Constitutional Amendment Convention Gaining Momentum

[gun sane]

What began as a book by Mark Levin, pointing to a provision for constitutional change in Article V, looks like it's growing some legs. It's a hope and change movement that I hope will change the last hope and change movement.

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/09/gaining-steam-nearly-100-lawmakers-descend-on-mount-vernon-to-talk-convention-of-states/

[Dennis1209]

IMHO. In this day and age, a constitutional convention would scare the pants off of me. Let's not hope for desperate measures that could very well back fire on U.S.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'm going to have to side with the Article V folks. The writer for Heritage seems to be mincing some words. I contribute to

Heritage, but this one issue I think that writer is wrong.

[173rdABN]

I'm going to have to agree with 6.8 here. 

[gun sane]

"We've never done it this way before" or "what'll we do if it gets out of hand" arguments will get us to the same place as expecting the Republicans to turn out for elections.  I'd rather go with whatever constitutional means we have for changing this tyrannical bastardization of our country before we're forced to have Lexington/Concord rallies.  But this quote from The Foundry article offers a ray of sunshine:

 

 

That said, advocating an Article V convention as part of a state-based strategy to press Congress to pass a constitutional amendment is not unreasonable.  Precisely because of the potential chaos of the process, the very threat of an amendments convention will pressure Congress to act rather than risk having one proceed.  That’s what happened in the 1980s with the unsuccessful push for a balanced budget amendment (good example) but also during the progressive era with the successful push for the direct election of senators (bad example).

 

If we can't throw the rascals out, making them uncomfortable is the next best thing.
 

[Chucktshoes]

There are several articles over at Daily Kos of folks wetting their knickers over the thought of those meddling conservatives at an Article V convention foiling their schemes. This is the most recent one. It is worth supporting if only to keep the wailing and gnashing of teeth up over there.

 

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/04/1260066/-Alert-Art-V-Convention-Threat-Grows-Dec-7-2013-Assembly

Edited December 9, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[JayC]

I don't think it would be a good idea...  too many things could go wrong.

[superduty]

I don't think it would be a good idea...  too many things could go wrong.

 

I tend to agree with you.  Pandora's box.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Our present day life is becoming less and less free. Congress and the President pay no attention to the people, more each day.

Less people speak up in opposition to what they say and do "in our names". Even with Obamacare being the "Law of the land",

so sayeth John Boehner, the opposition party, the Republicans are cowering about it. With the federal government's continual

encroachments on our liberties by snooping on us, turning us against each other, not coming to the aid of an embassy, or a

border guard. The assault every year or so on the 2nd Amendment. TARP and the rest of the money. The lack of a budget since

when? Bush's last year. None since.

 

I'm all for it. Levin's ideas are sound. That writer for Heritage is how I used to feel. I think more productive things could happen

this way, if not for the idea that, one of these days we will be so wrapped up in tyranny, we won't be able to fight back against it,

God forbid anyone have the spine to do that, now. Each year this stuff gets worse, instead of better. The writer says there is a

trend pointing at politics swinging back in the other direction. I don't see it. I see about the same amount of spine in that as the

other thing I mentioned needing spine. This is a rogue government already. How much more do you want it to erode?

[Randall53]

I don't think it would be a good idea...  too many things could go wrong.

In today's political climate I'd be afraid it would end in a very bad way.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't think it would be a good idea...  too many things could go wrong.

And we all should know the bad things that could go wrong. What we should also know if we continue cowering and letting Congress

and the President make fools and slaves of us, is that it is up to the people, for the time being, to deal with this, unless you like what

you have, now. I don't like to hear every day how the government can do this or that, or the ATF is committing crimes to entrap, while

at the same time, some tend to worship them and protect them from us. Sorry, but I don't bow down and kiss it like some do. We all know

how long this has been going on, and we all know this won't change overnight, yet, not enough of anyone will get behind and support

ideas like "Beat Lamar", or many of the ideas of the Tea Party that made 2010 a successful election cycle in the eye of tyranny on the

job.

 

It's more damned important to cry on someone's shoulder and make sure the baker gets punished and the gay gets his/her cake than

queering the tyranny, instead. Trouble is, the real coward is the one imposing the tyranny on us. We are letting them write laws that

are in direct violation of the Constitution, and the Supreme Court is bullied into letting it stand on a technicality by a so-called conservative

Chief Justice. My God! How much more does it take? If it gets much worse, those who are still saying "cold, dead hands" will be saying

"more cake, please" or worse, "death is fine with me". Do you folks realize how far our country has fallen? In my lifetime it has gone straight

to Hell.

 

Where is Patrick Henry in our crowd?

Edited December 9, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[Oh Shoot]

Just what will enforce that the Fed will abide by changes to the Constitution any more than they abide by the existing one?

 

It embraces any parts that further its agenda and ignore or subvert the parts that don't.

 

- OS

Edited December 9, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[gun sane]

Judging by the pictures I've seen of the Mt. Vernon assembly, none of the delegates was wearing a wet blanket.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's true, Mac. With the government we have, we need one that can be respected by us, not by other countries. Article V

process serves the government notice of intentions of a change. It doesn't change anything right off, but it shows a deep

demand from the people who put those fools in office. I think Congress would be very worried if this happens. Of course, I

doubt Nero would put his fiddle down until the Marines put him in handcuffs, but one thing at a time.

 

I think it would be a strong enough force to reckon, that at the end of the 2014 elections, Republicans would have both house

and senate, along with two speakers with cojones instead of the pandas in the position. I also think you'd see people like the

lady you think will win, move to St. Tropez and give up American politics because there might be a bounty of that witch's head.

 

All this is moot around here because there are too many cowards already trained to suckle at the government teat, and I'm not

talking about welfare cheats.

[Dennis1209]

Well 6.8 AR. no argument here about your views, as most here are like minded, however...

 

Over time the government has created a large class of people not self reliant, lazy and dependent on the government for a living. Our children have been bombarded with liberal thinking, it takes a village to raise them and government knows best in the public school system., among lots of collective one world thinking.

 

Money, the elites, campaign contributions, big business and lobbyists are in bed together in Washington.

 

The majority of Americans get their information, vote and make opinions from the liberal media and press. I can't think of a single major media outlet that is unbiased and doesn't have an agenda. The days of objective journalism are long gone.

 

I'm all for a change in the right direction and getting our country back on course but... I'm leery of using an instrument that could very well leave dental impressions on my gluteus maximus.

[DaveTN]

If there is a Constitutional convention; the 2nd amendment will be gone.

[gun sane]

Well 6.8 AR. no argument here about your views, as most here are like minded, however...

 

Over time the government has created a large class of people not self reliant, lazy and dependent on the government for a living. Our children have been bombarded with liberal thinking, it takes a village to raise them and government knows best in the public school system., among lots of collective one world thinking.

 

Money, the elites, campaign contributions, big business and lobbyists are in bed together in Washington.

 

The majority of Americans get their information, vote and make opinions from the liberal media and press. I can't think of a single major media outlet that is unbiased and doesn't have an agenda. The days of objective journalism are long gone.

 

I'm all for a change in the right direction and getting our country back on course but... I'm leery of using an instrument that could very well leave dental impressions on my gluteus maximus.

 

With all due respect, there's a lot more at stake than anyone's gluteus maximus.  Millions of Americans have--and are--putting a lot more than that on the line.  I'm no political analyst, but I'm pretty confident that these liberal socialists didn't get to where they are today with a defeatist attitude.  Just what country do you think is going to have pity and send us some backbone?  Who's going to do something about it if the people who have the most to lose don't step up and take some risk with the constitutional provisions we have?  If we don't have strong leaders, we damn well better go find some.  Or do we want to be known as the nation who lost every freedom they have because of free phones and a welfare check?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

So some of you think that there are risks then
do nothing? Every time a good or any suggestion comes around, I understand there will be dissent,
but at what point do we decide to keep our country a constitutional republic? Are we so cynical that nothing can or will work? do we not
owe future generations better than what we have
become? The founders did a great job, but it
requires more to protect and keep our country
great, and we will be letting ourselves down, and
those future generations, if we continue to drop
the ball. I think it's about time we rescued our
country and started on a proactive course, rather
than living for the moment.

[Guest PapaB]

I'm reminded of this quote by Irish philosopher Edmund Burke:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well 6.8 AR. no argument here about your views, as most here are like minded, however...

 

Over time the government has created a large class of people not self reliant, lazy and dependent on the government for a living. Our children have been bombarded with liberal thinking, it takes a village to raise them and government knows best in the public school system., among lots of collective one world thinking.

 

Money, the elites, campaign contributions, big business and lobbyists are in bed together in Washington.

 

The majority of Americans get their information, vote and make opinions from the liberal media and press. I can't think of a single major media outlet that is unbiased and doesn't have an agenda. The days of objective journalism are long gone.

 

I'm all for a change in the right direction and getting our country back on course but... I'm leery of using an instrument that could very well leave dental impressions on my gluteus maximus.

Yeh, I know all that, Dennis. It will take time to undo every bit of it, but it will get undone very rapidly if we continue the course we're

on and in it's place will be a yoke. The yoke of slavery.

 

If people know that, why are they still watching it(media)? Are they waiting for it to turn around so they can feel good about themselves, once

again? What instrument would you rather use to turn it around? Let's see...voting? Nah, it's too ineffective. I'd just rather wait for the war.

Go straight to a Constitutional Convention? Maybe, but that needs a little more planning. Huh, something like what an Article V does.

 

Go look at surveys, Dennis. The American citizen uses heresay and second hand crap for their news. If it was really for the mainstream

media, which it once was, we'd all be in concentration camps by now. Media samples don't reflect any more than those who turn out for

elections, actually much less, I'd say. Newspapers are just about extinct, and they should be. Several channels are pure propaganda

outlets, with no viewership. Not good examples or good excuses.

 

The majority of Americans have no clue who is sitting next to them in their cubicle at work, or at the welfare office, much less what the

gay and the baker think of each other. Very little has changed, in real terms from the founding days to now, except the way things are

done and the way people communicate. In real terms, the average American probably knows about the same amount of what goes on

around him because he pays very little attention, with all the other distractions around.

 

You do realize what that article was about, don't you? It was an intentional distraction to keep people talking about things like this. Things

that would affect those in DC. You think the news is just thrown out there? For those who pay attention, good for you if you worried when

you saw that a baker didn't want to sell a cake to a gay couple. Gee, that is some damned world shaking crisis, isn't it? We all need to go

hug a bear for that couple and let something else important slip by. God knows, it's happened more than once.

 

Blaming things on millionaires and big corporations is straight out of the liberal playbook. It's really funny that millionaires aren't bred, but

created. They come from somewhere, Dennis. That's a nonstarter. Plus, it's easier to blame things on someone else when you hold the

keys to the solutions to the problems around you, and choose to not use them.

 

All I mean to say is we all can sit and say who is at fault, til the cows come home. And it does plenty for the side actively engaged in stripping

us of our liberties. Doesn't do us one bit of good.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Just what will enforce that the Fed will abide by changes to the Constitution any more than they abide by the existing one?

 

It embraces any parts that further its agenda and ignore or subvert the parts that don't.

 

- OS

Well, I guess if "of the people, by the people and for the people" is gone completely by the wayside, and government decides to do

otherwise, you have your answer to that $64k question and nothing would help, but nothing would hurt, either. We would be at the point

to actually do something.

 

No, people embrace those attitudes, not the federal government. Those people need to be taken out of the government. People who

want the style of government to change more to their liking.

[Dennis1209]

Choose your battles wisely.

Sun Tzu

 

 

It seems to me if we can't get the course of this country reversed at the voting poles, a constitution convention would be suicide. Since the Federal Government no longer recognizes the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution as the law of the land, uses a personal letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to a friend as an excuse for a law... Heck, rather than try to cite hundreds of verifiable examples I'll just get to the meat & potato's of it.

 

We're beyond turning this county around at the federal level using the legal established political process, it's going to take much more than that for "Hope and Change". A better strategy would be to take a stand and fight at the city, county and state level. The biggest power Uncle Sam has over a state is with holding federal taxpayer funds for projects if a state does not bend to their will.

[gun sane]

We're beyond turning this county around at the federal level using the legal established political process, it's going to take much more than that for "Hope and Change". A better strategy would be to take a stand and fight at the city, county and state level. The biggest power Uncle Sam has over a state is with holding federal taxpayer funds for projects if a state does not bend to their will.

 

Good idea.  Everybody should pick a place to dig their foxhole.

[tnguy]

It concerns me. The political pressure is simply in the wrong direction at the moment. The people who are supposed to be protecting out interests are too willing to compromise. Just look at the efforts at "comprehensive reform" of things that are being proposed or have been passed. The second amendment would be watered down to the point of unrecognizability, all sorts of entitlements would become "rights". If you want to see what modern politics produces, just look at the European Union constitution, the universal declaration of human rights  or the constitution of any recently formed country. We are being run by lawyers and it shows.

 

If we can't fix this piece by piece, I don't think putting it all on red is going to help.

 

 

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/index_en.htm

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

 

With that said, if it happens, it will be just more of the same. The problem is not with the constitution, it is with the federal (and to a lesser extent the state) political infrastructure. Nothing will change unless we can change the sympathies of the public or things fail completely.

Edited December 10, 2013 by tnguy

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's not the federal government that is against us. The government is only a machine. It is people who are against the way the

machine used to work and they have been fighting it since its inception. Momentum may be swinging back towards liberty, but

that's something I can't see, yet. It is competing ideologies that are the enemy. Just blaming the government is too simplistic.

 

It is a battle between good and evil. Like PapaB said with that quote by Edmund Burke.

 

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

 

When you give up the fight, evil prevails. Evil doesn't exist in inanimate objects, but in man. Identify your enemy better than just

blaming it on the symptoms. Symptoms are good for a physician to use to identify a disease, but it is the disease that is causing

those symptoms. The disease still needs to be dealt with, not just the symptoms. Our disease fighting us is communism. The

symptoms show up in society where malaise and cynicism is the rule of the day among formerly good men. When things that are

actually sins are sugar coated and made to be acceptable, the symptoms get overlooked. Welfare is a sin. I'm not talking about

gays, so don't waste the time, please.

 

If you feel good about yourself by living off the fruits of others, you are sinning according to what our country was founded by. When

you accept a standard that allows "any goes" and forget where you came from you become the enemy. In other words, when you

accept victimhood as an excuse for your life, you are already a slave for others to use as a tool to destroy the rest of us. Those

victims don't wish to live. They just exist for the moment. If you wish to do nothing about this, continue to choose your own poison,

but leave me out of it.

 

Figure out what good and evil means to you. Then decide what needs to happen. That's what I'd put a lot of thought in.