The End of The Lead Bullet

[The Legion]

I just read this on Fox News Website.

 

http://www.foxnews.com

Edited December 18, 2013 by washabra

[Raoul]

Dead link

[The Legion]

Try again

[Raoul]

Works fine. Thanks!

[Garufa]

Better link....http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/end-line-for-lead-bullet-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/

 

BTW, I read last week that most bullets are manufactured from recycled lead and the industry does not see this as a huge impact....in the short term (my thought)

 

I don't know who to believe anymore but I'm sure this will start yet another run on ammo.

[Caster]

Not concerned, for myself anyway. Hate it for everyone else.
How many years have I been telling y'all to stock upon lead. *tisk tisk*

[Raoul]

I don't cast, yet,

but even I have a cache.

[Lumber_Jack]

[quote name="Garufa" post="1080853" timestamp="1387407373"]Better link....[url="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/end-line-for-lead-bullet-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/"]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/end-line-for-lead-bullet-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/[/url] BTW, I read last week that most bullets are manufactured from recycled lead and the industry does not see this as a huge impact....in the short term (my thought) I don't know who to believe anymore but I'm sure this will start yet another run on ammo.[/quote] That's what I heard. Lead for bullets isn't sourced from those smelters anyhow. I think it's a case of a news org writing about something without finding the facts. Of course the .Gov switching their ammo would change the whole game regardless.

[nightrunner]

After recently really looking into solid copper projectiles, the only reason not to use them is cost that i see, they actually perform better than lead bullets. Now im about the biggest anti-green person you will find and loathe tree huggers but copper projectiles are the future, IMO, due to their performance and NOT because of the environment. I was unaware that the military will be switching to a copper projectile, this will only drive the cost down.

I wonder, is there enough copper in pennies to melt them down and cast them into bullets or is the alloy all wrong?

[Garufa]

I was unaware that the military will be switching to a copper projectile, this will only drive the cost down.

 

Not likely. 

[bersaguy]

Quote from nightrunner      "I wonder, is there enough copper in pennies to melt them down and cast them into bullets or is the alloy all wrong"?

 

All pennies made before 1982 are 94% copper and 6% zinc which makes the very suitable for copper bullets. Only during WWII did they make steel pennies which are worth more as a collectors item than a bullet. Thing is don't get caught melting pennies cause they belong to Uncle Sam and I think he might frown on folks melting down his money even though he can print more when ever he wants to.................. :rofl: :rofl: :rock:

[KKing]

[quote name="nightrunner" post="1080881" timestamp="1387410390"]I wonder, is there enough copper in pennies to melt them down and cast them into bullets or is the alloy all wrong?[/quote] Hmm, bullets for pennies on the dollar you say? I'm interested

[greenego]

Perhaps all is not lost.

http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

 

[Lumber_Jack]

[quote name="greenego" post="1080916" timestamp="1387413888"]Perhaps all is not lost. [url="http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/"]http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/[/url][/quote] That's the article I read.

[Peace]

[quote name="greenego" post="1080916" timestamp="1387413888"]Perhaps all is not lost. [url="http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/"]http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/[/url][/quote] thank you! There may be things to panic about (like our apparent need to always have a crisis), but our lead supply isn't one of them right now. Edited December 19, 2013 by Peace

[kcevans]

Just like Caster, I have been screaming this for years. I have been preaching the benefits of casting for a long time.

[seez52]

Sierra says most of their lead comes from recycled batteries. I'm guessing it's processed in some way and delivered to them in some standardized format alloy etc.

 

Mostly I've always collected wheel weights for casting, or Linotype back when you could get that. Seems I remember there was some reason why lead from batteries was not recommended for home casting? Anyone remember what the deal was with that? Was it just the acid problem or was there something different about the alloy in batteries that didn't make good bullets?

[Caster]

Just like Caster, I have been screaming this for years. I have been preaching the benefits of casting for a long time.

No one listens.
...until they see you shooting five times as much at the range.

[LngRngShtr]

From CASTBOOLITS :

Why Car Batteries Are Dangerous

The warnings about smelting automotive batteries to recover the lead they contain needs a bit of explanation. Doing so really does have the potential to harm or even kill you and here is why. Maintenance free/low maintenance batteries use calcium metal-doped lead to catalyze the hydrogen gas generated from water electrolysis back into water. That is what makes the batteries low maintenance or maintenance free, you don't need to add water to the cells as often like in the old days. When the battery lead is melted down there is enough sulfuric acid from residual electrolyte trapped in the lead dioxide and lead framework of the battery plates to react with the small amount of calcium metal in the lead alloy. Normally when sulfuric acid (or water) gets in contact with calcium metal it undergoes a rather vigorous reaction that generates hydrogen gas. In and of itself this is no big deal, hydrogen is a simple non-toxic asphyxiant that is also flammable. But the lead alloy used in batteries also contains a bit of antimony and even arsenic to help harden and strengthen the lead to withstand the vibration and general knocking-about batteries have to withstand in order to survive normal automotive use. When hydrogen comes in contact with arsenic and antimony, or compounds of these two elements, the hydrogen reacts to form ammonia analogues called arsine and stibine, AsH3 and SbH3. Both of these are heavy gases and both have the similar characteristic odors of rotting fish. In World War One the Germans experimented with these, along with phosphine, another rotting-fish-smelling gaseous ammonia analogue with formula PH3, as war gases. As such they were highly effective since they are deadly in amounts too small to easily detect. In even smaller amounts that are too small to immediately kill they cause rather painful lung damage that often eventually leads to emphysema and lung cancer.

So, leave smelting car batteries or using lead smelted from them to professional recyclers. Many folks including myself have successfully smelted batteries and lived to tell about it, but the risk is just too great to mess with the stuff.


rl371

[Caster]

Good god y'all!!!!!!!!!!
For the love of god stay away from car batteries!!!

If I could scream at you through the screen I would.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SMELT LEAD FROM A BATTERY!

First off, you'll get little to nothing. Second, should you get a faint whiff of the gases it produces.....you die. Do I really need to say it again?

[TN Volunteer]

"Second, this facility only smelts primary lead or lead ore. This is lead ore that has just been brought out of the earth."

From what I have gathered, the facility only smelts, not makes, bullets.

Been a lot of activity on the web about this topic.

The EPA is turning out to be a PITA and so the facility is shutting down. We all know who to thank for that one.

The plan now is to ship the ore to China ( Eek! ) for smelting and then for it to be shipped back into the US for use. I am wondering if that will drive up bullet costs substantially or because of cheap Chinese labor, keep costs about the same. Who knows as of yet.

[I_Like_Pie]

I think I am stockpiled with a little under 3 cubic feet of lead now....I kid you not that this doesn't look like much but it weighs about as much as my car.

That's a lot of shooting!!!  Read the writing on the wall long ago.

 

 

 

The odd thing I am starting to see is the use of tin or zinc being talked about as an alternative.....heck they will screw you up pretty bad as well if you chew on it all day long.

[TN Volunteer]

Here`s one to follow.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1570277_So__lead_ammo_is_going_out_of_production_.html

I saw another one tonight that had about 6 links or more. If I can find it, I will put it up.

[Spiffy]

Quote from nightrunner      "I wonder, is there enough copper in pennies to melt them down and cast them into bullets or is the alloy all wrong"?

 

All pennies made before 1982 are 94% copper and 6% zinc which makes the very suitable for copper bullets. Only during WWII did they make steel pennies which are worth more as a collectors item than a bullet. Thing is don't get caught melting pennies cause they belong to Uncle Sam and I think he might frown on folks melting down his money even though he can print more when ever he wants to.................. :rofl: :rofl: :rock:

 

No wonder he can take back as much as he wants in "taxes".

[tnguy]

The plan now is to ship the ore to China ( Eek! ) for smelting and then for it to be shipped back into the US for use. I am wondering if that will drive up bullet costs substantially or because of cheap Chinese labor, keep costs about the same. Who knows as of yet.

 

It'll drive the cost up as it will now have to compete with usage in childrens' toys.