Bad idea AOW build

[Guest kingarmory]

One of our local dealers contacted us with this crazy idea for an AOW build and wanted it done.  This one was such a bad idea I was literally trying to talk them into a more sane build to keep the shooter from burning their hair off every time they shoot it.  There is still a bit of work to be done, waiting on picatinny blank stock to come in this week so we can install the front pistol grip a little aft of the forend tube.  Still a bit of machining/welding work to be done, but this pig should be done by next weekend.

 

 

 

[KKing]

Only one word comes to mind....discomfort

[DaveTN]

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

[peejman]

Other than making big fireballs and scaring your friends, is there any practical value to such a thing? 

[Oh Shoot]

Other than making big fireballs and scaring your friends, is there any practical value to such a thing? 

 

Concealment I guess. Though you couldn't legally tote it here I don't guess since it ain't a handgun?

 

Not sure you could even have it loaded with two shells in mag in vehicle either since it ain't a long gun either?

 

- OS

Edited January 5, 2014 by Oh Shoot

[TripleDigitRide]

I'm not sure about the muzzle device being directly over the magazine tube.

[Caster]

Your work is top notch to be sure, but the inspiration here is seriously lacking.

[Guest TresOsos]

Not crazy about the muzzle device, like the one in Dave's picture though.

[Garufa]

Other than making big fireballs and scaring your friends, is there any practical value to such a thing? 

 

No.  It's absurd.

[Guest kingarmory]

Other than making big fireballs and scaring your friends, is there any practical value to such a thing? 

 

Not really, outside of being able to light every cigarette in the room simultaneously perhaps?

[Guest kingarmory]

I'm not sure about the muzzle device being directly over the magazine tube.

 

Top and bottom 90deg portions of the breacher have no ports, it doesn't blow down on the mag tube.  Kinda hard to tell that from the pic though

[Guest kingarmory]

Your work is top notch to be sure, but the inspiration here is seriously lacking.

 

Wasn't too keen on this build myself.  Not here to be the arbiter of what is or isn't stupid though, I just provide the means and the credit card gateway ;)

[Guest kingarmory]

Only one word comes to mind....discomfort

Yup, saw this happen on a 10.5" AOW that was firing 3" buckshot :o  I got no use for a gun that I can't really aim and that kicks that bad.  SBS?  Sure.  AOW?  Not so much

 

Edited January 5, 2014 by kingarmory

[Troutburger]

I saw it on Facebook. I gotta admit I'm kinda crushing on it. I'd lose the breacher, but think it could be handy for fishing in grizzly country.

[Joe357]

With this so called shotgun, is it legal to own ?
When he/she shoots it and hurts or kills self or a bystander would you be liable? Sometimes it's no worth it. I for one wouldn't want to be within a thousand feet of this gun when shot. Edited January 5, 2014 by joe45

[KKing]

[quote name="joe45" post="1089875" timestamp="1388964972"]With this so called shotgun, is it legal to own ?[/quote] Tax stamp, just like a SBR. Yeah it's legal Edited January 5, 2014 by KKing

[Monkeyman2500]

Shot a super short Saiga not too long ago. It was a little longer than these, but not much. Was not much fun to shoot. Very loud, uncomfortable feel, lots of kick. Ran a couple mags through it and that was enough. These would be nasty.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you buy a shotgun that left the factory with a pistol grip it is not considered a "shotgun", it is considered a "firearm". The reason is a shotgun's definition requires it to have a shoulder stock or be capable of being shoulder fired. So when the shotgun does not meet the definition of a shotgun then it becomes a "firearm". And because it is a "firearm" and not a shotgun there are no barrel length requirements, only an overall length requirement which is 26" or more.

 

So if you buy a shotgun that had a pistol grip from the factory you can have any length barrel you want so long as the overall length is at least 26". There are opinion letters from the ATF stating a sample shotgun they were sent with a 17" barrel is perfectly legal because it was at least 26". I have also seen people get approval, without registering as an AOW, guns with a 12" barrel because the stock they used came far enough back to meet the 26" overall length.

 

The ATF also adds to their opinion letter regarding this that if a person is caught with it concealed on their person it would meet the definition of an AOW and a person could be charged with illegal possession of a NFA item.

 

I am really thinking a virgin AK receiver could be used to build a nice "firearm" using a Saiga 12 as a donor. Because the receiver is so long you could install a pistol AR buffer tube at the rear and end up with a ~12" barrel. And the best part is it would be completely legal so long as the overall length was 26". Imagine a Saiga 12 with a 12" barrel and a 20+ round magazine. You could probably use the buffer tube to carry extra ammo too.

 

Another great thing about a "firearm" vs a "pistol" is you can attach a forward grip to a "firearm" but not to a "pistol".

 

For example, this is NOT a NFA AOW:

It is just a "firearm", not a shotgun, because it is 26" or more long. And you can legally add a forward grip.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is an ATF opinion letter saying a pistol grip shotgun with a 17" barrel is NOT an NFA item because it is 26" long:

https://e8c9b3ab-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/openatf/2010-778.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cq8mLzTTqAv99BUAGTGtxWK2Y3RRaBxwFflnnUKqWOOlTZn6CYPTn-JO5lGY9JGOuflZX2TwfmLBFPICKEbiQM6lYAk-VKkql69Nb7GUbcccmeTn0gzLyfkL95-RNzoVwAeQa7-ZgGHfF6m8Cw7NO_7H9rTSML-1savxrfwxj5PIQL5FryNBgdzX05sfIDvk4a1VSgxz8a9ME3Ta8V4HumZtHRGMg%3D%3D&attredirects=0

 

And another letter:

https://e8c9b3ab-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/openatf/2010-1005.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cr-sprJ64N8kdoFMmEsUUUctdNGeqR_qoNEl_L5M5ByzimCzlZ4EL9Pcb8g6hhgFCQgA77-n3c6QsUiLjTJBZos_cd9I5aUOhmuSaLW1uK6pp2rycxvPa_suaYnfo_98GlgyiBFvuoahAOaovpEZ3W3g68gPJ4-KiJlp-5zGqEUotoIh6yo4TqyUywb0zRdM-khxdOOqule8Vm9DiwDjZ-fiL5wbg%3D%3D&attredirects=0

Edited January 6, 2014 by Dolomite_supafly

[KKing]

[quote name="Dolomite_supafly" post="1089898" timestamp="1388967724"]If you buy a shotgun that left the factory with a pistol grip it is not considered a "shotgun", it is considered a "firearm". The reason is a shotgun's definition requires it to have a shoulder stock or be capable of being shoulder fired. So when the shotgun does not meet the definition of a shotgun then it becomes a "firearm". And because it is a "firearm" and not a shotgun there are no barrel length requirements, only an overall length requirement which is 26" or more. So if you buy a shotgun that had a pistol grip from the factory you can have any length barrel you want so long as the overall length is at least 26". There are opinion letters from the ATF stating a sample shotgun they were sent with a 17" barrel is perfectly legal because it was at least 26". I have also seen people get approval, without registering as an AOW, guns with a 12" barrel because the stock they used came far enough back to meet the 26" overall length. The ATF also adds to their opinion letter regarding this that if a person is caught with it concealed on their person it would meet the definition of an AOW and a person could be charged with illegal possession of a NFA item. I am really thinking a virgin AK receiver could be used to build a nice "firearm" using a Saiga 12 as a donor. Because the receiver is so long you could install a pistol AR buffer tube at the rear and end up with a ~12" barrel. And the best part is it would be completely legal so long as the overall length was 26". Imagine a Saiga 12 with a 12" barrel and a 20+ round magazine. You could probably use the buffer tube to carry extra ammo too. Another great thing about a "firearm" vs a "pistol" is you can attach a forward grip to a "firearm" but not to a "pistol". For example, this is [color=rgb(255,0,0)][b][u]NOT[/u][/b][/color] a NFA AOW: It is just a "firearm", not a shotgun, because it is 26" or more long. And you can legally add a forward grip.[/quote] Great info, I didn't want to get into specifics since I figure there's no way the OP gun makes the 26" mark. Also a pretty neat idea for the virgin AK receiver...

Edited January 6, 2014 by KKing

[Joe357]

You have to love our government, looks like a shotgun, shoots shotgun shells only, but no stock, so not a shot gun, a firearm.

[KKing]

[quote name="joe45" post="1089904" timestamp="1388968554"]You have to love our government, looks like a shotgun, shoots shotgun shells only, but no stock, so not a shot gun, a firearm.[/quote] Yep, basically. Same government that makes you pay a $200 tax to have a barrel on a rifle that you own shorter than 16". Because a shorter barrel makes it more deadly, right? :eyeroll: Edited January 6, 2014 by KKing

[tennessee01tacoma]

Any other weapon tax stamp is only 15 dollars

[TMF]

Other than making big fireballs and scaring your friends, is there any practical value to such a thing?

Breaching doors. So no, unless your job requires that you conduct shotgun breaches on doors there is no practical reason to have one of these. But then again, I don't have any practical use for a Mk 48 machine gun, but I'd like one. Edited January 6, 2014 by TMF

[KKing]

[quote name="tennessee01tacoma" post="1089914" timestamp="1388969199"]Any other weapon tax stamp is only 15 dollars[/quote] Negative. If you make it an AOW, it's a $200 stamp. To transfer it is $5 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act