What to do with all those lowers...

[strickj]

There seems to be allot of folks buying up AR lowers as of late.

I understand that because of the election coming and all that.

However I just can not grasp people only buying the lowers.What makes people so sure that if the ban comes forth again that other components wont be banned for sale.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

There seems to be allot of folks buying up AR lowers as of late.

I understand that because of the election coming and all that.

However I just can not grasp people only buying the lowers.What makes people so sure that if the ban comes forth again that other components wont be banned for sale.

Ever seen a serial number on a LPK? Me either. The receivers would go first simply because they're already outfitted for registration and confiscation. Besides, we're buying LPK's, mags, and ammo, too.

[TripleDigitRide]

You mean people are buying up all the lowers, just like they're buying up all the gas?

Silly wabbits!

[strickj]

Ever seen a serial number on a LPK? Me either. The receivers would go first simply because they're already outfitted for registration and confiscation. Besides, we're buying LPK's, mags, and ammo, too.

What would make a lower ready for confiscation? There is no registry on them.

If they decided to confiscate weapons then they would be doing door to door searches,not looking in imaginary databases for everything you own

You mean people are buying up all the lowers, just like they're buying up all the gas?

Silly wabbits!

Well at least the prices haven't went up on them too,lol

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

You mean people are buying up all the lowers, just like they're buying up all the gas?

Silly wabbits!

Curiously, lowers aren't rising in price.

What would make a lower ready for confiscation? There is no registry on them.

If they decided to confiscate weapons then they would be doing door to door searches,not looking in imaginary databases for everything you own

Well at least the prices haven't went up on them too,lol

Ever seen a "bound book"? With the right people (and not many of them, either), they can find out whatever they want.

[strickj]

Ever seen a "bound book"? With the right people (and not many of them, either), they can find out whatever they want.

That is not a register.If they came knocking then "I sold it officer".

That proves nothing!

Not only that,but what about all these "unregistered" lowers! If they were able to look in this "registry" and come up with all these names on a whim,then what would keep Jack Johnson from giving them your info on that lower you bought from him under the table?

Also what about all the records of you having ammo shipped to your house.The paper trail is there.Resistance is futile if it came to that

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

That is not a register.If they came knocking then "I sold it officer".

That proves nothing!

Not only that,but what about all these "unregistered" lowers! If they were able to look in this "registry" and come up with all these names on a whim,then what would keep Jack Johnson from giving them your info on that lower you bought from him under the table?

Also what about all the records of you having ammo shipped to your house.The paper trail is there.Resistance is futile is it came to that

You have ammo shipped to your house? Hmh. Maybe it's time to re-think your habits. And, depending on the supplier, there may not be much of a record anyway.

I would be willing to bet that it would be a pretty cut-and-dried hearing for a judge to decide that enough probable cause existed to issue a warrant to search your home based on a FFL's bound book. Especially if the warrant is Federal. Tennessee still uses a higher standard for PC, but the Feds........well, they could have their grandma's chihuahua do treat tricks for testimony and, based on their standards, they'll get their warrant.

As to private sales.........that depends on the person from whom you purchase. I don't sell guns. I have the first TargetMaster I bought from a neighbor in 1979. It's my sincere hope that the people from whom I buy guns just don't remember who I am when the time comes. It's certainly better than having a black and white register of the transaction.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I'm no expert on the subject, and then there's the additional problem of us discussing the mechanics of legislation that doesn't exist yet. However, it would seem to me that an immediate effect of any AWB legislation would be to restrict sales of upper components. At best, things go like the last AWB, and the supply of upper components dries up and jacks prices up overnight. At worst, the sales of any and all upper components are immediately restricted to LEO/gov't only, leading us citizens to resort to the black market if we want them.

In either case, the difficulty in completing those lowers you've got stashed goes up. Best case, it's expensive to finish those rifles; worst case, it becomes illegal and extremely expensive to complete them.

Basically, I'd say that counting on being able to purchase any portion of, say, an AR after a ban takes effect is bad planning. If you're the tinfoil type, you'd be better off trying to build as many rifles as you can RIGHT NOW rather than collecting a closetful of lowers, which are useful only as blunt force weapons without the rest of the components.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

,,,,,,,,you'd be better off trying to build as many rifles as you can RIGHT NOW rather than collecting a closetful of lowers, which are useful only as blunt force weapons without the rest of the components.

Yeap.

I think whatever happens, all parts are going to become more expensive.

[G27]

you'd be better off trying to build as many rifles as you can RIGHT NOW rather than collecting a closetful of lowers, which are useful only as blunt force weapons without the rest of the components.

I don't know AH, but I have zero reason to believe he's not buying lots of uppers as well.

WRT a potential future AWB, just as uppers might be banned, we can't take for granted that previously allowed firearms will be 'grandfathered' in - your 15 year old AR may be deemed as illegal as a brand new one.

I'm not suggesting anyone should be a one-issue voter, but if Obama/Biden wins, we could be in for a rough future...

[TGO David]

This **** really cracks me up every time the subject comes around.

I don't see much chance of the government actually instituting a reclamation policy (or confiscation for you Reynolds Wrap wearers) in this country. The idea that they would go door to door and confiscate each and every firearm is about as absurd as the idea that tomorrow they might search out everyone who has bought a Zippo and pack of rolling papers in the past 30 days and search their home for marijuana.

And for the sake of argument, let's assume that they do issue a complete ban on private ownership of certain (or all) firearms. The likely scenario is that you would have a certain number of days to comply and forfeit the contraband items, after which time you could be charged with felony possession of restricted firearms if found to have them. That means you might skate by with them hidden in your house or buried in PVC pipe in your back yard but those firearms would never be able to see the light of day ever again.

So now you have a bunch of AR lowers that you can't use, that you can't sell and that are only worth money on the black market ... which makes you guilty of felonious trafficking.

Good job!

If that scenario scares you, maybe you guys should consider voting for the candidates at local, State and Federal levels that aren't huge anti-gun bigots. People like Osama bin Obama should be kept out of power at all cost. Even if that means abandoning your wishful 3rd party dreaming and selling your soul to the GOP ticket.

This post was brought to you by Conspiracy Cat. Remember, he's not a fringe lunatic, you're just too mainstream!

[BimmerFreak]

I have to believe that if the Feds go to such lengths (obtain State/Fed Search Warrants which allow them to copy or seize my bound books, then use said books to start a house to house round up) then we have much bigger issues to deal with.

If it comes down to black SUVs in your driveway, and agents at your doorstep demanding the firearm recorded on page 9, line 14 of my book, dont think for a second all of those "off book" lowers are safe.

If you have been in my shop, you will know that we dont subscribe to the hype/fear that a coming/future AWB will be like the last one.

There is no way to hedge against a future ban, because it wont be like the last one.

My crystal ball tells me that Washington learned their lesson with the last AWB. They wont do that again. Its a losing battle to try and outlaw guns.

Political suicide.

What they WILL do is tax ammo, and firearms to death.

200.00 NFA tax stamp? That could become 2000.00 or 20000.00 overnight, effectively grinding all acquisition and transfers to a halt.

11% FET? That could become 110% overnight. Forcing firearms manufactures out of business, or into massive pricing increases, thus reducing the number of firearms manufactured and sold.

.10 Ammo tax? How about a 100.00 Federal tax?

Perfect way to slow/curb purchase of ammo.

and perhaps the MOACFS? (Mother Of All Federal Cheeky Shenanigans) will be a Federal Firearms Registry.

It would be very easy for politicians to convince the general public that a Registry is the way to go.

"we dont want to take your guns. We just want all legal guns registered. It will help get illegal guns off the streets"

This sounds good in theory, and many would be suckered into doing this.

So, a Federal Registry gets approved. How easy would it be to go back and impose a 500.00 per gun tax/registration fee/permit fee for each gun registered?

You then have to pay money to keep your gun (many wont), risk jail time if caught with an "off list" firearm (some will) or turn in firearms to the collection centers to avoid additional fees or taxes (many will)

The next attack on firearms will not be an assault on or round up of guns.

It will be where it hurts us most; our pocket books.

[TGO David]

The next attack on firearms will not be an assault on or round up of guns.

It will be where it hurts us most; our pocket books.

I need to buy some "off the radar" ammo quick!

And I agree 200% with your post.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

And I agree 200% with your post.

+1

Well said.

[Rightwinger]

You have ammo shipped to your house? Hmh. Maybe it's time to re-think your habits. And, depending on the supplier, there may not be much of a record anyway.

I would be willing to bet that it would be a pretty cut-and-dried hearing for a judge to decide that enough probable cause existed to issue a warrant to search your home based on a FFL's bound book. Especially if the warrant is Federal. Tennessee still uses a higher standard for PC, but the Feds........well, they could have their grandma's chihuahua do treat tricks for testimony and, based on their standards, they'll get their warrant.

As to private sales.........that depends on the person from whom you purchase. I don't sell guns. I have the first TargetMaster I bought from a neighbor in 1979. It's my sincere hope that the people from whom I buy guns just don't remember who I am when the time comes. It's certainly better than having a black and white register of the transaction.

Who Dat?

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Who Dat?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I believe that Tungsten and Verbal may very well be moles! Their simmering disdain for me is fairly palpable. I'm pretty sure they're even passing notes about me when the teacher isn't looking.

But, seriously........let's say that I don't vote third party and John "close the gun show loophole" McCain wins the day. Worst case scenario, the government knows as little about my private life as is legally possible at this time. Best case scenario, I've got ten or twelve lowers that are only going to increase in value. This is a no-lose proposition for me, and the tax man didn't even get his tribute.

[TGO David]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I believe that Tungsten and Verbal may very well be moles! Their simmering disdain for me is fairly palpable.

HOOOOOO BOY! You sure do use your tongue prettier than a $2 whore!

Just so you don't go to bed tonight feeling more important than you usually do, I honestly could care less about you. I could care less about buying and selling privately. I could care less about how tightly you wind the tinfoil around your head.

I just think your inordinately severe distrust of the government is laughable and makes you look like a complete kook.

But that's just me. And you're free to be a kook.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

HOOOOOO BOY! You sure do use your tongue prettier than a $2 whore!

Just so you don't go to bed tonight feeling more important than you usually do, I honestly could care less about you. I could care less about buying and selling privately. I could care less about how tightly you wind the tinfoil around your head.

I just think your inordinately severe distrust of the government is laughable and makes you look like a complete kook.

But that's just me. And you're free to be a kook.

Classy!

[Guest price g]

My closet is full, could not pack anthor lower in there if I wanted to.

[Smith]

I'd say they are buying them first because they are a little more involved in getting. If things do get sticky, it won't be a big deal if they already have them. I would think it's a great thing, because whatever happens there is going to be a lot of unused ones floating around that I can pick up for good prices later on!

BTW - glad to see we are promoting good fellowship among members.

[strickj]

My closet is full, could not pack anthor lower in there if I wanted to.

Packng lower halves in the closet eh!

So,when you coming out of the closet?

Edited September 16, 2008 by strickj

[Guest abailey362]

Packng lower halves in the closet eh!

So,when you coming our of the closet?

Freudian slip????

[strickj]

:handsheadlowwhileleavingroom: