Gas

[Sheepdog]

Has anything else gone up in price?

There was no crisis here.There was a rumor of a crisis that caused long lines.Those long lines drove prices up even though their cost did not.That is price gouging.Plane and simple!

No, there was no crisis. Which proves my point all the more.

A minor economic hiccup, and you're calling for the abolition of owners' rights. How can you be trusted to honor people's rights if a real emergency hits?

A wise man once said, "There is nothing new under the sun." And that holds true for price controls, including controls on the price of gasoline. In America, even.

So since we have historical precedent, and you seem to have strong opinions on how the economy ought to be run, perhaps you can tell us what happens when the government controls the prices of goods and services? I mean, your opinions are based on something other than anger at the high cost of gas, aren't they?

Here's a handy dandy cheat sheet, if you need one.

[strickj]

A minor economic hiccup, and you're calling for the abolition of owners' rights. How can you be trusted to honor people's rights if a real emergency hits?

You keep bringing this up,so Ill answer it here.

In a real emergency where Alabama attacks us,and were left with out power,food,or transportation then,yes,I will be at the front of the line with my guns to overpower the gas stations that are selling their gas for 100 dollars a gallon!

No,you can not trust me if the siht hits the fan! Why,because my survival will be at stake!

Were not talking about that.We are talking about stations rising fuel prices because there is a line at the flippin pump!

Edited September 15, 2008 by strickj

[Im Neero]

When Alabama attacks I'm not going to the gas station. I'm going to the public library. They'll never find me there.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Were not talking about that.We are talking about stations rising fuel prices because there is a line at the flippin pump!

I suspect that the spike in wholesale gas prices had more to do with local fuel prices than the lines. If nothing else, I think it's disingenuous to say that long lines were the sole reason for price hikes.

Were the long lines a factor in price increases? Undoubtedly.

Were they the only factor? Of course not?

The question is just how dominant of a factor they were. My opinion, based on reports of wholesalers jacking their prices to $5/gallon, is that the sudden increase in demand paled in comparison to station owners being concerned about having to replace the gas in their tanks.

In short, I don't consider it gouging on the part of an individual station owner if he's raising his prices to reflect an increase in his supply costs. The question instead becomes whether the wholesalers are gouging.

[strickj]

In short, I don't consider it gouging on the part of an individual station owner if he's raising his prices to reflect an increase in his supply costs. The question instead becomes whether the wholesalers are gouging.

Sorry,but supply cost were not increased.This is evident by stations that did not rise prices. The only stations that had rises were those that had lines.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

OK, but there were certainly reports of wholesale prices hitting $5/gallon. So perhaps the question is one of motivation of the station owner. Did he legitimately believe that his next shipment was going to cost $5/gallon, and increase his prices accordingly? Were price increases driven by greed, or by fear?

I don't know. Then again, neither do you. So we each believe what we want to believe.

[Im Neero]

Gas prices didn't really go up much in Memphis, and some stations did not raise prices at all (mostly Exxons). Many of the ones that didn't raise prices ran out of gas, but the ones that raised their prices moderately, 25 to 50 cents or so, had no problem keeping gas in the tanks, from what I saw.

There wasn't much discussion in Memphis about a gas shortage.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Sorry,but supply cost were not increased.This is evident by stations that did not rise prices. The only stations that had rises were those that had lines.

That's not what I saw, though. The Raceway in Morristown was cheaper than anyone on Friday. By $.50. They had the lines. Not the other guys.

This is the way it was explained to me, but I don't know how accurate it is: most retailers make comparatively little off of the gas they sell. They also buy in lots, usually a week or two in advance. If they paid $x.xx per gallon this week, that doesn't necessarily determine what they'll charge for it. If gas is going to be higher the next load, they charge more now to have the money to purchase that next load. I don't know.

[strickj]

The station I worked for ordered gas as needed.Usually every two days

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

I don't know, man. I'm not qualified to argue the point. This I do know, though.......the higher gas prices we're seeing are a direct result of government mismanagement. All the more reason to run away screaming at the thought of more government involvement.

[Sheepdog]

You keep bringing this up,so Ill answer it here.

...

No,you can not trust me if the siht hits the fan! Why,because my survival will be at stake!

Well thanks for being so honest about it. This is exactly what I was referring to when I posted earlier:

...

You see, when the Schumer hits the fan, there are people out there who are going to say, "You've got food! You've got water! You've got medicines! You've got fuel! We've got nothing! That means you must help us!"

...

And that sad thing is, a lot of them are going to be gun owners who will justify murdering you and your family by saying, "Well, hell, it was an emergency, and we neeeeeeded that s***." Then they're going sit their asses down in front of their big-screen plasma TVs, and eat your MREs while waiting for the power to come back on.

Now, how many times will I have to bring up history before you tell us what happens when gas prices are artificially controlled--either by government decree, or by people threatening station attendants with their arsenals? Is your solution going to make things better for everyone, or just for you?

[Guest jackdog]

Gas in dallas fort worth 3.49 a gallon on average. Austin and San Antonio about the same. Guess TN only had the high gas prices.

[Guest 70below]

The thing that gets me about the high prices here in East TN has to do with stations who appear (I don't know, the market, maybe its justified) to be gouging. This morning on the radio it was claimed the average price of gas in the Knoxville Area is $4.24 a gallon. I've not seen that low, but perhaps its out there. I have seen a lot of $4.49 and alot of $4.99 a gallon. Interestingly, all the $4.49 stations are grouped in the same area for the most part, and all the $4.99 gas stations are grouped in the same areas. Now am I expected to believe that all of the shell, exxon, and BP stations on one side of town are getting their gas for 50 cents a gallon cheaper than the other side of town?

It doesn't cost 50 cents to ship a gallon of gas across town, and its the same wholesalers providing gas to those stations. I remember when people would raise hell over .03 price differences, but now its nothing for us to accept price differences of 50 cents? Also, I remember when the big panic started Pilot stations announced that they had plenty of gas and not to panic, which was admirable I thought, but now, just after the panic is over, their gas prices are among the highest at $4.99. I don't believe the price of gas or the profits fuel companies make should be regulated, that is the job of the marketplace in a capitalistic society. But I do believe we in the marketplace need to do our part.

As far as whining, crying, and taking it to the government to fix all our problems.....I'll consider listening to anyone that commutes using a Geo Metro, hybrid, or electric car and has done their part before complaining. We all need to take responsibility for our own financial situations, and not expect the government or a company executive whose job is to make profit for the company and the shareholders to fix it for us.

[shaftbass]

OK, but there were certainly reports of wholesale prices hitting $5/gallon. So perhaps the question is one of motivation of the station owner. Did he legitimately believe that his next shipment was going to cost $5/gallon, and increase his prices accordingly? Were price increases driven by greed, or by fear?

Around me, two stations across the street from each other jumped to $4.69 Friday while stations half a mile up the road never went up $4.

I have no way of knowing about what you said so I'm just turning them in for gouging and letting the Dept of Energy figure it out

[Guest mikedwood]

The headline on a CNN story this morning was "Gas prices surge nearly 5 cents".

if 5 cents is a surge then there is no word in the dictionary for what happened in Knoxville and Oak Ridge this weekend.

I'm not sure who is to blame. I think everyone is to blame.

I went without water last Monday and today because they are working n the water lines.

My Comcast was out Tuesday and Wednesday cause they suck. (and lied to me and my neighbor, they are getting bad)

Gas was out 10 miles around my house on Friday and Saturday.

Water is out again today.

I'm getting a complex I tell you.

This wonderful ride of stocks rising and everyone that can breathe being able to buy a home as well as the nation running on credit is over.

The money made went to profits instead of upgrades and we are damn near becoming a 3rd world country quick. Profit at all and any costs is dangerous in the long run, it's about to really hurt with the energy problems we will face in the next few years. Not just gas.

[Guest johnnyo]

I rode my Harley to South Carolina this past Friday. I had a full tank when I left here I rode over past Asheville on I-26 and was running low I went to stop for gas three times. There was none to be had. Luckily a guy who worked at a garage behind the third gas station wanted to help me. He pulled a wrecked car into the bay lifted it up and pumped me some gas out of that car. What a wonderful man for helping an almost stranded biker. In South Carolina they were rationing gas to only 10 gallons per person. Good idea also the governor over there is going to issue subpoenas to gas stations who price gouge.

[PackinMama]

When Alabama attacks I'm not going to the gas station. I'm going to the public library. They'll never find me there.

LOL

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Fox just reported there are gas stations in Houston that gas is $3.34 a gallon, compaired to South Carolina at over $5.00 a gallon in places.

My bottom is hurting.....

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Gas is, on average, higher around here than in CA. That's just not the way it's supposed to be.

[Marswolf]

OH MY. Gasoline went up!!!!!

In my local market it went up from about $3.68 before the mindless panic to $3.99 today. A whole 31 cents!!! :panic:

That's 7.8%. And virtually all of that was caused by mindless and misinformed (at best) panic. Meanwhile oil has dropped below $100 per barrel. 10 oil rigs -roughly 5% of the gulf rigs- were "destroyed"). Fewer than the oil companies expect.

(Graphic from a previous storm)

Refineries have planned-for electric power backup (they know WTF they are doing), but I did see two power company convoys on the interstate yesterday to help the general region. US companies had already ordered refined gasoline from their international affiliates before this event (again, they know WTF they are doing). This is very short term. There is, and never was, a shortage as long as hundreds of thousands of fools didn't have to have a full gas tank. I have a half tank of gasoline and I'll buy again after the prices fall.

The only company around the area I traveled yesterday that might look like a gouger was Pilot. But I suspect their buyers panicked too and bought wholesale gasoline way above a reasonable wholesale price. So they weren't gouging either. They thought everyone else was going to run out of gasoline and so got ripped by their suppliers. In short, they are going to get burned. They can't sell gasoline for $1 more than their competition. Memo: Sell Pilot stock. They have idiot buyers.

BTW, we have no Pilot stations in our area.

So, rant against the wind if you like. It was basically a two day problem caused by consumer stupidity. Local stations will sell their overpriced gasoline in a few days and things will settle down until the next consumer insanity.

I did wait in line for about 10 minutes on Friday, and paid $3.99, because I absolutely had to go to Cookeville and back yesterday. It wasn't panic but reality. A tank would get me there, but not back. I wasn't sweating it. If I hadn't had to make that trip, I would have waited until later this week to get gasoline.