boxes to 5000 round cases....if your willing to pay .25 to .40 a round.

[dats82]

I had seen the increased prices like everyone else, but I saw my personal record today. My wife and I walked into a flea market today in Alabama, and there was an ammo case there. Wife says, "hey honey, you need some ammo?" I look up, and there in a 1000 rd box of the Winchester M22. Price tag was $200. I literally laughed out loud and said, "not at that price!"

[Oh Shoot]

Perhaps the most significant change in demand, is that everyone who used to keep 500 rounds around at most now tries to keep at least 5,000 or more.

 

Once burned, twice shy, and all that.

 

- OS

[StPatrick]

Perhaps the most significant change in demand, is that everyone who used to keep 500 rounds around at most now tries to keep at least 5,000 or more.

 

Once burned, twice shy, and all that.

 

- OS

 

Not in centerfire, but I'll admit that the first time I ever bought a case (5k) of .22lr was shortly after Newtown, once it looked like things were about to get weird.  I'm glad I did, too.  I have just as much or more fun shooting a bunch of .22 as I do '06, 5.56, etc.

[Guest Nick@NKG]

I have seen a fair amount of .22lr at the Dick's in Mt.juliet and also Acedemy in Smyrna Saturday mornings.. (usually)

[serbu50]

Franklin still has the 20 person line in the am at Academy. Crazy then they run to the back counter.

[Garufa]

I have heard that people stakeout some Academy locations with binoculars watching the truck being unloaded for any signs of .22 ammo. 

[Dirtshooter]

Hey  dats82, I didn't personally see it, but a good friend did. A gun show in New Orleans early last year .22 bricks $250. A local auction house .22 bricks went for $250 also early last year. Lots of gun shows in Ms and Fl they went for $125 a brick. They can keep them and put them where the sun don't shine!!!

[Ray Z]

I've heard second and third hand that the feds ordered billions of rounds and are storing them in warehouses to keep them out of our hands and cause an artificial shortage that would bring on radical price hikes and therefore make a lot of people loose interest in shooting.

 

Here again this was second and third hand.  I don't put anything past the bleeding heart liberals that we have in power now but I didn't want my galloping paranoia to get the best of me either. 

[serbu50]

I call BS... That's 2-3 hand garb.... It's more available now that 8 months ago... It's the inbred people and corrupt store workers who are reselling it. Hoarders I'm ok with. There's no shortage. Go look on gunbroker... Buy all you want at reseller prices.....

[KKing]

[quote name="Ray Z" post="1099607" timestamp="1390445158"]II didn't want my galloping paranoia to get the best of me either. [/quote] Sorry, but ding ding. 22lr is out there. If you're not seeing it you're either not trying hard enough or not paying enough. Not saying you should pay the high prices or camp out at Wally World, but it's out there for you to do so if you please. It's not easy like it used to be, and quite frankly I don't know when it will ever be again. I don't know when we'll see the day where bricks of 22lr sit on a Walmart shelf for days or weeks at a time like 2007. Back before the Obama and the Newtown Edited January 23, 2014 by KKing

[10ga]

I'm just curious how much .22 ammo is enough? Seriously, how many rounds does it take to where you say, I've got enough, no need to keep buying. I've got maybe 5000 rounds of .22 ammo that I like to shoot.......CCI and Federal Champion. I went out a couple weeks ago and burned through maybe 500 rounds with a buddy that didn't have any. It's probably been 8 months since I played the Walmart game and last Monday night I went up to my local store because I know they get a truck in around 4:00 in the afternoon and the sporting goods guy goes back around 7:00 to get what came in. I got up there around 6:45 expecting a line of guys waiting and there was no one. I asked the guy behind the counter if he had been to the stock room yet to see what had come in and he said no but if I would wait a minute he would go check. He came back about 5 minutes later with a big cart with boxes and said he was sorry but they didn't get any ammo today. I said thanks for checking and asked if people were still hanging out for ammo and he said no one really was hanging out anymore. I asked if he was getting any ammo and he said they got a bunch of 100 round boxes of CCI in on Friday night and it was all gone by Saturday around 11:00. He also said they were just not getting that much 22 ammo. He had plenty of 45, 9mm, 223, and several other calibers but no 22. I can understand not finding it because re-sellers are waiting on it but from what I'm seeing here in my area, they're just not getting it. Will there ever be a day when you can go to the local shop and pick up a brick of 22 again? I really am starting to wonder if that will ever happen again. If you had told me this time last year that 22 ammo would still be this hard to find I would have said no way. I saw an ad on armslist where a guy in Knoxville had 10 boxes of Federal 550 round bulk boxes, no price, make an offer. I would like to have a couple boxes and I have some fellow plinkers that also need some so I sent him a message and said they're $25 a box with taxes at Walmart when they have them and I would buy all 10 boxes at $35 a box. That's a $100 profit for him and I figured that was fair since he was the one who worked the system and got them. Anyways, by his response, you would of thought I had asked to have sex with his old lady......haha. I just said thanks and good luck selling his ammo. If I were betting, I would say he's looking for $50 a box and there's no way I'm paying that. As long as his ad has been on armslist, it looks like no one else is either. That's really the only way to stop this BS, people have to let the re-sellers sit on their ammo and not buy it. Sorry for the long post, guess I'm frustrated like everyone else. 

[crossfire]

I'm just curious how much .22 ammo is enough? Seriously, how many rounds does it take to where you say, I've got enough, no need to keep buying. I've got maybe 5000 rounds of .22 ammo that I like to shoot.......CCI and Federal Champion. I went out a couple weeks ago and burned through maybe 500 rounds with a buddy that didn't have any. It's probably been 8 months since I played the Walmart game and last Monday night I went up to my local store because I know they get a truck in around 4:00 in the afternoon and the sporting goods guy goes back around 7:00 to get what came in. I got up there around 6:45 expecting a line of guys waiting and there was no one. I asked the guy behind the counter if he had been to the stock room yet to see what had come in and he said no but if I would wait a minute he would go check. He came back about 5 minutes later with a big cart with boxes and said he was sorry but they didn't get any ammo today. I said thanks for checking and asked if people were still hanging out for ammo and he said no one really was hanging out anymore. I asked if he was getting any ammo and he said they got a bunch of 100 round boxes of CCI in on Friday night and it was all gone by Saturday around 11:00. He also said they were just not getting that much 22 ammo. He had plenty of 45, 9mm, 223, and several other calibers but no 22. I can understand not finding it because re-sellers are waiting on it but from what I'm seeing here in my area, they're just not getting it. Will there ever be a day when you can go to the local shop and pick up a brick of 22 again? I really am starting to wonder if that will ever happen again. If you had told me this time last year that 22 ammo would still be this hard to find I would have said no way. I saw an ad on armslist where a guy in Knoxville had 10 boxes of Federal 550 round bulk boxes, no price, make an offer. I would like to have a couple boxes and I have some fellow plinkers that also need some so I sent him a message and said they're $25 a box with taxes at Walmart when they have them and I would buy all 10 boxes at $35 a box. That's a $100 profit for him and I figured that was fair since he was the one who worked the system and got them. Anyways, by his response, you would of thought I had asked to have sex with his old lady......haha. I just said thanks and good luck selling his ammo. If I were betting, I would say he's looking for $50 a box and there's no way I'm paying that. As long as his ad has been on armslist, it looks like no one else is either. That's really the only way to stop this BS, people have to let the re-sellers sit on their ammo and not buy it. Sorry for the long post, guess I'm frustrated like everyone else. 

I've seen the same thing with the Walmarts in my area. Plenty of 9mm, 45, 223, 556, But no 22 to speak of. But then again I bought enough over the past year that I haven't had to do the Walmart  Breakfast Club thing for  the past 6 months. As far as how much 22 is enough? Everyone has their on needs. I've heard guys on here say they bought a brick  2 years ago and still have half of it left. If I take my M&P 15-22 out to shot I can go thought a brick in a afternoon by myself. A year ago I would of thought 5k rounds would be enough to keep on hand, but with this 22 shortage going into its second year, that 5K maybe on the low side. If I need to replace ammo I've used, I have no problem playing the Walmart game before I pay $50-$75 a brick to the scalpers or the local mom and pop gun shop who jacked their prices to the same level as the scalpers.  

[Oh Shoot]

I'm just curious how much .22 ammo is enough? Seriously, how many rounds does it take to where you say, I've got enough, no need to keep buying.

 

I like 50K in stash and 5K as shooting stock. (which I no longer have)

 

Besides SHTF issues, and even besides the year long current shortage, ammo has always been one of the better choices for beating USD inflation rate over 5 years or less,  if you decide to sell it off.  And since folks can't reload it, .22 remains at the top of the list for value over time. And especially since interest rates on stashed money have crashed over last decade.

 

Wish I had at least quintupled my stock over the last few years, I'd still have my 55K round comfort zone,  plus lots of extra bucks, even just selling at current Wally pricing, let alone a bit more without getting into the ballpark of "gouger" levels.

 

- OS

Edited January 25, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[KKing]

[quote name="Oh Shoot" post="1101091" timestamp="1390692525"]I like 50K in stash and 5K as shooting stock. (which I no longer have) Besides SHTF issues, and even besides the year long current shortage, ammo has always been one of the better choices for beating USD inflation rate over 5 years or less, if you decide to sell it off. And since folks can't reload it, .22 remains at the top of the list for value over time. And especially since interest rates on stashed money have crashed over last decade. Wish I had at least quintupled my stock over the last few years, I'd still have my 55K round comfort zone, plus lots of extra bucks (without even "gouger" pricing). - OS[/quote] Holy crap my friend, I have ammo envy. I can't say that I have a definite number. I shoot a lot, so if like to have a lot

[Oh Shoot]

Holy crap my friend, I have ammo envy. I can't say that I have a definite number. I shoot a lot, so if like to have a lot

 

Actually, I only got to about 40K total before the panic hit. :)

 

I was probably averaging shooting 1200-1500 per month before the crunch -- between that and "survivalist" prudence, it's really not all that much seems to me.

 

But seriously, since my stashed bux have gone from earning 7% to less than 1% over the last decade, and I just ain't gonna risk the crazy stock market any more, it just made sense to start regularly throwing some into ammo, why not?

 

- OS

Edited January 25, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[10ga]

Well I went out today and shot another 250 rounds and with my stock not being even close to Oh Shoot's stash, I'm headed out the door to Wally World and see what happens tonight. I maybe have 4000 rounds so I'm getting a little nervous.......LOL  I would love to have 50K stock piled, that's awesome. The guy that got his panties in a wad over my offer emailed me back and said he would do me a favor and let me have one box for $60. I'll quit shooting before I pay that

[Oh Shoot]

Well I went out today and shot another 250 rounds and with my stock not being even close to Oh Shoot's stash, ....

 

See my above post. I do believe overall ammo pricing is such right now that the formula for buying most calibers as partial financial investment hedge may well finally have broken.

 

Then again, there are changes that could drastically still affect the market overnight -- like stopping all foreign import of ammo, surplus and/or new for example. Just stopping Russian made would really shake things up.

 

- OS

Edited January 26, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[10ga]

I finally scored some 22 ammo at Wally World tonight. I decided to run up to the Morristown store around 8:00 tonight and I was walking in to the SG department as the manager was walking around the corner with one box of Federal. I said "no chance those are 22's are they?" and he said he had just went back and picked them up and didn't even look. He put them up on the counter and there they were shining in their glory........1 case of Federal 550 round bricks. I got 3 boxes and headed out the door. Now I can get back to shooting and not feel bad......haha. I got 3 boxes for just a little more than my friend on armslist was wanting for 1 box. I thought about sending him an email with a picture just to have a little fun but I don't think he would be as entertained as I would be. It took me about 2 weeks but after a little time and energy, I wound up with 1650 rounds. Now I can wait a few months before I have to start again but I know I can find it if I put the time in. FYI, I was the only one there to get ammo so when I left they had 7 boxes, just wondering if they have any left now.........for some reason I doubt it.

Edited January 27, 2014 by 10ga

[jeff43]

I finally scored some 22 ammo at Wally World tonight. I decided to run up to the Morristown store around 8:00 tonight and I was walking in to the SG department as the manager was walking around the corner with one box of Federal. I said "no chance those are 22's are they?" and he said he had just went back and picked them up and didn't even look. He put them up on the counter and there they were shining in their glory........1 case of Federal 550 round bricks. I got 3 boxes and headed out the door. Now I can get back to shooting and not feel bad......haha. I got 3 boxes for just a little more than my friend on armslist was wanting for 1 box. I thought about sending him an email with a picture just to have a little fun but I don't think he would be as entertained as I would be. It took me about 2 weeks but after a little time and energy, I wound up with 1650 rounds. Now I can wait a few months before I have to start again but I know I can find it if I put the time in. FYI, I was the only one there to get ammo so when I left they had 7 boxes, just wondering if they have any left now.........for some reason I doubt it.

Glad you got some, I hadn't bought any bulk packs or saw any to buy since Jan. 28 2013.

[10ga]

Glad you got some, I hadn't bought any bulk packs or saw any to buy since Jan. 28 2013.

I drove down to Maryville today to test drive an SUV that the wife is wanting to buy and I stopped at 4 other walmarts between Morristown and Maryville and no one had any 22. I saw plenty 40 S&W and .45 but no 22. BTW, this was the first .22 that Morristown had gotten since last Saturday so I just got lucky. 

[wjh2657]

I agree with you completely. When Midway and Brownell's started charging ridicules shipping and handling charges I stopped ordering from them. To date I haven't spent a dime with either one of them. This will hold true with those that want to put their kids through school with the profit of one sale. I have heard comments from dealers that want you to believe it's the American way. Which America were they referring to, The one that Obama and Clinton live in?

 

You need to do some serious reading in political science. This type of endeavor is "Free Market" and is not a Democratic Party item. This is a center post of the Republican Party platform.

I happen to be a free Market Conservative myself. The problem here that it is dysfunctional. The hoarders should be buying from wholesalers and then competing price-wise with WALMART as a fellow retailer. Then we buyers get to pick which one we want to buy from. The way they are doing it defeats the purpose of the Free Market, to allow the buyer to determine the price. This type of operation is the main reason we have never been able to make the "Free Market" work in this country. The seller always determines the price and the buyer is shafted.

[10ga]

Well the only way I was getting any ammo has now been made harder. I was using Walmart's mobile app and in the past 24 hours they have taken all the 22 ammo off their website and app. Thanks walmart

Edited January 30, 2014 by 10ga

[StPatrick]

The problem here that it is dysfunctional. The hoarders should be buying from wholesalers and then competing price-wise with WALMART as a fellow retailer. Then we buyers get to pick which one we want to buy from. The way they are doing it defeats the purpose of the Free Market, to allow the buyer to determine the price. This type of operation is the main reason we have never been able to make the "Free Market" work in this country. The seller always determines the price and the buyer is shafted.

 

The market is still relatively free, and functioning efficiently in the sense that price is the method used to communicate value - so long as there are consumers who are willing to pay what we'd consider an inflated price for rounds, those rounds are worth the price paid.  There are two concrete reasons for the dysfunction you note, and which we all hate, and when I say "reasons", what I really mean are "artificial distortions" above and beyond the normal supply vs. demand relationship that functions so well in markets which are not subject to these artificial distortions.

 

Distortion #1: "Hoarders" are not allowed to purchase product directly from distributors or the manufacturers supplied by them, preventing the hoarders from competing directly with those who have passed through the legal hoops to do so.  This permitting is in effect a guild system, wherein a small group is allowed into a trade or practice and then uses their clout and unifying motive to prevent competition.  As has been said so many times, all guilds / trades / etc. are a conspiracy against the laiety*.  Were you to decide you'd like to sell oil filters, you'd contact distributors and manufacturers, choose whose products you wished to sell based on whatever factors were most important to you, and proceed into business.  No licensing or other factors beyond what is normally required to operate a small business would be necessary.

 

Distortion #2: There is still a legitimate fear that government actions could, in the future, further restrict access to ammunition.  This drives the price of ammunition up today, much like the belief that a company will grow tomorrow increases its share value in the present.

 

*I've seen variations of this quote many, many times, so I have no idea how to cite it.  The basic underlying principle is that once a small group controls a market, they work to maintain and strengthen barriers to entry into that market as a means of maintaining, if not extending, their position.  Usually this is done through licensing and permitting, but can also be accomplished by making the compliance costs so high that startups will never actually start.  A great example is recent FDA regulation of tobacco products.  The big manufacturers were all in favor, while the small were all against, the reason being that a Philip Morris or RJ Reynolds can much more easily handle the additional costs of FDA compliance, while smaller manufacturers, especially those who don't yet exist, cannot.  In exchange for severe marketing restrictions, among other things, the bigs essentially froze the tobacco market as of 2008.  Their market shares will not be threatened by new competitors, allowing them to squeeze as much as they can out of what is recognized as a dwindling industry.  This allows them to maintain the generous dividend returns they've provided to their shareholders for years even as volume declines, which in turn stabilizes share value.

 

In the case of the firearms industry, both sides of the protection coin are in play.  Licensing and permitting are involved, as well as high compliance costs associated with hazardous materials, insurance, OSHA, etc.  In the case of compliance costs, future regulations would also need to be considered, and thus far the EPA has not shown itself to be a friend of lead.  OSHA could certainly follow suit.  It's a rough time to start a business in any field, but in such a restricted field as ammunition manufacturing, sales, and distribution, my point of view is that it looks like a rat's nest.  Good look finding startup and working capital.
 

[serbu50]

[quote name="10ga" post="1103356" timestamp="1391047393"]Well the only way I was getting any ammo has now been made harder. I was using Walmart's mobile app and in the past 24 hours they have taken all the 22 ammo off their website and app. Thanks walmart[/quote] That App was useless anyway. It was so delayed and inaccurate