Sad. Negligent Discharge kills man in Colombia.

[billyscott]

http://www.wkrn.com/story/24225400/columbia-man-killed-in-kitchen-from-gunshot-upstairs

[DaveS]

WOW...what are the odds? SAFETY at all times folks!!!!!

 

Dave

[hipower]

Check. Double check. Hell...Triple check.  You just can't not do it.

 

But some people just can't not pull the trigger before checking the gun is safe.

 

So sad for the families of these two young men. They will never be the same.

[Guest TresOsos]

Article just said handling, he could have been loading it or unloading it and pointed at the floor.

I bet he thought he was pointing it in a safe direction, just didn't give any thought to the floor

plan below. I live in a multi story house, I see how this could happen even when you think

you are being safe. Really tragic neglegent discharge.

[Slpeod]

Early years in college at the apt place I lived in I was sitting on the couch with the GF and right in front of my feet appeared a hole.  A dumb azz the apt below was sitting on his couch and was jackin with his pistol - pretty much the same story "He didn't know/think it was loaded".  

 

Put a nice hole in his ceiling, my ceiling and into the roofing. Check, recheck then verify it's clear.

[Peace]

Article just said handling, he could have been loading it or unloading it and pointed at the floor.

I bet he thought he was pointing it in a safe direction, just didn't give any thought to the floor

plan below. I live in a multi story house, I see how this could happen even when you think

you are being safe. Really tragic neglegent discharge.

 

From your wording, it seems that you already know this very well, so for those who may be new to firearms who read your post, I will say this: There is no "thinking" you are pointing the gun in a safe direction.  You either are or you aren't, and you must, must, must be sure of it.  "The Floor" is not a safe direction -unless there cannot possibly be anything below or beyond it that you do not mind destroying.  

     Pointing a firearm at the floor of a second story home... where you cannot see the space occupying the floor directly below you - can never be classified - under any circumstances as pointing the firearm in a safe direction.  Rule #4!!!!!!!    You must, must, must eat, breath, and live the 4 Laws around firearms.  We don't "think" we are following a rule.  We take the time and perform the steps to know we are abiding by the 4 laws.  

 

The safety of those who learn from us (actively or passively) depends on how we portray and follow the 4 Laws.  This is not the realm to be "too cool for school".  

 

With that said, we are all human, and we are all capable of making awful mistakes.  My condolences to the families and those involved for this unbelievable loss. 

Edited December 16, 2013 by Peace

[Guest PapaB]

People that think pointing a gun at floors, ceilings or walls is safe need a lesson in construction. Bullets easily pass through those objects, unless they're concrete, in which case they might riccochet. Inside your floors, ceilings and walls you're likely to find electric wires and pipes for water, sewage and gas. None of those things deal with bullets very well. Pointing a gun so that you're not directly endangering someone is not the same as being safe.

[Sam1]

Check. Double check. Hell...Triple check.  You just can't not do it.

 

But some people just can't not pull the trigger before checking the gun is safe.

 

So sad for the families of these two young men. They will never be the same.

 

Lots of things wrong with that guy's ND...  If you need to pull the trigger to disassemble it, there's no reason it should be pointed up.  My guess is that he was just playing around and now someone is dead because of their stupidity.

[TMF]

Lots of things wrong with that guy's ND...  If you need to pull the trigger to disassemble it, there's no reason it should be pointed up.  My guess is that he was just playing around and now someone is dead because of their stupidity.

This happened in the middle of the night. Nothing responsible happens with guns in the middle of the night. Alcohol was a factor.

[Sam1]

He should be strung up behind the jail if alcohol was involved, I got no sympathy for drunks doing stupid things like that.

[GlockSpock]

From your wording, it seems that you already know this very well, so for those who may be new to firearms who read your post, I will say this: There is no "thinking" you are pointing the gun in a safe direction.  You either are or you aren't, and you must, must, must be sure of it.  "The Floor" is not a safe direction -unless there cannot possibly be anything below or beyond it that you do not mind destroying.  
     Pointing a firearm at the floor of a second story home... where you cannot see the space occupying the floor directly below you - can never be classified - under any circumstances as pointing the firearm in a safe direction.  Rule #4!!!!!!!    You must, must, must eat, breath, and live the 4 Laws around firearms.  We don't "think" we are following a rule.  We take the time and perform the steps to know we are abiding by the 4 laws.  
 
The safety of those who learn from us (actively or passively) depends on how we portray and follow the 4 Laws.  This is not the realm to be "too cool for school".  
 
With that said, we are all human, and we are all capable of making awful mistakes.  My condolences to the families and those involved for this unbelievable loss.

Well, you are correct in that pointing a firearm "down" when at a greater than ground floor can hardly be considered "safe" or "correct", however I have contemplated quite often internally about what the correct thing to do in this scenario. My rule of thumb has always been to keep the thumb and his brothers off the trigger at all times and then only point the firearm in the safest direction. If that means pointing it downward when above ground floor, that's your best bet compared to pointing it horizontally at someone or in the room next to you.

Thoughts?

[Peace]

Well, you are correct in that pointing a firearm "down" when at a greater than ground floor can hardly be considered "safe" or "correct", however I have contemplated quite often internally about what the correct thing to do in this scenario. My rule of thumb has always been to keep the thumb and his brothers off the trigger at all times and then only point the firearm in the safest direction. If that means pointing it downward when above ground floor, that's your best bet compared to pointing it horizontally at someone or in the room next to you.

Thoughts?

 

Good discussion often comes from sadness.  With your point about "what to do", I would tend to disagree.  In that scenario, I believe that responsibility means creating a safe backstop.  I don't care if it is 20 phonebooks duct taped together; make it safe.  Occasionally, and often for dissasembly, firearms have to be cleared.  When that is happening, "best bet" does not cut it.  You have to know it is safe.  4 Rules.

[KKing]

I didn't know him, but I did run into him at the gym on occasion when I went regularly. Seemed like a nice guy, was definitely dedicated. Very sad thing. I don't know if there was alcohol involved or not, but I sure hope not.

[RobertNashville]

Good discussion often comes from sadness.  With your point about "what to do", I would tend to disagree.  In that scenario, I believe that responsibility means creating a safe backstop.  I don't care if it is 20 phonebooks duct taped together; make it safe.  Occasionally, and often for dissasembly, firearms have to be cleared.  When that is happening, "best bet" does not cut it.  You have to know it is safe.  4 Rules.

I would submit that depending on specific circumstances, you cannot point a weapon in an absolutely, 100% "safe" direction...in those instances the best you can do is "safest".  For people who live in an apartment for example, I can easily see how the simply is not "safe" direction.

One can usually violate one of the four rules of safe gun handling and be okay...it's even possible to violate two of the rules and be okay but violate three and very bad things can happen...I'm sure there is a lot more involved here than the "safe direction" issue.

[jphillips63]

[quote name="TMF" post="1079721" timestamp="1387204861"]This happened in the middle of the night. Nothing responsible happens with guns in the middle of the night. Alcohol was a factor.[/quote] So just because of time of night this person had been drinking? What basis do you happen to conclude this on? I reckon when I come in from work at night and disarm myself I'm automatically considered I've been drinking due to the hour of night? Wow pretty sad observations from what I gather I sure hope you're never on a jury if ever called upon on such incidents. No one knows how or why this handgun was discharged but sure lots of finger pointing and guessing of why instead of having sympathy for the deceased and family and even for the guy whom accidentally shot his roommate. Yes safety is always needed but not a single one of us knows what happened and too many directly want to place blame on this guy did something wrong or in some cases he was under the influence. sent from RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro

[2.ooohhh]

Well, you are correct in that pointing a firearm "down" when at a greater than ground floor can hardly be considered "safe" or "correct", however I have contemplated quite often internally about what the correct thing to do in this scenario. My rule of thumb has always been to keep the thumb and his brothers off the trigger at all times and then only point the firearm in the safest direction. If that means pointing it downward when above ground floor, that's your best bet compared to pointing it horizontally at someone or in the room next to you.

Thoughts?

It's easy to build a reasonably safe and cheap backstop that is mobile and self contained. I used a 5 gallon bucket filled with compacted rubber mulch.(compacted via vibration from an air hammer while filling) At the bottom of the bucket is a 1/4" plate steel circle the diameter of the bucket of plate steel to keep any rounds from exiting the bottom of the bucket.(none of my test rounds fired from my pistols at point blank even hit the steel) The bucket now has a standard lid on it to keep the rubber smell in(wife wasn't a fan) but it sits in a corner next to my gun safe and anytime I have to pull a trigger for dis-assembly or any other reason the gun muzzle is pointed into the bucket regardless of how many times I've checked that it's empty. It think the total cost of the bullet trap was $25

 

Mulch was this stuff below, the rest should be pretty self explanatory.

[TMF]

So just because of time of night this person had been drinking? What basis do you happen to conclude this on?

Experience.

Don't get so worked up. I could be wrong, I just probably ain't.

[jphillips63]

[quote name="TMF" post="1079786" timestamp="1387215326"]Experience. Don't get so worked up. I could be wrong, I just probably ain't.[/quote] Its called inexcusable profiling based on nothing more than assumptions. Many people work late nights or are up late that doesn't mean any of them are out drinking or doing drugs. sent from RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro

[TMF]

Its called inexcusable profiling based on nothing more than assumptions. Many people work late nights or are up late that doesn't mean any of them are out drinking or doing drugs.

sent from RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro

No, profiling is pretty excusable. It usually works. Sorry that offends you. There is more suggesting alcohol use other than being awake in the middle of the night. Add to that a dead body that isn't supposed to be dead.

ETA: the apartment was shared by two young people (19/24)who were having a party on Saturday night. The shooting occurred around 0100 while the negligent party was showing off his new pistol. If anyone with half a brain or a few years of life experience were to bet on whether there was alcohol involved the bet would be that there was. Take a random poll of young people 18-24 at 1am at a party and tell me how many sober versus drunk kids there are there. I was 18-24 once so I already know the answer. Like I said, profiling works and it exists for a reason. Sorry that it twists your panties. Edited December 16, 2013 by TMF

[jphillips63]

No, profiling is pretty excusable. It usually works. Sorry that offends you. There is more suggesting alcohol use other than being awake in the middle of the night. Add to that a dead body that isn't supposed to be dead.
ETA: the apartment was shared by two young people (19/24)who were having a party on Saturday night. The shooting occurred around 0100 while the negligent party was showing off his new pistol. If anyone with half a brain or a few years of life experience were to bet on whether there was alcohol involved the bet would be that there was. Take a random poll of young people 18-24 at 1am at a party and tell me how many sober versus drunk kids there are there. I was 18-24 once so I already know the answer. Like I said, profiling works and it exists for a reason. Sorry that it twists your panties.

If drinking had been an influence the gentleman would had been arrested for negligent homicide, the story said no arrests were made so let's assume at this point alcohol was not a factor in the accidental death of his roommate.

So if I'm in a bad part of town late night where known drugs are known to be sold and used, does this automatically make me a drug dealer or user although I've never used drugs in my life?

Just because you own firearms does this make you automatically a terrorist?
Get the point? Edited December 16, 2013 by jphillips63

[billyscott]

It's easy to build a reasonably safe and cheap backstop that is mobile and self contained. I used a 5 gallon bucket filled with compacted rubber mulch.(compacted via vibration from an air hammer while filling) At the bottom of the bucket is a 1/4" plate steel circle the diameter of the bucket of plate steel to keep any rounds from exiting the bottom of the bucket.(none of my test rounds fired from my pistols at point blank even hit the steel) The bucket now has a standard lid on it to keep the rubber smell in(wife wasn't a fan) but it sits in a corner next to my gun safe and anytime I have to pull a trigger for dis-assembly or any other reason the gun muzzle is pointed into the bucket regardless of how many times I've checked that it's empty. It think the total cost of the bullet trap was $25

 

Mulch was this stuff below, the rest should be pretty self explanatory.

Good idea. Thanks. I'll be doing that. 

[Hozzie]

I am curious why he wasn't arrested anyway.  I don't really care if he was drunk or not.  Fact is, he is responsible for his actions and the negligence that took the life of another.  Seems to me at a minimum it would be involuntary manslaughter.  Not sure how someone can die in this manner and someone isn't legally responsible.  Accident or not, he should have been arrested.  If a jury of his peers want to let him off, so be it.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Hozzie

[TMF]

If drinking had been an influence the gentleman would had been arrested for negligent homicide, the story said no arrests were made so let's assume at this point alcohol was not a factor in the accidental death of his roommate.
So if I'm in a bad part of town late night where known drugs are known to be sold and used, does this automatically make me a drug dealer or user although I've never used drugs in my life?
Just because you own firearms does this make you automatically a terrorist?
Get the point?

There's more going on here suggesting use of alcohol than simply being awake and handling a firearm. Perhaps he was the sober one of the group? I don't know. I'm just going with law of averages and life experience. Kinda silly to try and compare that to gun owners being terrorists... I mean, consider the numbers. 100 million Americans, give or take, have firearms and only a dozen or so commit acts of terrorism with said firearms each year. Now consider college aged males at a party on Saturday night around midnight; do you really think that only 0.000012% of college aged males are drinking at a Saturday night party?

Fitting a profile doesn't make anyone guilty of anything, it just means they fit the profile. Like I said, he may have been stone cold sober, but odds are he wasn't. Police are investigating. It isn't illegal to handle a firearm in your own home simply because you have been drinking, so I assume that if he was drinking they wouldn't have arrested him based on his account of merely handling a weapon. That's why they have DA's and grand juries.

[TMF]

I am curious why he wasn't arrested anyway.  I don't really care if he was drunk or not.  Fact is, he is responsible for his actions and the negligence that took the life of another.  Seems to me at a minimum it would be involuntary manslaughter.  Not sure how someone can die in this manner and someone isn't legally responsible.  Accident or not, he should have been arrested.  If a jury of his peers want to let him off, so be it.

Because there needs to be evidence that his actions were criminal. I don't think a cop on the ground is going to be able to make that call.

[Peace]

One can usually violate one of the four rules of safe gun handling and be okay...it's even possible to violate two of the rules and be okay but violate three and very bad things can happen...I'm sure there is a lot more involved here than the "safe direction" issue.

 

Holy mother of Hades!  Are you kidding!?

 

Robert, I saw this post earlier but didn't see who wrote it.  I would've never guessed it would be you!  :)  technicalities aside:  The words "usually" and "violate" should never be used to describe how one interacts with the 4 rules.  I am guessing you didn't mean it like it came across.  If you did, please refrain from teaching anything about firearms to anyone until you think differently.

 

Again - don't mean to flame you - Maybe I have a needlessly absolute respect for those 4 rules... maybe I am wrong, and maybe they are not that important... but I doubt it.