Generators

[zgunbear]

I have been shopping for a generator in the $500 to $600 range.

Looking for 3500 to 4000 watt range.

I see that there are gas powered and propane powered. While some use can use both fuels.

Does anyone have experience with the dual fuel units? Are they worth it?

[seez52]

I've got one and if you're planning on having it for emergencies its the only way to go. Mine is actually a gas unit with a propane conversion kit. It will run on either fuel now.

Propane does not provide the same amount of energy as gasoline so the rated power output will be less when running on LP. Mine should also run on natural gas but I don't currently have a gas meter capable of providing sufficient flow.

I keep about 200 lbs of LP on hand and don't have to worrry about it going bad.

[runco]

I don't know anything about the duel fuels, but I do have experience with generators. All I can say is Honda all the way. Doubt you can find a used one in your price range, but you will never be disappointed.

[Caster]

Honda is the only way to go. Period.


Having said that, a generator is a very poor choice for SHTF power. It's noisy and non renewable. How will you feed it? If you want a better solution to SHTF power, start studying up on solar.

[Dane]

Generac 5500 watt LP. A little more than your budget but will handle most of a house needs. On a standby generator I would go LP. No worries about bad fuel. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[enfield]

You'll need to exercise your generator at least monthly - 15 minutes under load to keep it in good working order and reliable. This is especially important on gasoline generators. Be aware that most of the cheaper generators are unGodly loud and you won't want to run it at night.

During the worst weather or a grid outage you won't be able to buy gasoline, so stock up to your level of comfort, stabilize the gas, and use and replace it regularly.

I owned my first generator over 10 years before I needed it, but it saved me a lot of trouble when I did need it. Now I own two.

If I ever buy another, it'll run on natural gas or propane. Edited December 20, 2013 by enfield

[enfield]

The Honda gensets are good but expensive. You can buy two quiet Champion gensets for the price of one Honda.

[RED333]

Bicycle with a car ALT on it, as much as "YOU" want to peddle to get as much power as you need.

Get a "ONE" wire ALT, makes good 12 VDC.

Edited December 20, 2013 by RED333

[jughead]

propane or natural gas all the way. dealt with gasoline for several years converted my military gen. to propane and havent looked back.. oh mine is big enough that the small loss of power is not noticable.

[tnhawk]

Although I didn't need it last night, it was good to know my generator was ready to run at the push of a start button.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Old Dad got a full house sized generac propane auto-switching set installed that works great. It was expensive, but not THAT expensive, good easy backup for old feeble folk, and he'll be able to stay active on ham nets during power outages.

My old coleman gen is too big to conveniently start up in "short term" outages, and usually it is hard to know the difference between long and short term emergencies, except when the power stays off longer than you expected. Nothing more frustrating than waiting a few hours, finally dragging out the generator, and having the power come on about the same time you get the gennie hooked up and cranked. And the old coleman is way too loud.

Got a honda inverter gen that at least is quieter, possibly more fuel efficient, and lots less trouble to drag out and set up.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

All depends on what the generator is for, right?  Run the whole house, or just the freezers & a few lights.  Is it just a 1-7-day backup or 1-7-weeks?  Etc etc.  These were the questions I asked myself, and keep asking myself ... and there's no one-sized-fits-all answer.  Everyone needs to start by assessing power needs vs power wants.  Then set up a layered defense ... a generator, to my mind, is only a small part of being prepared to generate necessary energy.  Honda or Generac, propane or gas are great questions, as long as they're followed up with other plans that include long-term how to light, cook & preserve, and heat.  Bottom Line - if you've got a $600 budget, get the generator, but then start budgeting to consider other needs for long-term sustainability.

[zgunbear]

SHTF is not my sole reason. I will use it for camping, some construction, and if there is a power outage short term. 

I really like the advantage of using either propane or gas.

Also has to be a four stroke engine. 

Two strokes and I have never done well with each other.

I have looked into solar just don't have the money to do it the way I want at this time

I know a generator isn't perfect but it is a start

Edited December 22, 2013 by zgunbear

[enfield]

If you want to use it camping, you'll need a quiet, sine-wave generator.  You can't sleep or even hold a conversation near one of the construction generators.  Honda, Yamaha, Champion for example.

[monkeylizard]

You're probably not going to find a quiet inverter generator with 3.5-4Kw for $600. For camping, an inverter is a must. You then have to decide on a louder genset, less power, or paying more money. Watch Craigslist (I use www.searchtempest.com to search that morass) regularly if you want the quiet inverter type in your price range. I've seen Honda EU2000 (2Kw) models for as low as $550-$600, but they don't come up at that price often and they go fast. You could get lucky and have a Honda EU3500 (3.5Kw) come up for a sweet price, but it will stretch you up in price. I've seen them on occasion for around $1000-$1200. I got a fantastic deal on a Honda EU6500 (6.5Kw) on Craigslist about 3 years ago.

 

I don't have experience with the Champion inverters, but I can say from personal experience that Generac inverters are MUCH louder than Honda inverters of the same Kw rating. From all accounts I've read, the Yamaha models are comparable to the Hondas.

 

If you're into DIY, there are multiple ways to modify gensets to make them quieter. Some people add rubber washers to every point where the motor attaches to the frame. Some add a car muffler (got to watch your back pressures on that). Some build semi-enclosures, or add panels to the sides (be careful to vent properly).

Edited December 23, 2013 by monkeylizard

[tnhawk]

Quiet and efficient are good but my fist concern is producing power when I need it.

[seez52]

Also keep in mind the starting load for refrigerators freezers etc. is more than their running load so your genset needs to be able to handle this. I think mine is rated at 7.5Kw and surge at 8.5 or so.

[enfield]

You'll appreciate quiet generators more, 12 hours into your first blackout.  But I know where you're coming from.

[tnhawk]

The guy next door sitting in the dark is bothered by my generator much more than the noise bothers me.  On a previous outage, I offered to let him plug an extension cord into it, but he'd rather curse about the noise than benefit from the electricity.  I can't hear him except when I'm refueling. :rofl:

[daddyo]

Dumb question: How do you determine how much power you need? Is it based on total square feet of your building or something else?

[peejman]

Dumb question: How do you determine how much power you need? Is it based on total square feet of your building or something else?

Just add up the power requirements for whatever you want to run simultaneously.... HVAC is typically the biggest load, plus fridge, freezer, lights, tv, computer, etc.

Or you can walk outside and watch your electric meter and record how much power you're using over several hours and get an idea. For that matter, just look at your electric bill.

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Dumb question: How do you determine how much power you need? Is it based on total square feet of your building or something else?

Not a dumb question.  There's someone here that will be more knowledgeable than me, but here's how I did it.  Find the watt rating of all the appliances that you need/want that could possibly be running at the same time ... lights, fridge, computers, etc.  If you can't easily found the power rating, purchase one of a number of devices that plug in between your outlet & the appliance - this will give you a readout in real-time watt usage.  But I think a Google search of your appliances will give you the power specs.  Pay extra close attention to the appliances that cycle on/off, like fridge & freezer.  You need to include the surge wattage required to start the compressor.  Add all those watts together that might possibly be 'on' simultaneously, and that's the max power you need at any particular moment.  Divide watts by 1000 to get kW.  Then you want a 'factor of safety' to ensure your generator gives all the power you'll potentially need, so round-up your usage figure & add another 10-20% ... then get the gen-set that will meet that demand.  Go through this drill & you won't buy bigger or smaller than you really need.  

 

That's the simple/straightforward approach ... there are other considerations but that's the essence of it.  

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Dumb question: How do you determine how much power you need? Is it based on total square feet of your building or something else?

If you want a permanent or semi permanent backup power setup you might work the answer from two directions. Unless you just say "screw it" and hire an installer to come out and install an automatic system big enough for the whole house, no ifs ands or buts.

You can figure out how much all your house or facility uses, and then after recovering from sticker shock of the big system required, go back and figure how much power that only the "most necessary" stuff requires.

Really pinching pennies, you could decide that you will never use the washing machine the same time that you run the refrigerator, and with most small genny's just forget about electric stove, clothes dryer or full house air conditioning. No way.

Most of the breakers in a house breaker box are 20 amp. You figure watts as volts X amps, so nominal voltage at my house stays around 120 to 122 volts. So the "approx max" I could pull out of one breaker before it trips, would be about 2400 watts, 2.4 KW.

Some of the breakers in your box don't usually carry anywhere near the max rating, mainly added for convenience rather than necessity. So for instance multiplying all the breakers in your box by 2400 watts would be a big overestimate, but on the other hand it would without doubt handle your house. You would count the other value breakers and the 240 volt circuits a little differently of course.

In practice, you might have a breaker that is only connected to the back porch light, and a back porch outlet you hardly ever use. So the thing barely supplies a few watts in practice and you don't have to reserve 2.4 KW to account for that particular breaker.

Any assortment of gadgets you can plug in for instance on an outlet strip plugged into a living room outlet-- Just keep plugging in stuff til the breaker trips-- That is the amount of stuff you can run on a 2.4 KW genny, though it would work the genny real hard. :)

You can go around looking on the labels of all the stuff you want to run, adding up their watt requirements, to get a closer estimate.

Another consideration is that many cheap generators or even some high capacity portable construction generators generate very nasty spiky power that can eat up computers and other sensitive equipment. It might be fine to run a saw on such a genny, but not so good to run a puter on it. The nature of the spiky signal in cheap genny's is such that you can't just plug in a UPS with surge suppression or AVR to protect the puter from the genny. The spikes will eat up the surge suppressors as well, unless you get very expensive and fancy surge suppressors. So it doesn't take long to find out it is cheaper to buy an expensive genny with clean power, than buy enough protection gadgets to run the puter on a cheap genny. Edited December 24, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[tnguy]

You'll need to exercise your generator at least monthly - 15 minutes under load to keep it in good working order and reliable. This is especially important on gasoline generators. Be aware that most of the cheaper generators are unGodly loud and you won't want to run it at night.

During the worst weather or a grid outage you won't be able to buy gasoline, so stock up to your level of comfort, stabilize the gas, and use and replace it regularly.

I owned my first generator over 10 years before I needed it, but it saved me a lot of trouble when I did need it. Now I own two.

If I ever buy another, it'll run on natural gas or propane.

 

A lot of woes can be avoided by only ever using ethanol free gas.

[enfield]

Figure on no a/c, no heat pump, no electric range, maybe no electric space heaters during an outage when you're running a generator.  That means you'll need an alternate source of heat, and an alternate way to cook during an outage, winter or summer.  Fireplace, gas logs, wood stove, kerosene heater (with stored kerosene), etc become necessary for winter heat and to keep your pipes from freezing.  A camping stove and stove-top coffee pot are year-round necessities.  I keep several oil lamps around the house and have a BIG 12V AGM battery charged to use with my 12V lamp and inverters.  The oil lamps and battery cut down on the generator load.  During an outage, my generators power mainly the refrigerators and freezers and the TV in the evenings.  If I had a sump pump, I'd have to add that in.

 

Power outages suck!