Gun Store Owner Charged for Carrying AR-15 at Texas Mall Before Heading to His Business

[Jonnin]

It's another one of those cases where the "man" can't lose. Even if this guy get's off completely, he probably won't carry a slung AR through the mall again.

 

That was my point --- if you want legal activity to stop, a few arrests will get the message across PDQ.

[mikegideon]

That was my point --- if you want legal activity to stop, a few arrests will get the message across PDQ.

 

It's better than changing the law just to eliminate douchebaggery

[WME]

isn't this what violin cases are for?

[dawgdoc]

Anyone think that if the guy had actually been disturbing the public by running around, waving his arms, and hooting loudly (but with no guns), the most that the police would have done would be to ask him to stop, or at worst, eject him from the mall?

 

Instead, because he has a gun, and a few people noticed it and said the right words, they charge him with a crime?  What should have happened is this:  sheepish people call to report a man with a evil gun; cops respond; cops question him and realize he is not on the verge of a mall rampage (as evidenced by the fact that he responds to their questions and does not try to kill them); cops tell him he is free to go, but possibly give non-binding legal advice that the man's actions could be considered alarming.

 

Our whole justice system is based on innocent until proven guilty; that concept has been corrupted in modern times.  It should be that the LEOs use actual investigative skills to determine if a crime defined by a specific code has been committed.  Only then should the person be arrested.  Instead, many LEOs seem to adopt the mindset that if someone called the police, then someone else must be guilty, and the encounter must end in an arrest.  A simple conversation and review of the relevant code (that we have all seen) should have told them that no crime was committed.

 

 

Instead, "to be safe," they get a warrant to arrest him and let the courts sort it out.  By the time it gets to the court, you have already lost, even if you are found not guilty.  The authorities should be making much greater effort to only arrest the truly guilty (even at the expense at letting some people go), rather than arrest any innocent person.  

 

I would probably not carry an rifle into a mall just because I don't wont to be hassled.  However, my decision is solely for me.  Some nervous nellies calling the cops because they see a man carrying a slung rifle is as bad as someone calling the police because they see 4 black guys that they are afraid may start a Knockout Game.  In both cases, the fear is unfounded without further information. 

 

If we feel that we must hide our guns to protect the delicate sensibilities of the uninformed, where does that slippery slope end?  So many states require guns to be hidden, as if they were a dirty thing.  Once you start requiring those dirty things to be hidden, then you start punishing even accidental exposure.  Even in Florida, which has a law protecting against accidental exposure, I have no doubt that there are those in power who would punish you (formally or informally) for revealing your weapon; perhaps they will use "disturbing the peace" as the charge.  Eventually, society slides down to a point that even owning a gun is a sign of mental illness.

 

I can honestly say that if I saw a man carrying an AR-15 slung on his back with his arms full of other objects, I would watch him as something interesting and unusual, but I doubt I would be on high alert if there are absolutely no other signs that he is a potential mass murderer.  Granted, I have never been in a mall mass shooting, but I suspect the demeanor of those perpetrators were a lot different than this man in Texas.

Edited January 9, 2014 by dawgdoc

[RobertNashville]

I'm neither "sheepish" nor a "nervous Nellie" but in this day and age if I see a stranger walking through a shopping mall with what appears to be a loaded AR15 slung across his back I'm going to call 9-1-1 (while I have my hand on my holstered pistol looking for cover) because given what has been happening in the world I'm NOT going to just assume that the stranger is harmless.  I'll let the LEOs come and they can sort it out and either arrest him or let him go on his way.

 

If some folks here don't like that reaction so be it; I'd rather be safe than dead.

[c.a.willard]

Slung on your back with your hands full is ready to go? That is way less ready to go than a holstered hand gun. Actually I think I could pull one out of a case as quick or quicker than I could get it off my back.

 

I'm not going to argue weather the guys actions were right or wrong, that will be beat to death enough and eventually the courts will decide.  But, a loaded rifle slung on your back is just as accessible as a loaded hand gun in a holster, hands full or not (it takes milliseconds to drop whats in your hands).

 

try it some time.  Im right handed so reverse directions for lefties.  Take a two point sling attach it to your rifle.  Sling the rifle over your back with the mussel pointing down and right.  The sling should be on your left shoulder.   With your right hand reach back and grab the rifle around the hand guard, pull the rifle to the front, the sling will slide across your body transfer hand guard into left hand grab pistol grip with right hand. The rear portion of the sling will end up running under your right arm pit.  with a little practice the process is very quick.   You may have to play around with sling length to get it to work well.

[DaveS]

I'm neither "sheepish" nor a "nervous Nellie" but in this day and age if I see a stranger walking through a shopping mall with what appears to be a loaded AR15 slung across his back I'm going to call 9-1-1 (while I have my hand on my holstered pistol looking for cover) because given what has been happening in the world I'm NOT going to just assume that the stranger is harmless.  I'll let the LEOs come and they can sort it out and either arrest him or let him go on his way.

 

If some folks here don't like that reaction so be it; I'd rather be safe than dead.

Well said Robert!

 

Dave

[Dustbuster]

Being charged with disturbing the peace was almost in line with what actually happened. The guy caused a disturbance to effect more than one person in a public place. Not to mention after that first call came in how many pieces of equipment with first responders and aircraft were dispatched.....that's the quiet part. Beaumont is not a peaceful city and has had more go on than I care to share. Guy could have walked in through a service door or as mentioned used a case or carton or even broken it down for transport. The fact that he went Into a game stop on his way in wasn't too smart. I hate to admit it but folks today need to be aware of individuals bringing big guns into a mall or shopping area. If this guy was in Israel or some other area he would have had his butt kicked for being the trigger of a false alarm....none of us have seen the official report on this, just the news pop...my vote goes for stupid versus rights issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 of course it ate my spelling.

[Dustbuster]

. Edited January 10, 2014 by Dustbuster

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

If this guy was in Israel or some other area he would have had his butt kicked for being the trigger of a false alarm....

 

 

Israel? Really? The country that requires military service an requires guns to never be out of your sight so guns are carried everywhere? They are going to cry over a gun in a mall?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tnguy]

Barrel down, notice. Ready to go.

[DaveS]

Israel? Really? The country that requires military service an requires guns to never be out of your sight so guns are carried everywhere? They are going to cry over a gun in a mall?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now look at why they are carrying. Every person in Israel is a member of the military whether in uniform or not. They go armed 24/7 to be able to respond to terrorist threats and/or invasion by another country. I really don't think using the Israelis is a good example of carrying in a mall.

 

Dave

[RobertNashville]

Don't really disagree with the above but I don't see how what they do in Israel has anything to do with this story in particular nor with the whole concept of carrying what appears to be a loaded AR15 in in a shopping mall in the U.S. 

 

Frankly, I hope we never reach the point where our lives are in such constant danger that we NEED to do what they do in Israel...more than that, I would much prefer we lived in a world and in a country where we NEVER needed to be armed.

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

I didn't use it as a example, I questioned it... But your description of why they do what they do is pretty close to how I would describe the reason we have the second amendment...

[mikegideon]

It's interesting that their civilian gun ownership laws are probably worse than DC.  

 

  http://www.thebangswitch.com/visiting-an-israeli-gun-shop/

Edited January 10, 2014 by mikegideon

[RobertNashville]

I didn't use it as a example, I questioned it... But your description of why they do what they do is pretty close to how I would describe the reason we have the second amendment...

Yeah...that still doesn't mean we should be carrying a loaded AR through a shopping center.

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

:bs:    http://www.thebangswitch.com/visiting-an-israeli-gun-shop/

What part of my statement is BS?

[RobertNashville]

What part of my statement is BS?

Where exactly did Mike or anyone call your statement "BS"?  :shrug:

[Erik88]

Where exactly did Mike or anyone call your statement "BS"?  :shrug:

 

Check your eyes Robert. He's waving the BS Flag.

[RobertNashville]

    http://www.thebangswitch.com/visiting-an-israeli-gun-shop/

Thanks for posting that, Mike...I have several Isralie friends and they've never mentioned that they carry such as depicted in these pictures so that above story makes a lot of sense.

 

I haven't been inside of Israel but I've been to Lebanon and Syria and most of those carrying there were Hezbollah!  :)

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

Mike quoted my post put the BS smiley under it an that link. After I asked what was BS he went back an edited an deleted the bs smiley an the quote of my post.

[RobertNashville]

Check your eyes Robert. He's waving the BS Flag.

Well, I didn't even notice the emoticon!

 

In any case, the pictures posted do appear to not actually depict what some allege they do so they sort of are BS in that regard aren't they???  :hiding:

Edited January 10, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

That is a normal site in that country but yes they are military.

[mikegideon]

What part of my statement is BS?

 

None of it. I misread. There are misconceptions about civilian carry in Israel, but the military is as you say. 

[mikegideon]

Mike quoted my post put the BS smiley under it an that link. After I asked what was BS he went back an edited an deleted the bs smiley an the quote of my post.

 

I didn't edit because you asked. I'm capable of policing my own fuckups :)