Generators

[tnhawk]

During a hot weather power loss, I use portable ac units and fans.  During cold weather, the fan motor and thermostat of a gas furnace are a small load on my generator.  My generator has provided ample power for microwave oven, refrigerator, directv, laundry, amateur radio, computer and lighting.  I run it on a regular schedule due to the problems of ethanol in the gasoline.  I'll probably convert it to run on propane next year.

[enfield]

Even natural gas whole-house generators are programmed to automatically run under load every few weeks.

[TerryW]

Even natural gas whole-house generators are programmed to automatically run under load every few weeks.

 

 

 

My Generac runs every week but it doesn't take any load from the house it just runs internal system checks and charges the battery.  For it to load from the house it would have to shut the power off from MTEMC and it can't do that. Others may be able to but mine doesn't.

[enfield]

I stand corrected.  I knew they run automatically, and the best practice for portable generators is to run them under load --  tests both the engine and the generator.  An automatic backup generator COULD have an internal load consisting of no more than an air-cooled resistor to draw a few amps to load the system during testing.  Wonder why they don't?

[tnguy]

A really simple air-cooled resistor is a light bulb. They typically only draw a fraction of an amp though.

[Mark A]

Well... I've been bad and not run my generator in about 5 years. I used to be really proactive and run it every 3 months unless we'd had it out camping. I did shut it down correctly but anyway...

Today I changed the oil and spark plug, cleaned the air filter and filled it up.

Started on the first pull. You've got to love Honda's...

Mark

[R_Bert]

In case it is not obvious,

If you are going to hook it up to the breaker box, you have to make damn sure you do not back-feed into the power grid and kill a unsuspecting lineman.

Better yet, get a licensed electrician to install a transfer switch to COMPLETELY disconnect your house from the grid when using the genset.

Just throwing a few breakers does NOT do the job.

[thundersnow]

Any recommended electricians in the nashville area (or Tgo members?) that could install a transfer switch?

[bigwakes]

I have a Generac 5500 that I converted to Propane. I also have a 500 gallon propane tank. I still need to get the fittings to set it up on the tank. Just using 20 and 30 pound tanks for now.

[zgunbear]

I have a Generac 5500 that I converted to Propane. I also have a 500 gallon propane tank. I still need to get the fittings to set it up on the tank. Just using 20 and 30 pound tanks for now.

I ended up getting the same generator. What kit did you use to convert it? can you still run gas or is it dedicated to propane?

[R_Bert]

I have a Generac 5500 that I converted to Propane. I also have a 500 gallon propane tank. I still need to get the fittings to set it up on the tank. Just using 20 and 30 pound tanks for now.

How long does a 30 lb tank last ?

[runco]

I bet generators would bring a premium this morning.  Listening to the radio out of Knoxville.  Many people without power.

[Guest theconstitutionrocks]

In case it is not obvious,

If you are going to hook it up to the breaker box, you have to make damn sure you do not back-feed into the power grid and kill a unsuspecting lineman.

Better yet, get a licensed electrician to install a transfer switch to COMPLETELY disconnect your house from the grid when using the genset.

Just throwing a few breakers does NOT do the job.

THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP!!! 

[monkeylizard]

In case it is not obvious,

If you are going to hook it up to the breaker box, you have to make damn sure you do not back-feed into the power grid and kill a unsuspecting lineman.

Better yet, get a licensed electrician to install a transfer switch to COMPLETELY disconnect your house from the grid when using the genset.

Just throwing a few breakers does NOT do the job.

 

This, or run a totally separate system. I've considered running a line from an outside wall box with a twist lock to an interior closet with a 4-gang box mounted up with 4 duplex outlets. Then run extension cords through the house to run the things I need to run. Totally separate from the real electrical system. Cheaper 'cuz I can do that myself, but less convenient with the extension cords. It also doesn't allow me to power my HVAC air handlers (gas heat) for winter outages. My genny could handle those, but not the compressors for summer AC.

 

Word of warning for Hondas....ALWAYS follow the manual for storing them. I didn't one time and the carb is gummed up. Now I get to experience the joy of rebuilding it.

Edited January 8, 2014 by monkeylizard

[thundersnow]

Word of warning for Hondas....ALWAYS follow the manual for storing them. I didn't one time and the carb is gummed up. Now I get to experience the joy of rebuilding it.

No chance you want to post a how to video on that rebuild?

[peejman]

This, or run a totally separate system. I've considered running a line from an outside wall box with a twist lock to an interior closet with a 4-gang box mounted up with 4 duplex outlets. Then run extension cords through the house to run the things I need to run. Totally separate from the real electrical system. Cheaper 'cuz I can do that myself, but less convenient with the extension cords. It also doesn't allow me to power my HVAC air handlers (gas heat) for winter outages. My genny could handle those, but not the compressors for summer AC.

 

Word of warning for Hondas....ALWAYS follow the manual for storing them. I didn't one time and the carb is gummed up. Now I get to experience the joy of rebuilding it.

 

 

Carb rebuild for a small single cylinder engine is pretty easy, there's not much to them.  A motorcycle with 4 carbs that have work together... that's not so easy.  If you're really averse to rebuilding it, look for a whole new carb.  Sometimes they can be had for less than the cost of the rebuild parts. 

 

As for storage... 100% gas with Stabil.  Ethanol is the enemy. 

[monkeylizard]

I'm leanining towards getting a whole new carb assembly and then have it converted to handle tri-fuel by CMD. Then I don't plan on ever putting gasoline in it ever ever ever again. Nothing but natural gas or propane.

 

I don't really feel that my skills are up to the task of rebuilding and drilling my existing carb. If any Nashville area TGOers have mad machining/small engine skills that would like to take on the challenge with me, I'm sure I could get some ammo or something rounded up for you. Since my current carb is kinda screwed up anyway, I can't send it to CMD for the conversion by them.

Edited January 8, 2014 by monkeylizard

[monkeylizard]

No chance you want to post a how to video on that rebuild?

 

I found this thread about a year ago. It's not for a rebuild, but for converting a Honda eu6500is over to tri-fuel. Lots of good information in it including a video on how to remove the carb.

 

http://www.powerequipmentforum.com/forum/9-generator-forum/553-honda-eu6500is-tri-fuel-conversion.html

 

If I do end up doing a rebuild, I'll try to remember to make a video of it or at least take lots of photos for a step-by-step guide.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Converting to tri fuel sounds interesting. Does propane have any tendency at all to go bad over time? Or is it likely to gradually leak away over years, even if stored in good quality tanks? Just wondering if there would be any warts at all in relying mostly on propane.

[monkeylizard]

AFAIK, no. One downside to a conversion is that both natural gas and propane burn hotter than gasoline. That will take its toll on the generator's internal parts, specifically the exhaust valves. It's hard to know exactly how that translates in terms of hours of life lost to using non-gasoline fuels. The genny may also produce less output when running on those fuels, though how much less depends greatly on the genny itself and weather conditions. Still, I'll take a slight drop in output to have a steady supply of fuel that doesn't need to be cycled out.

 

I'm far from an expert on these things. Those are just some things I've picked up from internet forums on the topic.

[Dane]

[quote name="monkeylizard" post="1091642" timestamp="1389211462"]AFAIK, no. One downside to a conversion is that both natural gas and propane burn hotter than gasoline. That will take its toll on the generator's internal parts, specifically the exhaust valves. It's hard to know exactly how that translates in terms of hours of life lost to using non-gasoline fuels. The genny may also produce less output when running on those fuels, though how much less depends greatly on the genny itself and weather conditions. Still, I'll take a slight drop in output to have a steady supply of fuel that doesn't need to be cycled out. I'm far from an expert on these things. Those are just some things I've picked up from internet forums on the topic.[/quote] I ran propane buffers for several years. Of the 6 or 8 Kawasaki engines that I ran I never had any engine problems. These machines ran an average of 4-6 hours per night 6-7 nights a week. So, while propane may run hotter I don't think it is significant enough to damage the engine over the long run. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[peejman]

While the propane/methane does burn hotter, the gas is so much cleaner than gasoline that the engine will show practically zero wear.  There's no carbon/soot build up, no fouling, etc.  Dad used to deal with propane powered chevy trucks at a power plant.  After 200k miles running around the plant, they looked new inside. 

[Glenn]

I did some searching before I bought a generator. It seems a number of "experts" say that running electronics from a generator is not a problem.  One article was written by an electrical engineer explaining in great detail (that I didn't understand) why it was ok. Can't find that one right now, but here are a couple.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Electronics-3923/2009/1/Inverter-vs-non-inverter.htm

http://ask.metafilter.com/56529/Running-a-computer-with-a-generator

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I suspect that the bargain generators may be hostile to sensitive electronics but could be wrong.

My coleman I got more than a decade ago seems built well, but I saw online comments about nasty power, so I checked mine with oscilloscope.

Used a 12.6 V filament transformer to protect myself from possible tragedies and loaded the genny with a couple hundred watt light bulb resistive load, and looked at the power waveform.

It was close enough to rock'n'roll to a sine wave, but had numerous high voltage spikes per wave cycle riding on the waveform. Short spikes as best I recall more than 100 volts higher than the peak of the AC power wave, 8 or 9 spikes per half wave.

I suspect the spikes are caused at each transition on the armature pickup contacts, which is segmented in many segments on that genny.

Maybe if the genny were loaded more heavily, the spikes would be attenuated, but what if a computer and a couple of lights is the only thing connected?

Maybe a computer could survive getting hit with all those brief spikes, but I'd rather not risk it. I guarantee those spikes would tear up an ordinary surge suppressor which relies on MOV components, and a lot of gear will have an MOV built in, and the spikes would eat up those as well.

I checked around at the time and located a manufacturer of ferro resonant voltage regulators, who sold a lot of them to the military. The man said that in bosnia the military was having lots of computer failures in the field from bad genny power, and the FR regulators were the only thing tough enough to survive the environment. Mebbe he was lying but that was his story.

I bought a surplus 500 watt FR regulator which weighs more than 50 pounds in a huge rack mount enclosure, tested it on my coleman, and it removed all the dirt and output the purtiest sine wave you ever saw.

Unfortunately, maybe not all FR regulators are acoustically noisy, but the one I got buzzed louder than an ageing neon sign transformer. Was thinking maybe I'd run some of my studio gear on that regulator, but it was too dern annoying loud buzz in the studio. Like an electric shaver from hell. Edited January 9, 2014 by Lester Weevils

[tnguy]

It's my understanding that switch-mode power supplies are not as sensitive as traditional transformers