Effective 9mm range in carbine

[bayouvol]

This has probably been discussed but I could not find it. How far is the effective range against a human from the carbine? I know that deer is only 100 yards max. What do you think?

[TrickyNicky]

If deer would be 100 max for hunting (don't know for sure, just assuming) I'd figure it would be at least effective a bit further if you were only concerned about filling your belly instead of humane kills. I'd figure maybe 150 yards or so would still be plenty lethal for man, with the right loads maybe even out a bit further?

I'm guessing between 150-200 yards depending upon variables. Likely lethal MUCH farther out, but not "effective".

[Caster]

For two legged creatures it really depends on how proficient you are with said rifle.
Obviously for deer, the limit is dictated by a desire for a clean and humane kill.
HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, a clean kill is less important when you're shooting at something you have no respect for.
Taking that into account, most people would be surprised how little it takes to get penetration.

[dcloudy777]

Figuring a 147gr at 1500 muzzle velocity (doable from a carbine barrel), you still have 300+ ft/lbs at 200 yards, and that will ruin your whole day if delivered in a vital area.

 

It's also dropping more than 3 feet at that range, so basically, the bullet will do its job at a greater distance you can count on making consistent hits anyway. 

[UncleJak]

[quote name="Caster" post="1082367" timestamp="1387668483"]For two legged creatures it really depends on how proficient you are with said rifle. Obviously for deer, the limit is dictated by a desire for a clean and humane kill. HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, a clean kill is less important when you're shooting at something you have no respect for. Taking that into account, most people would be surprised how little it takes to get penetration.[/quote]I'd be comfortable with mine out to 200 yards based on this sound logic. Sent barefoot from the hills of Tennessee

[KKing]

I've never shot mine at further than 100, but this thread sure makes me want to

[will_reed]

[quote name="dcloudy777" post="1082379" timestamp="1387669360"]Figuring a 147gr at 1500 muzzle velocity (doable from a carbine barrel), you still have 300+ ft/lbs at 200 yards, and that will ruin your whole day if delivered in a vital area. It's also dropping more than 3 feet at that range, so basically, the bullet will do its job at a greater distance you can count on making consistent hits anyway. [/quote] Do you have any load data for that? I've tried to break 1500 with a 124gr XTP and haven't been able to get there, I always either run out of case capacity or hit pressure signs. The best I've been able to do is 1425 with the 124... Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

[dcloudy777]

Do you have any load data for that? I've tried to break 1500 with a 124gr XTP and haven't been able to get there, I always either run out of case capacity or hit pressure signs. The best I've been able to do is 1425 with the 124... Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

 

No, because I calculated with 147gr instead of 124  Sorry.  Please don't try to get 1500pfr out of a 9mm 147gr.  :surrender:

 

My basic theory still holds up though... the bullet will still do the job out to at least the range that most folks can reliably hit with it. 

Edited December 22, 2013 by dcloudy777

[will_reed]

I thought I was pushing it with my loads, when I saw your post I about flipped out. Ha! The furtherest I've ever shot mine was 100 yards, but it shot extremely well there. I think man sized targets at 200 is more doable than most folks think. Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

[Dolomite_supafly]

If the ammo is for the carbine only and can never get mixed up and loaded in a pistol you can go a lot hotter.

I use small rifle primers and I HAVE pushed the limits and beyond. I will not go into detail but I shot 90 grain FMJ's to 2,000 fps out of my blowback AR carbine in 9mm. I will say I was stupid and will never try it again. I will say the carbine showed no signs of problems after although he brass was ruined. Problems arise when a person tries to contain the pressure, like through a locked breech. But with a blowback it is a lot more forgiving when pressures are high. The recoil also goes up significantly.

I tell people all the time that out of a carbine barrel the 9mm is transformed into a 357 magnum. Most bullet weights are similar between the two as well.

[will_reed]

I tried to stick with powders and charge weights that would work in both. I got the best groups and nice velocity with a case FULL of Unique. Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

[1gewehr]

Hitting out to 200 yards with a 9mm is not that difficult.  If you are sighted in properly, it's just a matter of knowing your aiming point, and controlling the shot.  My Sterling SMG is easily capable of it when firing singles.  The Swedish K I used to have (see my avatar) didn't have any problems doing it, either.  I have a buddy with an Uzi and we've both done it with that as well.  It should be easier with a closed-bolt gun like a pistol-caliber carbine.

 

I have not tried it with my M10/45 as the trigger really sucks and the sights don't adjust.

 

People die from getting hit with a .22 at much longer ranges.  A 9mm makes a much bigger hole.

[Guest Bonedaddy]

I've seen vids of .22lr punchin' through 1/2 inch plywood at 400 yds easily, so it's gotta be good out there a ways, "IF" you can make the shot.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Are all the 9mm semi auto carbines blowback, or are there a few lonely specimens out there somewhere that use inertial locked breech (like pistols) or gas operation? Just curious.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are some gas operated 9mm AR's but they are custom made. I have been told they shoot like 22's though.

 

A blowback 9mm will have a bigger recoil impulse than most 223 AR's.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

There are some gas operated 9mm AR's but they are custom made. I have been told they shoot like 22's though.

A blowback 9mm will have a bigger recoil impulse than most 223 AR's.

Thanks Dolomite.

I need to remember to check whether my blowback beretta storm has more recoil than my .223 msar. (don't have a .223 ar unless I get around to building the tgo receiver) I don't recall either one of them having much recoil, but maybe the beretta does recoil more. Would be interesting to check.

[KKing]

[quote name="Dolomite_supafly" post="1082647" timestamp="1387733578"]There are some gas operated 9mm AR's but they are custom made. I have been told they shoot like 22's though. A blowback 9mm will have a bigger recoil impulse than most 223 AR's.[/quote] This has been my experience. I prefer to shoot my dads 45acp carbine more than my 9mm carbine. Not that the 9mm has harsh recoil, but it definitely has more of a "sharp" pulse compared to the smooth recoil of the 45

[orientalexpress]

There are some gas operated 9mm AR's but they are custom made. I have been told they shoot like 22's though.

A blowback 9mm will have a bigger recoil impulse than most 223 AR's.

Ron Williams was making all the pistol calibers in DI. I think he even had one in 7.62x25.

[orientalexpress]

I sent a few emails with him a couple of years ago. He told me that the only way to get the 9mm DI to cycle was to hand load 147gr. But it was super soft shooting. The 115gr target ammo wouldn't cycle it. Maybe he hasn't it worked by now.

[orientalexpress]

I have built two AR's in 7.62x25 but they were blowback. I have built several bolt guns in the caliber as well. I will build one again some day because it is even more miserly than the 300 Blackout when shooting subsonic loads.

Here are some rounds of mine from long ago.


My Savage:

And here is the Savage with the tensioning sleeve removed.

That's super cool

[RWF]

I got the wife one for being a good girl for Christmas. she loves it.

but anyway if you looking for hi power for your 9mm carbine you could try 9mm major loads. to make major (USPSA) a 124 grain bullet from a 5" barrel needs to be around 1440 fps.