Selling across state lines

[Guest King703]

Hello,

I live in TN and I own an AR15.  My dad who lives in IL wants to buy it.  He has a FOID card and is a legal gun owner.  Can I simply write a bill of sale and sell it to him?  Would he be able to transport the gun across state lines legally?  

Thank you

King703

[Blitzen]

I think the sale must go through a FFL to be legal. Other forum readers are probably way more qualified to answer this question. I have always madesure a person is in state citizen and qualified to own a gun before selling. "Bill of Sale" going to IL. Hmmm. Selling a gun to go to IL that I bought after a background check. Hmmm. From what I've read IL is not gun friendly to anybody, just saying. Edited December 24, 2013 by Blitzen

[E4 No More]

I sold a rifle to a guy in Illinois, and it had to be shipped to an FFL.

[tnguy]

Christmas is tomorrow ;)

[runco]

You can only transfer (give, sell, donate, etc.) to another resident of the same state that you live in without going through a FFL providing that person is legal to own a firearm.

[RED333]

     http://www.fedcoplaw.com/html/federal_firearms_laws.html

 

  13.       Transferring Personal Firearms (sell, give, loan)

                        a.         A resident of a State may transfer a firearm to a resident of the same State.

                                    1)        But may not transfer a Hand Gun to a person under 18 years of age, § 922 (x)(1), 1 year or 10 years; see exceptions, § 922 (x)(3).

                        b.         A resident of a State may not transfer a firearm to a resident of another State, § 922 (a)(5), 5 years, but ...

                                    1)        May transfer a firearm to a non-resident via a Will or intestate succession (no Will but State law describes division of estate), § 922 (a)(5)(A).  May loan or rent a firearm to a non-resident for temporary lawful sporting purposes, § 922 (a)(5)(B). May send or deliver a firearm to a non-resident by first delivering the firearm to an FFL in the recipient’s State; the transfer would then take place at the FFL’s premises, § 922 (a)(1)(A).  

Edited December 24, 2013 by RED333

[tnhawk]

The cost of an FFL transfer is much less than the cost of an atty.

[monkeylizard]

Send it to an FFL near him. There's no law that says you have to send it from an FFL in TN, but the FFL in IL may require it as their own policy, so check with the FFL you're sending to and ask them if they'll receive a transfer directly from you or if they want it to come from another FFL.

[tnguy]

It sounds like if you took it up there, you could just visit an FFL for the transfer.

[bersaguy]

Illinois has some very crazy laws about guns so I would research it very thoroughly before making any transactions..............jmho

[RED333]

Save your self the time, ship from a FFL to a FFL.

[Guest King703]

I appreciate the help, everyone.  Looks like I'll be contacting an FFL.

[Motasyco]

You could loan it to him. 

[RED333]

Not across state lines, only if the other person comes to TN and the rifle stays in TN.

 

You could loan it to him. 

[Oh Shoot]

You could loan it to him.

Not across state lines, only if the other person comes to TN and the rifle stays in TN.

 
Not true, federally. Under 18USC 922, "the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes" is an exception to prohibitions against private transfer between non same state residents.

 

The duration of "temporary" is not defined in the statute or in 921 which contains definitions for 922.
 
- OS

Edited December 26, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RED333]

It still has to stay in the owners state, if the owner takes it to another state, it can not be loaned, it has to be done through a FFL..

[Oh Shoot]

It still has to stay in the owners state, if the owner takes it to another state, it can not be loaned, it has to be done through a FFL..

 

You can make up a law if you like, but that doesn't make it true. (Feel free to cite the federal law that refutes me).

 

- OS

[monkeylizard]

OS is right. There could possibly be IL state laws prohibiting bringing one in without it going through an FFL (I can barely keep TN laws straight and know only enough about IL to know that I don't want to deal with them), but the Fed says loaning across state lines is A-OK.

[RED333]

You can make up a law if you like, but that doesn't make it true. (Feel free to cite the federal law that refutes me).

 

- OS

POST #6

         1)        May transfer a firearm to a non-resident via a Will or intestate succession (no Will but State law describes division of estate), § 922 (a)(5)(A).  May loan or rent a firearm to a non-resident for temporary lawful sporting purposes, § 922 (a)(5)( B). May send or deliver a firearm to a non-resident by first delivering the firearm to an FFL in the recipient’s State; the transfer would then take place at the FFL’s premises, § 922 (a)(1)(A).

[RED333]

I did not make up the law. We all can read it and get 2 or 3 diff ways it will come out.

When I do not know I will fall back on using a FFL.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

I did not make up the law. We all can read it and get 2 or 3 diff ways it will come out.

When I do not know I will fall back on using a FFL.

That's always the safest way I suppose.  On the other hand, I think it's helpful to sometimes look for liberty-exploiting gray areas & use them to the fullest.  When one can find an attorney that agrees with a reasonable gray-area interpretation, I say seize it.

[Guest RebelCowboySnB]

I can dang near pee off the porch an hit 2 other states. The law can say what it wants be we all know that people that live where I do trade guns across state lines all the time.  Not that I would do such a thing....

[Oh Shoot]

POST #6

         1)        May transfer a firearm to a non-resident via a Will or intestate succession (no Will but State law describes division of estate), § 922 (a)(5)(A).  May loan or rent a firearm to a non-resident for temporary lawful sporting purposes, § 922 (a)(5)( B). May send or deliver a firearm to a non-resident by first delivering the firearm to an FFL in the recipient’s State; the transfer would then take place at the FFL’s premises, § 922 (a)(1)(A).

 

Transfer is a permanent situation, loan or rental is not.

 

Again, read 18 USC 922. Even in the sketchy FAQ you quoted, it says you may loan or rent a firearm to a non-resident,  as I said and I assure you there is nothing in the statute about it having to be done in either lender's or lendee's state.

 

Private transfer of a firearm between residents of different states is illegal by federal law regardless of where they occur. Loan or rental of a firearm is legal by federal law between residents of different states regardless of where they occur.

 

I'm a little unsure about the "rental" part without an FFL however, believe it could easily fall under the "being in the business" section, so I wouldn't really consider that as an individual.

 

- OS

Edited December 26, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RED333]

I see your point OS, I will not go any further.