U.S. and 1930s Germany Comparison

[runco]

In the past month, I have heard 2 or 3 multiple separate comparisons of the United States to the early 1930s Germany. However, in all the comparisons, the speaker does not go deep into the explanation. So this morning, I spent some time using google to read commentary, editorials, and other reading materials. To my surprise, what I was expecting like links and comparisons to Obama, Obama Care, Gun rights attacks, freedom attacks, etc, was totally false, and what I am actually starting to see with these readings are common threads that hit "me" and my political view! The comparisons that I am reading is comparing the right wing politics today to the run up of power of the Nazis of the 1920s and 1930s. THIS WAS NOT WHAT I WAS EXPECTING TO FIND! I do consider myself right wing thinking, I certainly vote right wing, and consider myself a republican, not sure if I am Tea Party republican, but nonetheless right wing if not teetering on far right.

 

With that said, what are you hearing about the comparisons of today's United States and 1930s Germany?

Just to get your juices flowing, this article below I found very informative, and is similar to all of the threads that I have read over the past 2 hours.  I am not buying into this comparison, or at least not now.  But hey maybe I am seeing the world through right wing glasses!  The source: http://www.oleantimesherald.com/editorial/article_9668507c-4e06-11e3-9ba9-0019bb2963f4.html

US And 1930s Germany? Take A Look Back at 1920s
Posted: Friday, November 15, 2013 9:59 am

By Kevin Sharbaugh Special to the Olean Times Herald | 0 comments

With all the claims that the Obama administration is emulating the gradual rise to power of the Nazi regime, what we haven’t seen are actual comparisons. With such lack of details you could claim any administration in American history is identical to the early Nazi tenure in power.

Now, of the acts of the Nazi’s gradual rise to power in the 1930s, how many apply? Have religious minorities and “degenerates” been required to wear identifying markers to make it easier for private companies to deny them employment? Have any had their citizenship revoked? Have there been taxpayer-funded media campaigns declaring members of such religious minorities “less then human”?

Where is the government declarations that the disabled are an intolerable threat to the nation’s economy? Where are the privately armed citizen militias that were used to intimidate the masses? Where is the government confiscation of media outlets?

These are actual actions taken by the Nazis in the early 1930s that have seen no actual repetition here in the United States. If you say there are such similarities but can’t cite any actual comparisons, it’s tantamount to admitting that, no, such similarities don’t exist.

But, is there some similarities between Germany in the past and America today? Yes, 1920s Germany.

The Nazis had not yet gained power in government, they were just a political party fighting for the heart of the German people with slogans and promises. These included actively condemning the democratically elected government as being weak-willed and under the thumb of foreign interests. They were frequently critical of the influence of labor unions and promised to free private industry from their tyranny.

Religious and ethnic minorities were accused of endangering Germany’s traditional values by their refusal to assimilate, and were often accused of being involved in actual plots orchestrated by foreign powers. They were loud and proud in their condemnation of the threats posed by homosexuals, Hollywood and leftists.

To that end, they called upon fellow German patriots to take up arms to form citizen militias to protect the people since the government was deemed untrustworthy and unwilling. It was common to see Germans sporting their privately owned firearms at Nazi Party street rallies or showing up at rival party rallies to intimidate those who disagreed with them.

And there was no shortage of the Nazis invoking the memory of Germany’s great leaders and claiming to embody their core values and that they were fighting to uphold their national legacy.

President Obama has been frequently attacked by the right as weak-willed and under the thumb of foreign powers, notable among them has been frequent claims he is a puppet of foreign Islamic governments. The right has been strongly opposed to labor unions and openly refers to their members as “thugs”; a common promise of the right is to limit the power of labor unions to organize so as to free private industry.

There has been no shortage of criticism from the right about the intolerable unwillingness of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Latinos, etc. to assimilate to American culture. Some have openly backed laws outright banning the construction of mosques, claiming that they are not houses of worship but are bases of operation for foreign governments seeking to destroy America.

The right is loud and proud in their opposition to treating homosexuals as fellow Americans deserving of equal rights, often attacking Hollywood and the left as pushing a “gay agenda.”

Privately armed citizens’ militias are cropping up across America, promising to protect the people from the government. Adam Kokesh even openly called for his listeners to make a peaceful yet armed march on Washington, D.C. (fun fact: that’s how Benito Mussolini, Hitler’s role model, came to power in Italy ... a peaceful yet armed march on Rome).

Of course, there is no hesitation by the right to show off how well armed they are at their protests, most recently boldly standing their ground against four unarmed women who wanted to talk about things the right didn’t like. And, of course, there is no shortage of the right invoking the memory of the Founding Fathers in their claim that they are fighting for our nation’s core values.

America far more closely resembles Germany of the 1920s, with armed nationalist party/militias promising to free us from foreign leftist tyranny than Germany of the 1930s, with its mass arrests of critics and passage of laws that strip minorities of their rights as citizens.

[jacob]

I think this article is a way of twisting facts to make the outcry against special treatment for ethnic/religious/social minorities and the criticism toward the president's inability to execute his office to seem to align with the ideology of the Nazi party, to cause a little political influence of it's own....in other words, it's horse shat....

Edited December 7, 2013 by jacob

[jgradyc]

Yes. I'm a ghost writer (writes for others who then publish under their names) and I studied this to write a chapter of a book. The rise of the Nazis was preceded by a complete collapse of the Weimar Republic. (I'm going from memory here so my facts my not be completely accurate.) The Treaty of Versailles placed a huge financial burden on Germany after WWI. The government resorted to printing money, which led to hyperinflation.  This in turn led to massive unemployment, collapse of the German currency, and political unrest. Hilter unsuccessfully attempted to overthrow the government in 1923... the beer hall putsch. He was was jailed and later released. In the 1930s, civil unrest continued to rise. Hilter rose to power, but was basically seen as a nobody. Business leaders and other political powers thought that they could control him, even though some of his retoric was anti-business. 

 

So while there are a few similarities to 1930s Germany and our right wing politics, the reality is that it's way, way different.  The situation in Germany in the 20s and 30s was nothing like it is today. Inflation was so bad that stores would adjust their prices every night. Paper money became worthless. Unemployment was extremely high.  It was much worse than the Great Depression in the United States.  

 

The more valid comparison would be to 1920s Germany where the government irresponsibly continued to print money when they didn't have it. In every case where governments have printed money without regard to their ability to pay the interest on their debts, it has led to hyperinflation. 

 

Our situation today is different in that the US Dollar is the world's currency. If our dollar becomes worthless due to hyperinflation, China's massive US bond holdings become worthless. So does the holdings of Japan and the Saudi princes. That's not to say it couldn't happen here. It could. 

 

Right now, China is very dependent on us because if we don't continue to buy Chinese goods, their economy collapses, which could lead to an attempt to overthrow the government. As long as China's fate is economically tied to ours, the dollar won't collapse. China is attempting to diversify their assets by buying mineral rights all over the world, especially in Africa, but they still need us and will for years to come. Once they no longer need us, they can use the threat of stopping their monthly purchases of billions of dollars of US Treasury bonds to blackmail us. If they stopped suddenly, interest rates would go through the roof, the stock market would collapse, and we could go into a deep recession or even hyperinflation.

 

Wow this is long....  Sorry to ruin your weekend!  :wave:  Probably time to listen to some old Bob Marley songs...

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The use of right wing and left wing is over-used and mostly incorrect. Pre WWII Nazi Germany, when Hitler took over, isn't much of an

example of right winged, but a measure of Utopian desires at its end result. Hitler promised the moon and justice for all. He used the

same tactics as Stalin(peace, prosperity and jobs) to obtain his power, while all along killing his enemies. I don't know what is right winged

about that.

It's argument is similar to Facism and facism. Take the argument and apply to any politician. That's how tha Democrats of the last several

decades have been winning their power over society. We just haven't quite gotten to the Stalin/Hitler killing off of his enemies within.

 

Arguing whether or not something is right-winged or not is akin to a circular firing squad. Unless you put everything in it's proper place,

the argument is all wrong.

 

There are tons of similarities with modern day America to pre-WWII Nazi Germany. Weimar Republic may or may not have been conservative,

but to call it's political body right winged or not doesn't do much for me. They couldn't get much of a hold on their currency when the printing

presses rolled out wheelbarrows of fiat currency. That tells me they weren't conservative at all, much less right winged.

[Mark@Sea]

Simplify.

Fascist/Socialist/Communist (same tune, but the lyrics are a little different) versus freedom/free markets/true capitalism (Not the crony capitalism we have in this country today).

Today socialists are considered left wing.  Somehow people have forgotten that NAZI stood for National Socialist Party.  So why are the right constantly compared to Nazis?

[jacob]

Simplify.

Fascist/Socialist/Communist (same tune, but the lyrics are a little different) versus freedom/free markets/true capitalism (Not the crony capitalism we have in this country today).

Today socialists are considered left wing.  Somehow people have forgotten that NAZI stood for National Socialist Party.  So why are the right constantly compared to Nazis?

because it suits a political talking point the liberals use that the dumbed down masses believe....

[tnguy]

Mark, I ask the same question from time to time. However, when I tried to look into it a little more, I came to the conclusion that the whole left-wing/right-wing thing is a mess with definitions and factors shifting all over the place. The truth as best as I can see it is that by the standards that made the Nazis right wing, both and neither of the Republican and Democrat parties are right-wing currently.

 

The left (incorrectly used term) I mean liberals (oops, another incorrectly used term) I mean socialists (oops, that ones on us) I mean progressives (ugh). OK, the STATISTS tend to like to control language so they use the term "right wing" as it suits them, mostly as a trick to link the conservative/Republican side of things to the Nazis but many of the parts of the definition are owned by their side now.

 

If you dig a little deeper, quite a lot of interesting stuff shows up. Like historical union opposition to black workers, women workers and immigration. Unions have traditionally been quite nationalistic (The BNP in the UK has strong roots in the working class who tend to suffer most from unchecked immigration) and socialistic yet are regarded as being left-wing currently.

 

It's a shell game and we're being played by creative use of the language. You have to look under the covers and see which gears are turning. It's pretty much all red-team/blue-team now anyway.

Edited December 7, 2013 by tnguy

[Guest TNSovereignty]

When taken to their extremes limits, I believe full-bore left is tyranny and full-bore right is anarchy.  The Founders & today's lovers of liberty were/are at varying points to the right of center on this scale.  I think this simplifies the left vs right differentiations, at least it does for me.  

 

So we can compare today's tyrannist/statist with any period of history ... Nimrod, Ceasar, some of the European monarchs, all the way up through Hitler & today's wannabe tyrannists.  Because the worldview of tyranny-minded leaders is all the same, we should expect similar historical results.  They use nationalism simply to stir the masses & propagandize them ... tyrannists admire themselves far, far more than their culture or their people.  When we allow them to achieve power we ultimately see the same results throughout history.  

[tnguy]

Thats the thing tho, historically, the left has meant more liberty and freedom. The Marxist progressives have done a fantastic job of infiltrating the "left". It's like being in Alice's wonderland these days.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

If looking for parallels between modern usa and the rise of hitler, one might put forward "cult of personality" and propaganda. BHO fer sure has the cult of personality among followers, compared to republicans/conservatives/libertarians. Most libertarian candidates barely have detectable personalities, and the most common attitude toward the leaders put forward by republicans or even conservatives among their "followers"-- "Well, admittedly the guy sux, but he doesn't suck as bad as obama." :)

 

All political movements have lies and propaganda, but team obama is so dang good at it. Comparing democrat propaganda versus republican propaganda, is sorta like comparing Apple marketing versus the pitiful Microsoft marketing. The Apple employees and hard-core customers tend to have that fanatic scientologist's gleam in their eyes, compared to the MS folks.

 

There is lots of fanaticism going around nowadays, and fanaticism is greatly in the eye of the beholder, but to my eye obama's goose-strutting step-lock fanatics kinda win the prize. :)

 

Another factor-- Why does Obama need to take over the media, when the vast majority of the media, has never been so slavishly devoted to propagandizing for the State?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Guest 6.8 AR]

He needs to take them over at their weakest orgasmic moment so they won't cry too much. I like your comparisons above, Lester.

Edited December 9, 2013 by 6.8 AR