Electrical question - 3 way light switches

[NoBanStan]

My light fixture died in the kitchen and the previous owners did a ghetto job of hanging it. Basically they tied two wires into the existing wires, cut holes in the ceiling and fed those wires around the existing outlet to feed two separate lights.

 

I've removed all of the makeshift work they did and put up a new light fixture. It's a 3 way switch and it works... but whenever i turn the light on, i hear a rather loud "pop" coming from the switches (both of them do it). Obviously this isn't right, it didn't do it with the previous lights and i haven't touched the switches, so I imagine I've wired it incorrectly. 

 

Basically, here's what i have. 

 

The octagon represents the outlet box in the ceiling. I colored the white wires yellow (for visibility in the picture) and the blue dots indicate a wire nut. Also, please ignore that the red wire is sticking out of the outlet box, i just tossed this image together.

 

 

Maybe I didn't ground it correctly? I just tied the ground from the house wiring directly to the grounding wire on the light fixture.  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Oh and for the record, I've flipped off the breaker for the time being just in case. Thanks!

[Dennis1209]

You didn't tie the green (ground) wire into the black (hot) or white (common) at the switch did you?

 

If that's white and green connected at the wire nut (pop).

[Sam1]

don't ground the wire into the fixture's neutral and see what happens.

 

<edit> may be an issue with the fixture itself having a short, this would tell you yes/no.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sam1

[RED333]

Pick one of these pics and check yours.

https://www.google.com/search?q=3+way+circuit&client=firefox&hs=avn&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=8M616FiEqVy1_M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSnoLAqGJQbXBseaE0gtlarhLywseFwc0Uy8jeemb26v-2kVs4_yQ%253B443%253B269%253BBKKSsfQxBWtmSM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%25252Fwiring-a-3-way-switch.html&sa=X&ei=5hHIUpe1A43YyAGg7oDYCw&ved=0CDYQ9QEwAw&biw=1152&bih=736#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=8M616FiEqVy1_M%3A%3BBKKSsfQxBWtmSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%252Fimages%252F3-way-power-at-light2.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%252Fwiring-a-3-way-switch.html%3B443%3B269

you might have a wire pinched

[NoBanStan]

[quote name="Dennis1209" post="1088908" timestamp="1388839134"]You didn't tie the green (ground) wire into the black (hot) or white (common) at the switch did you? If that's white and green connected at the wire nut (pop).[/quote] I did not. Thanks

[NoBanStan]

[quote name="Sam1" post="1088930" timestamp="1388842973"]don't ground the wire into the fixture's neutral and see what happens. may be an issue with the fixture itself having a short, this would tell you yes/no.[/quote] I thought about this. It will be Sunday before I can try it. I'll give it whirl!

[NoBanStan]

[quote name="RED333" post="1088935" timestamp="1388843584"]Pick one of these pics and check yours. [url="https://www.google.com/search?q=3+way+circuit&client=firefox&hs=avn&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=8M616FiEqVy1_M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSnoLAqGJQbXBseaE0gtlarhLywseFwc0Uy8jeemb26v-2kVs4_yQ%253B443%253B269%253BBKKSsfQxBWtmSM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%25252Fwiring-a-3-way-switch.html&sa=X&ei=5hHIUpe1A43YyAGg7oDYCw&ved=0CDYQ9QEwAw&biw=1152&bih=736#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=8M616FiEqVy1_M%3A%3BBKKSsfQxBWtmSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%252Fimages%252F3-way-power-at-light2.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%252Fwiring-a-3-way-switch.html%3B443%3B269"]https://www.google.com/search?q=3+way+circuit&client=firefox&hs=avn&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=8M616FiEqVy1_M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSnoLAqGJQbXBseaE0gtlarhLywseFwc0Uy8jeemb26v-2kVs4_yQ%253B443%253B269%253BBKKSsfQxBWtmSM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%25252Fwiring-a-3-way-switch.html&sa=X&ei=5hHIUpe1A43YyAGg7oDYCw&ved=0CDYQ9QEwAw&biw=1152&bih=736#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=8M616FiEqVy1_M%3A%3BBKKSsfQxBWtmSM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%252Fimages%252F3-way-power-at-light2.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.how-to-wire-it.com%252Fwiring-a-3-way-switch.html%3B443%3B269[/url] you might have a wire pinched[/quote] I actually followed a diagram to configure it initially but none of them showed a fixture like mine with a grounding wire...so I wasn't sure how/where to connect it.

[Glenn]

http://www.familyhandyman.com/video/v/62195728/how-to-wire-a-3-way-light-switch.htm

 

Here is a good video that explains it. Possibly wired wrong at the switches.

[analog_kidd]

If everything works, and you are not popping breakers, then you probably have it wired correctly. Is the new fixture pulling more load? If so, there may be arcing going on inside the switches. Take off the cover plates and flip the switch several times. Do you smell ozone? That would be an indicator of arcing.

 

If the switches are old and cheap, you may want to just go ahead and change them out.

 

There are several ways to wire a 3-way, and they depend on where the source is coming from. Your diagram didn't indicate where the source is.

Edited January 4, 2014 by analog_kidd

[RED333]

I am a sparky by trade, I hate 3, 4 way circuits.

I still think he has a wire pinched, all he did was swap the light fixture.

[tnguy]

If everything works, and you are not popping breakers, then you probably have it wired correctly. Is the new fixture pulling more load? If so, there may be arcing going on inside the switches. Take off the cover plates and flip the switch several times. Do you smell ozone? That would be an indicator of arcing.

 

If the switches are old and cheap, you may want to just go ahead and change them out.

 

There are several ways to wire a 3-way, and they depend on where the source is coming from. Your diagram didn't indicate where the source is.

 

This. Your diagram is incomplete and needs to show the power incoming.

 

I think typically you don't see the switches wired that way, it goes power->Switch 1->switch 2->Fixture. Though there is undoubtedly a way to do it that way.

 

The ground doesn't really complicate things. They need to be tied all together and to any metal parts that aren't part of the circuit and to house ground. They don't participate in the active part of the circuit at all. Likewise, white is neutral and should be tied together and to neutral. Black and red are hot and comprise the "complicated" part of the circuit. I think the way you have it wired, you end up having to use the white as a hot wire which you would have to have an electrician tell you if that was to code.

 

(Apparently if you do this, you need to mark the white wire with black tape). http://www.homeimprovementweb.com/information/how-to/three-way-switch.htm

 

After studying your diagram some more, if the power is coming from the right, it looks like you have it correct. If it is working correctly as you say, it is difficult to see how it could be wrong anyway.

Edited January 4, 2014 by tnguy

[Dane]

[quote name="RED333" post="1088974" timestamp="1388847516"]I am a sparky by trade, I hate 3, 4 way circuits. I still think he has a wire pinched, all he did was swap the light fixture.[/quote] I'm with you on this. 3 ways are a pain enough, and I'd like to electrocute the person that came up with the 4 way switch. I don't think he pinched a wire if both switches are doing it. Although we don't have all the info I'm betting that he has a loose neutral (basically the ground is acting as a neutral). Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Guest dieselshadow]

Poor quality switches.... Half of the builders grade switches in my house pop when flipped. I'm replacing them with higher quality switches as they go bad.

[peejman]

Poor quality switches.... Half of the builders grade switches in my house pop when flipped. I'm replacing them with higher quality switches as they go bad.

That's my thought. If the circuit works properly and popping is in the switch, it's a bad switch.

[NoBanStan]

I think i'm going to replace the switches and see what that does.

 

I don't get the wiring in this house at all. the one switch box has 4 wires going into it, it's a total mess. the other one has a ground wire that's not attached to anything.....

[peejman]

I think i'm going to replace the switches and see what that does.

 

I don't get the wiring in this house at all. the one switch box has 4 wires going into it, it's a total mess. the other one has a ground wire that's not attached to anything.....

 

 

Sounds like my house.  I'm certain the plumber wired it.  No self respecting electrician would've done it that way. 

[tnguy]

This house has had at least 2 1/2 rewires since it was built. I went around a bunch of the outlets with one of those testers. Scary. I'd say shocking but none of that yet.

[RED333]

Sounds like my house.  I'm certain the plumber wired it.  No self respecting electrician would've done it that way. 

Ya know what a plumber is, brain dead electrician. LOL

Till ya ask a plumber, them it is the other around.

[Currently]

When you buy your switches and duplex outlets, please make sure they are commercial duty.

You will thank me in the coming years.

Contractor grade won't last. It is still safe, just works like crap after a couple years.

You ever plug in the vacuum and the plug keeps falling out?

[NoBanStan]

Bought myself a couple of new switches, the ones that light up in the dark. Sounds much better now. slightest amount of crackle if you go slower on the switch but that "pop" is completely gone now. I think that's got me taken care of. You guys rock as always. 

 

I think most of life's problems can be answered on TGO. 

[tnguy]

Well, if you have electrical issues, Mao did say that power comes from the barrel of a gun.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Is the fixture a flourescent? Or containing CFL bulbs, or even LED bulbs? All those contain transformers or inductors which can cause voltage spikes at turn-on (and turn-off). Some inductors more than others. Your fixture might be "unusually spiky".

Just sayin, a good turn-on spike could exacerbate any arcing.

I'm real ignorant, but Dane's idea-- Even if the arcing is now minimized, if it was me, maybe I'd get around to temporarily lifting the grounds and continuity checking the neutrals, back to the breaker box if possible (with the circuit de-energized of course).

But I'm ignorant of house wiring so take the advice of electricians not me.

Another thing to check, maybe I'm remembering wrong, but you would usually switch the hot leg (black wire). If it was wired bad enough maybe they are switching on neutral (white wire). Can get confusing with the extra wire necessary in three way circuits.

[NoBanStan]

Thanks but I think i'm good. I used it for the remainder of the evening and early this morning, no pops or crackles. I believe it was just crummy cheap 20 year old builders grade switches.