What really happened to the 22's

[Ray Z]

I'm not buying the hording reason for the 22 shortage. Yea, there are a few low lifes out there that are parked at the wallyworld sports counter at the right time to buy up what they can and sell it for 3-4 times what they bought it for. But I don't think that's the reason for the shortage. I remember seeing a skid of bricks at a store for cheap. I can't believe that manufactures can't produce enough to satisfy our needs.

[Luke E.]

I'm not buying the hording reason for the 22 shortage. Yea, there are a few low lifes out there that are parked at the wallyworld sports counter at the right time to buy up what they can and sell it for 3-4 times what they bought it for. But I don't think that's the reason for the shortage. I remember seeing a skid of bricks at a store for cheap. I can't believe that manufactures can't produce enough to satisfy our needs.

 

 Capitalist (scalpers) aside the next thing I can think of causing the shortage is that before all this craziness started most folks would go buy a bulk pack for plinking and then when they started to run low they would grab another next time they were out and about but no one is doing that by choice now. Those same people rather than having a bulk pack on hand will buy any they see because they aren't sure that they will be able to find it when they do need more. So now the same people that were buying say, one box per month are now buying 2,3,4 or however many they have the chance to. So even if you don't count all the new .22 owners that bought guns due to the Obama & pals reaction to Sandy Hook (LOTS & LOTS), the demand has gone up 300-400% but the manufacturers and still only capable of producing the same or slightly more. Most manufacturers I would assume don't want to put a large amount of their funds into new equipment and facilities to ramp up production for what is likely not a permanent level of demand. I would say that demand will be permanently higher than it was before Sandy Hook because of the great number of new firearms sold and new gun owners BUT,, not it will eventually drop back down to a more permanent level and my guess would be, that's when the manufacturers will start adding capacity to suit.

[Mark@Sea]

Scalpers, I think, in this area at least.  I haven't seen 22 in wal-mart here since last January, but the LGS always has it - at a hefty markup.  You can also get it at any gun show, if you're willing to pay $70 a brick.  Plenty available at that price.

[hipower]

I keep hearing from guys here locally that bricks, bulk paks, and individual boxes are hitting the shelves. I haven't seen any of this.

 

But, I'm not living at WW every morning to find out. I have a little, would like to have more, but have a life to live outside of Walmart.

[robbiev]

Walmart near where I work is getting it, but by the time I can get over there, it's already almost all gone. We get it at the store where I work, and no matter how much we get in (last time, it was 8 or 10 cases) and it was gone in less than 3 hours, and that was with a limit of 4 50 round boxes per person. 

[satalac]

I'm just glad I can get .223 and .308 more reliably (and cheaper) again. If you want to horde .22, go ahead, but I'll always buy from the stores, not some scalper. 

[JAB]

I'm just glad I can get .223 and .308 more reliably (and cheaper) again. If you want to horde .22, go ahead, but I'll always buy from the stores, not some scalper. 

 

I don't buy from scalpers, either, but this whole thing has made me realize just how much I (normally) shoot .22LR.  Partly that is because it was pretty much the least expensive thing to shoot but there are other reasons, as well.  I live rurally and do the majority of my shooting in my back yard or next door in my mom's back yard.  The distances I can really shoot aren't long enough to be 'worth' shooting centerfire rifles very often but shooting .22 rifles is still fun and good practice.  I also really enjoy shooting my .22 handguns both just for enjoyment as well as for extra practice for shooting centerfire handguns.  In addition to more traditional 'bullseye/ring' type paper targets, I like using reactive targets (empty cans, etc.) as well as some non-traditional type paper targets and those are just plain lots of fun with .22s.  For example, at Academy I bought some targets a while back (before the .22 drought) that were intended for playing a version of 'Battleship'.  There are two, different colors of 'ships' and each 'ship' has a certain number of rings on it, depending on the size and type of ship.  Instead of guessing where the ship is and putting pegs on a board the object is to 'sink' the other person's ships by shooting them in those spots.  It is a challenge and my nephew and I had a lot of fun competing against each other.  Now, even though I kinda saw the drought coming and put back enough .22 ammo that I don't feel the need to stop by Walmart every day or pay the outrageous, scalping prices that the profiteers want, I also don't have enough to feel comfortable going through it nearly as quickly as I once did.  Since I really don't much shoot centerfire rifles around there, at all, and don't shoot centerfire handguns there all that often, that means I am shooting far less than I did for the past, several years.

Edited January 8, 2014 by JAB

[serbu50]

I think there are hundreds of thousands of people like my wife and I would LOVE to plink... I would buy a bulk pack a month just to shoot it. I can almost tell you as a matter of fact that people who are at least trying to buy it are the plunkers who are trying to replenish... and mostly the resellers. Those resellers are the reason for the shortage. Somebody broke it down on line and when you distribute the billions of rounds of .22lr a month being made, and ration it out between ALL stores and wholesalers( not just Wally).... that it boils down to just say a hundred thousand rounds per region. It distributes down to nothing by the time it's spread out over this massive country of shooters. Then there are the folks who are game players. You know, the high score keepers. " I have 100,000 rounds of .22lr" type. They are literally addicted to ammo. My best friends son collected hot wheels cars for a while. He wanted a treasure hunt edition car. I scanned Walmarts, nothing. Finally, I found out that the workers would go through the cases and get the TH cars and sell them out the back just like .22. It's a collectors game, a treasure hunt... a metal detector type thing. Some people are addicted to .22lr finds. It's a reward type thing. It's total BS and insane. 

[satalac]

I don't buy from scalpers, either, but this whole thing has made me realize just how much I (normally) shoot .22LR.  Partly that is because it was pretty much the least expensive thing to shoot but there are other reasons, as well.  I live rurally and do the majority of my shooting in my back yard or next door in my mom's back yard.  The distances I can really shoot aren't long enough to be 'worth' shooting centerfire rifles very often but shooting .22 rifles is still fun and good practice.  I also really enjoy shooting my .22 handguns both just for enjoyment as well as for extra practice for shooting centerfire handguns.  In addition to more traditional 'bullseye/ring' type paper targets, I like using reactive targets (empty cans, etc.) as well as some non-traditional type paper targets and those are just plain lots of fun with .22s.  For example, at Academy I bought some targets a while back (before the .22 drought) that were intended for playing a version of 'Battleship'.  There are two, different colors of 'ships' and each 'ship' has a certain number of rings on it, depending on the size and type of ship.  Instead of guessing where the ship is and putting pegs on a board the object is to 'sink' the other person's ships by shooting them in those spots.  It is a challenge and my nephew and I had a lot of fun competing against each other.  Now, even though I kinda saw the drought coming and put back enough .22 ammo that I don't feel the need to stop by Walmart every day or pay the outrageous, scalping prices that the profiteers want, I also don't have enough to feel comfortable going through it nearly as quickly as I once did.  Since I really don't much shoot centerfire rifles around there, at all, and don't shoot centerfire handguns there all that often, that means I am shooting far less than I did for the past, several years.

Oh don't get me wrong, it still sucks. I would much rather buy .22 for plinking and shooting in areas that are a bit more noise conscious. I'm just not going to do any business with scalpers (kudos to you for doing the same) and hopefully everyone else will stop doing business with them as well. The people that are hard up on .22 that are buying from scalpers are just making it worse and worse on themselves. If they'd just stop buying from these price gougers, then I bet we'd start to see these shelves filling up rather quickly. 

[Lowpower]

Why is it called hoarding? For the past 5 years whenever I run across a lb of reloading powder that I use I pick it up. 

Not 2 or 5 or 10 lbs. 1 lb.  I can sit down an load 600 rounds of .45 Schofield in a weekend then will need another 

lb to reload them again once I go out and fire them/ Is that hoarding?

 

I can go through a bulk box of Fed 550 count .22's in 2 days on the weekend. That means whenever I go by Walmart and see 

a couple of boxes of cci 100 pcs ct .22's I'm likely to buy them.

 

Buying and using isn't hoarding.

 

I was born and raised in a time of buying when you could and waiting on things you wanted until you could obtain them.

Today's reality is instant gratification whether you need it or not. 

 

To be honest about this before the shortage it was no big deal to go in and buy a couple of 550 count bulk cases of .22's.

I think they were $16 and change.

 

On TV a couple of months ago there was a show on CCI manufacturing plant. They put out a million or so rounds a day.

Although the actual number escapes me right now it was a lot.  Let's say they run a lot of 100 rd boxes. 10 of those boxes = 1000 rds.

100 of those same boxes = 10k rounds. 1000 boxes = 100k rounds and so on. Back to Walmart.

 

They get a case of 20 boxes and sell 3 boxes max per person. That's 6 people buying 3 boxes each and a 7th buying 2 boxes and they're out for the day. Even with 2 cases that only makes ammo available for 13 people. With all the garbage out there about gun control people are buying up guns of all calibers at record numbers. All these new gun owners are looking for ammo along with all the guys that have had it for years. Since it's a great new hobby for them they want to buy and shoot a lot. Didn't you?

 

Back to Walmart again. I was there one evening when they got a shipment in an brought it out. They had 2 cases of 9mm, 2 cases of .40 and a case of .45 acp. Each case held like 10-20 boxes in them. Do the same math and all the new folks buying new carry pistols who need ammo to go shoot them and qualify for their hand carry permits. They don't reload so it's buy new and shoot em up. The difference with centerfire is the new folks get their permit and stop shooting as much. They only need a box or two around the house. Competition shooters, on the local level, can go through 300-500 rounds easily in a weekend but reload and normally do not buy new ammo off the store shelves.

 

IMHO the shortage is largely due to the larger number of new shooters now needing ammo. Look at the for sale boards. Everyone is selling a gun of some sort. They even toss in a box of ammo from time to time. If you buy/used gun are you only gonna run 1 box of ammo thru it or load up on some ammo so you can go to the range and shoot until you're satisfied that day?

 

I don't the resellers have actually grasped the huge rise of users and have not stocked accordingly. I'd bet WalMart is getting the same supply they've been getting for years. Now add those trying to grab and scalp isn't helping anyone except their greed for money.

 

And I would't buy from them, ever. I would rather mix my own black powder and shoot a smoke pole before I'd buy from them. 

 

Sorry for being so long winded.

 

Lp

 

Edited to add normal hunters don't use much ammo but black rifle guys go through lots of it with some buying new and some reloading.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Lowpower

[bersaguy]

I have what I would say is a good supply of 22lr ammo and I totally refuse to buy from scalpers so I don't plink as much as I use to but I will shoot a little at the range with my pistols about once a month and what I shoot I can normally replace in real stores and not scalpers. I hope the day comes when all the scalpers get stuck sitting on car loads or 22lr's and almost have to give them away to get rid of them and in the end lose all the profits they made gorging people who bought from them............jmho

[Jamie Jackson]

I think Luke and Serbu pretty much nailed it.

 

I was recently reading an article regarding the growth of firearm purchases over the last several years...and it is dramatic. For that I'm glad....more members in our ranks. Buy more members needing ammo too.

 

 

And I don't have any issue with any shooter stocking back any amount of ammo they choose. I know I kick myself in the butt for not putting back 10 or more cases of Blazer 9mm back when Academy sold it at $89.00/1000 as recently as 2006. But I didn't...so my bad.

 

When I find a bargain I'll consider it. But I handload the vast majority of my ammo these days and focus my limited funds towards that particular addiction.

 

 

 

Scalpers...hustlers and carnies ...  and I mean no disrespect to the hustlers and carnies. :cool:

[Luke E.]

I think Luke and Serbu pretty much nailed it.

 

I was recently reading an article regarding the growth of firearm purchases over the last several years...and it is dramatic. For that I'm glad....more members in our ranks. Buy more members needing ammo too.

 

 

And I don't have any issue with any shooter stocking back any amount of ammo they choose. I know I kick myself in the butt for not putting back 10 or more cases of Blazer 9mm back when Academy sold it at $89.00/1000 as recently as 2006. But I didn't...so my bad.

 

When I find a bargain I'll consider it. But I handload the vast majority of my ammo these days and focus my limited funds towards that particular addiction.

 

 

 

Scalpers...hustlers and carnies ...  and I mean no disrespect to the hustlers and carnies. :cool:

 

 

  Exactly! It took me a little while last year to settle in on the fact that it is indeed the growth of the shooting population that is responsible for a large percentage of the shortage and then next biggest cause (like I mentioned above) is US! All of us regular/frequent shooters need to have far more ammo on hand to achieve the same comfort level than we did 1 1/2yrs ago. Those two things could be having about the same effect or even backwards from how I listed but bottom line is, New shooters and seasoned shooters carry the bulk of the shortage "burden" on their shoulders. The thing is (and I don't like seeing the same guys lined up at Wal Mart everyday either) it is human nature to need somebody or something to blame it on, it's somewhat of a coping mechanism and I think this is more where the "scalpers" and even the government fall into the grand scheme.  I do believe the government was intentionally causing supply issues ( :tinfoil: ) when all this started but that has either slowed or they've learned to be a lot more discreet.

 

 With a government that is constantly grasping, ripping and clawing away at our gun rights (and all rights for that matter) I for one see that the benefit of such a HUGE growth to the shooting base and the fact that it makes each of our voices louder outweighs the negatives such as having to search or even cut back the amount of .22lr one shoots. Once the demand levels off to an honest altitude, the ammunition manufacturers will rise to me that demand. How long that will take, who knows, but i'm guessing that they are following everything very closely to try to figure out when the trends mellow out and turn into something that they can count on to provide them a good return on the investment in new equipment. I load pretty much every round I shoot so buying ammo isn't something that I find myself in the habit of doing unless I happen to be somewhere and notice fairly price .22lr so my opinion may not matter a bit to anyone else but I myself was so busy looking for someone or something to blame last year that I overlooked the magnitude of the new and seasoned shooters.

[Jason in TN]

It is just the demand for it that is the problem. The people that buy at inflated prices are the real problem with out them there would be no reason to hang out every day at the Walmart to buy it all up. Edited January 9, 2014 by Jason in TN

[graycrait]

My favorite things next to my wife, the dogs, fishing and playing ball sports is shooting .22LR.   I am truly sad that I can not any longer go into my LGS and buy 7-10 different kinds of .22 ammo in 50 rd boxes and play with them at the range.  I wish a pox on every hoarder and hope every reseller dies of spontaneous combustion.  I hope every AR-style hi cap .22LR firearm disintegrates in the safe.

[StPatrick]

I think a couple other posters have nailed it - yearly gun sales have been increasing steadily and at rates never seen before as Americans in general are becoming even more gun-friendly.  To cope with that trend, up to this point ammo manufacturers have added shifts, and in the case of Hornady, cut down of low-demand calibers to limit line changeovers.  This has surely helped some, but demand is still above what the mfgs. can supply without adding more capacity, and that takes time, money, and a fair amount of certainty that the millions they plow into new lines will pay off 5 and 10 years down the road.  Remington is already bringing a new plant on line in Arkansas later this year, and I think it's likely that the smaller manufacturers are already researching the feasability of doing the same (and *everybody* is smaller than big green).  The trouble for them is they can't make their plans based on current prices - they have to do their level best to predict where prices bottom out once the supply / demand relationship is balanced, and I doubt they have good data on current domestic production to work with, much less what foreign companies such as PMC, Aguila, S&B, Barnaul, Tula, Wolf, etc. are up to.  This is in addition to the potential losses to be incurred if the EPA goes hog-wild and does something like banning lead ammo, or worse yet, lead in primers.  The manufacturers have seen that the fedgov is already moving towards lead-free ammo, so that risk is there as well and requires no legislation.

[Fourtyfive]

It sucks , I have not seen a box of .22 LR in a store in a year. I finally broke down after getting my silencer and ordered a brick of Gemtech Subsonic for $70 , I hope it last me the rest of my life ......

[serbu50]

It sucks , I have not seen a box of .22 LR in a store in a year. I finally broke down after getting my silencer and ordered a brick of Gemtech Subsonic for $70 , I hope it last me the rest of my life ......

Just so you know to try it... regular cleaner burning plain jane .22LR from CCI is subsonic in my longer barrel suppressed .22 rifles. Don't be fooled with the $9 a round gemtech stuff going forward...

[Fourtyfive]

Just so you know to try it... regular cleaner burning plain jane .22LR from CCI is subsonic in my longer barrel suppressed .22 rifles. Don't be fooled with the $9 a round gemtech stuff going forward...

 

Yeah I read that somewhere , I also read that the Gemtech is made by CCI. It was still the best deal I could find on some sub in any make and I did not want anything under 1,000 FPS.

[Jonnin]

The 22 issue has really shown the true colors of many of the gun show vendors and others.  I have used the opportunity to memorize some faces, names, and businesses that will never see another cent of my money.   Folks that before, I might have bought a gun from, or gear, or other items, as soon as I see that $75 box of 22LR I walk away.    I have skipped the last 3 shows entirely, have about decided that apart from just a small # of honest guys the gun industry is full of dishonorable and dishonest folks.   Not that I did not know it before, but I did not realize just how bad it was --- i used to think the little, local folks were just unable to get the better wholesale prices and had to run a little higher, and I felt compelled to buy a few things from them here & there to ensure that local shops stay open.  Not anymore.  The heck with those people, they can all go out of business as far as I am concerned.

[Ray Z]

The 22 issue has really shown the true colors of many of the gun show vendors and others.  I have used the opportunity to memorize some faces, names, and businesses that will never see another cent of my money.   Folks that before, I might have bought a gun from, or gear, or other items, as soon as I see that $75 box of 22LR I walk away.    I have skipped the last 3 shows entirely, have about decided that apart from just a small # of honest guys the gun industry is full of dishonorable and dishonest folks.   Not that I did not know it before, but I did not realize just how bad it was --- i used to think the little, local folks were just unable to get the better wholesale prices and had to run a little higher, and I felt compelled to buy a few things from them here & there to ensure that local shops stay open.  Not anymore.  The heck with those people, they can all go out of business as far as I am concerned.

I agree with you completely. When Midway and Brownell's started charging ridicules shipping and handling charges I stopped ordering from them. To date I haven't spent a dime with either one of them. This will hold true with those that want to put their kids through school with the profit of one sale. I have heard comments from dealers that want you to believe it's the American way. Which America were they referring to, The one that Obama and Clinton live in?

[Guest carter]

I haven't been to a local gun shop in ages... It's like when the SHTF they jump on the band wagon and charge out the wazoo... I remember these local people charging cray cray prices and haven't been back since... I do most my shopping online now days...no taxes and shipping is reasonable and sometimes free... ya can't beat that! we are in the information age and these local places have to compete with it...some do and some are wayyyyy over... I do see some alright deals on 22lr sometimes but i pass it buy cause i have an alright supply

[Luke E.]

I agree with you completely. When Midway and Brownell's started charging ridicules shipping and handling charges I stopped ordering from them. To date I haven't spent a dime with either one of them. This will hold true with those that want to put their kids through school with the profit of one sale. I have heard comments from dealers that want you to believe it's the American way. Which America were they referring to, The one that Obama and Clinton live in?

 

 I'm not making excuses for them because it irritated the crap out of me to want to order a $15 product from them and have the shipping be $13 or something like that but I don't think they did it out of greed. I think the more likely reason is that because of the super high order volume, they decided to offer one option that would take care of anything ordered just to eliminate one more point of confusion. If that is the case I think they should have come out and said so to keep folks from assuming that that was their way of secretly gouging them. I may be completely wrong but Midway has always seemed to be a fair. customer service oriented company so I have given them the benefit of the doubt. I did quit ordering odds and ends from them because it was stupid to spend as much money to ship the item as the purchase price was but I did order from them if the list was long enough and the money made sense. I am happy to say that now that things have slowed down some Midway is once again offering multiple shipping options and my last order cost me $4.27 to ship. 

[kieefer]

I think a couple other posters have nailed it - yearly gun sales have been increasing steadily and at rates never seen before as Americans in general are becoming even more gun-friendly.  To cope with that trend, up to this point ammo manufacturers have added shifts, and in the case of Hornady, cut down of low-demand calibers to limit line changeovers.  This has surely helped some, but demand is still above what the mfgs. can supply without adding more capacity, and that takes time, money, and a fair amount of certainty that the millions they plow into new lines will pay off 5 and 10 years down the road.  Remington is already bringing a new plant on line in Arkansas later this year, and I think it's likely that the smaller manufacturers are already researching the feasability of doing the same (and *everybody* is smaller than big green).  The trouble for them is they can't make their plans based on current prices - they have to do their level best to predict where prices bottom out once the supply / demand relationship is balanced, and I doubt they have good data on current domestic production to work with, much less what foreign companies such as PMC, Aguila, S&B, Barnaul, Tula, Wolf, etc. are up to.  This is in addition to the potential losses to be incurred if the EPA goes hog-wild and does something like banning lead ammo, or worse yet, lead in primers.  The manufacturers have seen that the fedgov is already moving towards lead-free ammo, so that risk is there as well and requires no legislation.

That pretty much sums up what was in a recent American Rifleman/NRA magazine article.

 

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/why-weve-had-ammunition-shortage

[Mark@Sea]

The last time it was an issue, Congress specifically exempted lead ammo from the EPA's regulatory authority.