Regarding Obama's slip when he admitted Muslim faith...

[TGO David]

I don't care if he just flubbed or if it was a bona fide Freudian Slip... Obama recently admitted on camera that he is of Muslim faith. Now you may say that it's pretty narrow minded of me to say that I don't care if it was a mistake or not.

Here's why I don't care: Islam allows, even encourages, lying and denying one's faith if it is beneficial to the cause.

I had been told of this many times in the past by a friend who is originally from Nigeria where they have many rabid, extremist Muslims. He said that it was frequently a problem whereby a Muslim would pretend to convert to Christianity to gain access to a group of Christian believers and then turn on them, either exposing them to the militant Muslim groups or attacking and killing them himself.

So, when Obama says he is not really a Muslim but a Christian... how truthful is he being?

I'm not going to turn this into a Bible thumping pro-Christian thing, but I will say that one of Christianity's tenants (by comparison) is the instruction of Jesus when He said that He would deny anyone before the Father that denies Him before men.

[Guest jmac]

video link?

[TGO David]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zQK_EhDhZQ][/ame][ame]

[/ame]

Also see... http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1150540,CST-NWS-faith08.article

Edited September 9, 2008 by TGO David
Longer version of video added

[BryanP]

Meh. When you're saying the same thing over and over you occasionally flub a word here and there. We've all done it.. Not that it really matters.

[Guest jackdog]

yup that's narrow minded for sure. Do you have anything else to offer that he is Muslim.

[TGO David]

yup that's narrow minded for sure. Do you have anything else to offer that he is Muslim.

Do you have anything to offer that he's not?

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpoAVAA1F30&NR=1[/ame]

That is the full video. Around 2:40 is where he says "My Muslim faith" My ASSumption, is that he doesnt really have much faith at all, be it Muslim or Christian.

[TGO David]

I doubt he has much faith of any sort either. He's a con artist, and not even a very good one at that. I am merely presenting this video and the link about lying being encouraged in Islam as food for thought and discussion.

Like I said, I don't care if he flubbed or if it was a unintentional admission of association. The fact remains he said it and the fact remains that Islam allows Muslims to lie about their faith, so... which version of Obama is true?

Frankly, I have no idea and that's what scares me about the people who naively think he's the best thing since JFK.

[strickj]

Everyone lies.Regardless of faith,color,or age.

[TGO David]

Everyone lies.Regardless of faith,color,or age.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I'm glad that's out of the way now, so maybe we can discuss the matter at hand.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I'm glad that's out of the way now, so maybe we can discuss the matter at hand.

[strickj]

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I'm glad that's out of the way now, so maybe we can discuss the matter at hand.

You simply stated that because of his religion,that he is allowed to lie,I simply pointed out his faith really has nothing to do with his lie.

As far as the matter at hand;I think he F`ed up.He was admittedly one time a Muslim.He was most recently of a just as bad faith,to which he renounced.So I dunno,maybe he just likes change!?

[saintsfanbrian]

You lie and say you are a christian to get the christian vote. You lie and say you are muslim to get the muslim vote. If you are christian it wouldn't matter to you what other people think of your faith. That is something between you and God.

On the other hand, if you were muslim and running for a position that has never been held by a non-christian then it would seem lying about your religion would be prudent almost mandatory to rebuke your religion until you ascended in to office.

Do I agree with it? Nope, I don't like it one bit.

[DavidD]

It appears to me that he really was trying to say "John McCain hasn't criticized or accused me of being a Muslim" but that's just how I see it. Please give me a moment to go puke as it appears I'm "taking up" for Obama. Remember, there wasn't a teleprompter to read so it could have been a mistke. Do I care either way? Not really, even though I am a Christian. He is still a liar (like most if not all politicians) and will do or say anything to get elected. I will not vote for him because of one reason only, his politics.

Edited September 9, 2008 by DavidD

[Daniel]

I cant believe religious preference plays any part in electing leaders at all. I guess being of no religious belief would preclude me ever holding public office.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I cant believe religious preference plays any part in electing leaders at all. I guess being of no religious belief would preclude me ever holding public office.

Maybe not at the lower levels, but you'd probably never get elected President. Americans prefer to have a man in office who claims a religion and ignores that religion's rules than one who admits out front that he's not affiliated. But then I think that mirrors the "religious" beliefs of a large chunk of the country. They claim to be Christians or Catholics or what-have-you, and then do whatever they want in their daily life.

I prefer to confess outright that I follow my own code.

[saintsfanbrian]

Maybe not at the lower levels, but you'd probably never get elected President. Americans prefer to have a man in office who claims a religion and ignores that religion's rules than one who admits out front that he's not affiliated. But then I think that mirrors the "religious" beliefs of a large chunk of the country. They claim to be Christians or Catholics or what-have-you, and then do whatever they want in their daily life.

I prefer to confess outright that I follow my own code.

Catholics are Christians -

This country was formed on Judaio Christian Values. Having a leader that does not support said values ruffles the feathers of some.

[Daniel]

Thats the thing. I can have the same morals as supposed christians without any affiliation to a religon or even belief in an omnipotent never seen higher being.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Catholics are Christians -

This country was formed on Judaio Christian Values. Having a leader that does not support said values ruffles the feathers of some.

OK, but I assert that religious affiliation is only loosely tied to one's personal value system. It seems to be a belief of many religious folks that without God to provide guidance, there can be no moral code whatsoever. This is patently false, and there are centuries of extant writings defining ethical codes based on nothing but mortal reason.

Based upon my observation of history, a man's claim to Christianity is a poor indicator of his personal values. Their have been innumerable accounts of folks who, beyond just claiming Christianity, were actually leaders in their religious organization, and proved to be liars, thieves, womanizers, alcoholics, and so forth.

I don't want to be misinterpreted here: I am not, by any means, asserting that every religious person is a two-faced hypocritical scumbag.

What I am asserting is that when it comes to methods for determining a person's value system, the religious label they've chosen is far less informative than a history of their actions in life.

To assert that rejection of Christianity suggests a rejection of Christian values is patently false. I was raised in a strict Christian home, and later I left the church behind. If one were to ask my current religion, I would describe myself as an agnostic, because I don't really care if there's a God or not. It does not inform my daily life.

And yet, despite my rejection of Christianity, I still adhere, by and large, to the values of Christians, even if the reasons for adherence are different. I believe that lying is wrong- not because it's one of the Ten Commandments, but because a society based on deception cannot possibly function effectively. I believe that cheating on one's spouse is wrong- not because God said so, but because it goes back to what I just said about deception and lying. I believe that murder s wrong- not because it was chiseled into a stone tablet 3000 years ago, but because it deprives a fellow human being of his right to life summarily and without cause.

I could go on for some time, but I might as well get into a detailed discussion of ethical thought. The end result of my little essay here is that supporting a politician because he or she claims the same religion as oneself is, IMO, a dangerous precedent. I don't mind that it enters the decision process, but I don't believe that it should be assigned as great a level of import as hisory suggests that it has.

Supposed Christians lie, cheat, and steal. Supposed atheists wholeheartedly support real freedom of religion. And, to echo a point that I bring up a lot, labels are a poor substitute for research and critical thinking.

[saintsfanbrian]

I agree with your points I was just pointing out that, unfortunately, most of America wants the writing on the side of the box regardless of the fact that the contents are 5h1t.

To quote Tommy Boy -

if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

[NuTcAsE]

Does this "slip" not relate to a previous "slip" of his about campaigning in "57 States"??

[Guest mw.]

It's reaching to say this is an admission of him being a muslim. Plenty of reasons to dislike him without a simple misunderstanding.

[dralarms]

Catholics are Christians -

This country was formed on Judaio Christian Values. Having a leader that does not support said values ruffles the feathers of some.

This is not entirley correct. This country was formed on the freedom of religion. So in fact it was formed on the princable of freedom of and from religion.

And yes it irks me for someone to say they are Christians ans then act like they can do or say whatever they want. 1 person in mind is "dog the bounty hunter", he gets up there on tv and prays for their safety and "good fortune" and then while chasing the bad guy's cusses like there ain't no tomorrow. I've always said you can't talk out of both sides of your mouth.

[strickj]

Yeah,this country was not founded for Christians.Someone needs to read up

This is what I think of when it comes to Christians.

[ame]

[/ame][ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfvznrQOx4w][/ame]

[Smith]

So what you guys are saying is, if I state a foundationaly principled belief that can be levied against my actions I am held without exception (perfection) to those values, but if I say i believe in nothing (or undefined sytem) I can do what ever I want and not be a hypocrite?

Sounds to me like people without the measuring stick hit others the hardest with it.

Bak on topic. What a person believes is important because it gives "some" insight to their foundational principles. Muslim vs. Christian is a distinction in values that does make a difference. Not because of religion but because of the principles they are founded in. The fact someone follows closley or loosley those principles is rather irrelavant, because they will tend to default to them in the end. Just my .02