Remington R-51

[Guest TresOsos]

Don't do much for me...reminds me of this though.

 

[URL=http://s1023.photobucket.com/user/3Baers/media/other%20stuff/spacegun_zpsf913afad.jpg.html][/URL]

[Lumber_Jack]

[quote name="Garufa" post="1088161" timestamp="1388706805"]Let me be the first.... That thing is ugly and is insulting to the elegant lines of the original 51.[/quote] Glocks are ugly too, but I carry one every day. If it functions and fills a gap in my carry repertoire I'll give it a fair shake. I don't like it aesthetically as much as the sig 938, but it's have the cost and no thumb safety. You can always buy another gun for showing off ;)

[TripleDigitRide]

Neat looking little pistol, but I'm not a fan a grip safety. 

[KKing]

[quote name="TripleDigitRide" post="1088243" timestamp="1388713172"]Neat looking little pistol, but I'm not a fan a grip safety. [/quote] This. This. This. I will definitely give it a fair chance though.

[hipower]

Not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but please tell me why the grip safety is such a detrimental issue on some guns as in the XD line, the new R-51m and the like.

 

While it is not on the 1911 pistols.

 

And this is a serious question. Not trying to stir things up here.

[TrickyNicky]

TAKE MY MONEY!!! NOW!!!!

I'd like to try one out. It's not as snazzy as the vintage models but I still think it has nice lines and isn't ugly so much as not AS attractive as an original.

Also not sure if I'd be carrying an original around as an EDC either...

[TripleDigitRide]

Not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but please tell me why the grip safety is such a detrimental issue on some guns as in the XD line, the new R-51m and the like.

 

While it is not on the 1911 pistols.

 

And this is a serious question. Not trying to stir things up here.

I wouldn't carry a 1911 for the same reason. Plus, as neat as this thing looks, it's not a 1911. 

While I may or may not ever find myself in such a situation, I don't like the idea of being forced to have a firm enough grip to engage the grip safety. Not in a possible life and death situation, anyway. For target shooting, that's a different story. Just my  :2cents: 

[KKing]

[quote name="hipower" post="1088253" timestamp="1388714207"]Not trying to step on anyone's toes here, but please tell me why the grip safety is such a detrimental issue on some guns as in the XD line, the new R-51m and the like. While it is not on the 1911 pistols. And this is a serious question. Not trying to stir things up here.[/quote] I'll echo what TDR said. Any gun with a grip safety is a problem for me when I'm carrying it to defend myself. No matter the brand, model, whatever. The simpler I can make the process of defending myself under stress, the better off I'll be I feel. Many will say that a grip safety is fine because they train with it...well, that's all well and good, I just think you're making it harder than it ought to be and placing restrictions on yourself. Just me personally. For a range gun, I could care less. I have plenty with all kinds of safeties that are just plain fun to shoot Edited January 3, 2014 by KKing

[hipower]

I wouldn't carry a 1911 for the same reason. Plus, as neat as this thing looks, it's not a 1911. 

While I may or may not ever find myself in such a situation, I don't like the idea of being forced to have a firm enough grip to engage the grip safety. Not in a possible life and death situation, anyway. For target shooting, that's a different story. Just my  :2cents: 

 

I've never tried this...so I may have to now. Just how difficult/"firm enough" grip is it to fire a gun of either type? And if you don't have a "correct" grip, how sure can you be of where your shot is going?

 

Do you mean as in struggling with someone over the gun and just getting a finger on the trigger? As in the gun is being controlled by the assailant and all you can do is attempt to reach the trigger and force a shot?

[TripleDigitRide]

For the record, I don't want any manual safety on my carry weapon.

Edited January 3, 2014 by TripleDigitRide

[hipower]

I'll echo what TDR said. Any gun with a grip safety is a problem for me when I'm carrying it to defend myself. No matter the brand, model, whatever. The simpler I can make the process of defending myself under stress, the better off I'll be I feel. Many will say that a grip safety is fine because they train with it...well, that's all well and good, I just think you're making it harder than it ought to be and placing restrictions on yourself. Just me personally. For a range gun, I could care less. I have plenty with all kinds of safeties that are just plain fun to shoot

 

Again. Not being obtuse. But how hard is it to hold the pistol enough to activate the grip safety? If I don't have that much control over the pistol, do I need to be able/trying to fire it?

[TripleDigitRide]

 

 

 

Do you mean as in struggling with someone over the gun and just getting a finger on the trigger? As in the gun is being controlled by the assailant and all you can do is attempt to reach the trigger and force a shot?

Yes, or similar situations where you may not be able to get a proper grip on the weapon. It's just the kind of thing that I think about when imagining possible scenarios where I may need to defend myself in a less that ideal situation. 

[TripleDigitRide]

Again. Not being obtuse. But how hard is it to hold the pistol enough to activate the grip safety? If I don't have that much control over the pistol, do I need to be able/trying to fire it?

I guess you always have the option of waving the white flag.

[KKing]

[quote name="hipower" post="1088274" timestamp="1388715325"]Again. Not being obtuse. But how hard is it to hold the pistol enough to activate the grip safety? If I don't have that much control over the pistol, do I need to be able/trying to fire it?[/quote] It's just another factor to add into the equation. On my carry weapons I draw, and pull the trigger. I don't have to worry about if I have enough pressure on the backstrap while someone is beating me over the head until they see brains (think Zimmerman I guess). Many people only picture having to use their carry weapon under ideal situations, I just believe less processes to think about is less that can go wrong. I've heard the question posed "Would you have the ability to take that safety off while someone is trying to stab you with a knife?" Most would not, and most would not have the means to ensure a truly proper grip. Murphy's law to me Most don't think twice about manual safeties, it's just a personal thing Edited January 3, 2014 by KKing

[hipower]

For the record, I don't want any manual safety on my carry weapon.

 

Now, are we speaking of internal or external safety? And what about the "trigger safety"?

 

I agree with you TDR, that I do not want any form of external manual....wait. I almost stepped in it. Didn't I?  I'm speaking/thinking of such as a thumb safety on most pistols.

 

On that I will agree.

 

I guess it's how you view the whole Idea of the manual/external safety.

 

You've made me look at this in a slightly different light. And that's a good thing.

 

But I still don't see the drawback to the grip safety on the pistol.  So...until I change, or get my mind changed; we just look at it differently. Which is not a bad thing at all.

 

Thanks for your input, TDR.

[hipower]

Don't do much for me...reminds me of this though.

 

 

LOL.  I did think along the lines of a space gun as I saw the first pic of it.

[Guest TresOsos]

Guess I'm missing something here, I wouldn't want to draw and fire a weapon in self-defense without first having a firm and proper grip (control of) on the weapon.

To me a properly fit and functioning grip safety is a non issue.

[TripleDigitRide]

Now, are we speaking of internal or external safety? And what about the "trigger safety"?

 

I agree with you TDR, that I do not want any form of external manual....wait. I almost stepped in it. Didn't I?  I'm speaking/thinking of such as a thumb safety on most pistols.

 

On that I will agree.

 

I guess it's how you view the whole Idea of the manual/external safety.

 

You've made me look at this in a slightly different light. And that's a good thing.

 

But I still don't see the drawback to the grip safety on the pistol.  So...until I change, or get my mind changed; we just look at it differently. Which is not a bad thing at all.

 

Thanks for your input, TDR.

I don't see the trigger safety as being an issue. 

My first carry weapon was an XD40, and that has the grip safety. Once I started watching training videos and thinking more about possible scenarios, I got rid of the XD for a M&P. People have been carrying defensive weapons with a grip safety for a very long time, and I'm sure countless people will continue to do so. It's just a personal preference.  

[hipower]

TDR and KKing...thank you both for the comments you made. I appreciate them. I was in no way trying to argue or convert you, and I think you know this; but just wanted to be perfectly clear about it.

This was a good open discussion on something that I really believe others might ask about, just as I myself was curious about it.

So we accomplished something good.

[TripleDigitRide]

Guess I'm missing something here, I wouldn't want to draw and fire a weapon in self-defense without first having a firm and proper grip (control of) on the weapon.

To me a properly fit and functioning grip safety is a non issue.

Again, you're assuming every situation is going to allow for a proper full grip on the weapon. If it means life or death, I don't care if the only part of my body touching the gun is my trigger finger, I'm pulling the trigger.

[KKing]

[quote name="TresOsos" post="1088281" timestamp="1388716149"]Guess I'm missing something here, I wouldn't want to draw and fire a weapon in self-defense without first having a firm and proper grip (control of) on the weapon. To me a properly fit and functioning grip safety is a non issue.[/quote] So you contend that while someone is actively trying to kill you i.e. stab you, beat you, shoot you....you'll have the means to make sure you have the proper grip? Or are you more likely to make sure the projectile is pointed at the threat and pull the trigger? I'm not arguing, but let's not fool ourselves. You can't really train to draw while you're getting your skull crushed. Hard to say what you'd do for sure Edited January 3, 2014 by KKing

[TripleDigitRide]

TDR and KKing...thank you both for the comments you made. I appreciate them. I was in no way trying to argue or convert you, and I think you know this; but just wanted to be perfectly clear about it.

This was a good open discussion on something that I really believe others might ask about, just as I myself was curious about it.

So we accomplished something good.

No sweat. It's all good.  :cheers: 

[Joe357]

I looked at grip safety and or thumb safety from another side of the coin. Someone is fighting with me over a gun and he/she wins the gun, if he/she doesn't see or know how these safeties work, I may have time to get my backup gun and win the confrontation. Edited January 3, 2014 by joe45

[hipower]

... I've heard the question posed "Would you have the ability to take that safety off while someone is trying to stab you with a knife?" ...

Point taken. And this is taken a little out of contest to your full quote. But to me, that still would come under the heading of a safety lever/thumb safety; more so than the grip safety.

But, I do not disagree that there are circumstances and situations that could arise to cause problems either way.

And, as earlier stated, thanks for the discussion. I found it enjoyable and informative.

[KKing]

[quote name="joe45" post="1088292" timestamp="1388716828"]I looked at grip safety and or thumb safety from another side of the coin. Someone is fighting with me over a gun and he wins the gun, if he/she doesn't see or know how these safeties work, I may have time to get my backup gun and win the confrontation.[/quote] Valid counterpoint, but you've put yourself behind the curve on any other incidence that isn't like the one you described Wow, we derailed this train. To get back to the trail, like I said before, I'll definitely give this gun a fair shake. Especially since Glock is never going to release a single stack Edited January 3, 2014 by KKing