Anybody here have their FFL out of their home?

[serbu50]

Was thinking of doing some FFL stuff on the side... I have done a lot of research on the process... just curious if anybody has done it... was it really as big of a pain as people want you to think?

[glowdotGlock]

I have been interested too for some time. I'll echo this question.

[Oh Shoot]

Besides whatever else, always seems to come down to city/county business and zoning requirements. As I get it, BATF will want to see a biz license, both city and county if you live inside city limits and both require them. So you might as well look into that first.

 

- OS

Edited December 7, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[CQB Elite]

I think you may have to have a designated room in your home for the FFL. One with separate access to the outside. I know a local guy that has done transfers for me. His shop is set up in his garage with high tech security, etc. That way when BATFE comes by they only have access to his garage and not the entire home.

I was an LEO in Florida and for a period of time I was an investigator with their equivalent to the beverage control commission. People would get a license for a tobacco distributor and run it out of their house. If they submitted a sketch of their licensed premise that included their entire home then we were allowed to search every square inch of the home without a warrant......

[Westwindmike]

I think "Kwik" runs his out of his house in Brentwood. You might scout his setup and see how his works.

[Dane]

I think "Kwik" runs his out of his house in Brentwood. You might scout his setup and see how his works.

Not sure I would use him as a role model...


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[TripleDigitRide]

I think "Kwik" runs his out of his house in Brentwood. You might scout his setup and see how his works.

I think he's closed his business.

[Oh Shoot]

I think he's closed his business.

 

Wow, yeah, that's what his site says, had only said he had suspended it previously. Maybe he's plea bargained under the radar, or BATF just got disgusted and nuked him?

 

- OS

[serbu50]

Skimming through another board... Not even a safe is required... Just "properly stored" ... That's insane I'd have a safe, cameras, and security. Anyway, it can be run out of the house with no mods needed. You are right. I am in the country, so I stand a better chance at getting ok'd

[tnhawk]

Besides whatever else, always seems to come down to city/county business and zoning requirements. As I get it, BATF will want to see a biz license, both city and county if you live inside city limits and both require them. So you might as well look into that first.

 

- OS

I was looking into the process before I returned to working full time.  Meeting the local city and county zoning requirements are the most difficult areas of the process.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

You do need a safe.. or any other lockable  storage.. Its getting harder and harder to get a FFL or a SOT. We know someone who has both and he was former LEO.. and he even said its becoming harder every day to get one.. especially if you are set up in your home. Living in the country has nothing to do with it.. requirements are the same across the board

 

Skimming through another board... Not even a safe is required... Just "properly stored" ... That's insane I'd have a safe, cameras, and security. Anyway, it can be run out of the house with no mods needed. You are right. I am in the country, so I stand a better chance at getting ok'd

[Dolomite_supafly]

You will have to have some modifications to your home to have a FFL/SOT.

 

And it also depends on what you plan on doing. Simple transfers might be the easiest way to get an FFL but if you plan on actually doing any gunsmith work it requires a lot more. Just the simple act of coating firearms requires certain criteria to be met. And if you are within the city limits you might have to find a place that is zoned commercial or even industrial depending on what you actually plan on doing.

[serbu50]

You do need a safe.. or any other lockable  storage.. Its getting harder and harder to get a FFL or a SOT. We know someone who has both and he was former LEO.. and he even said its becoming harder every day to get one.. especially if you are set up in your home. Living in the country has nothing to do with it.. requirements are the same across the board

OK. So you think living in an extremely populated 500 home subdivision with a liberal HOA . That makes all the difference in the world. The HOA goes to the zoning, 300 people pissed that there is going to be a "gun dealer" in their 500 home subdivision..... that is what I was in reference to. I do not live where there is a home owners association to shut me down. I have a safe, I have a dedicated room, a safe, tons of cams, security already. I don't have kids, etc. I have been reading a good bit about this topic recently. When I called them a couple of years ago, they said the interview is as much of them instruction you, judging your real purpose and intent, and making sure you have a good way to secure them.  I already have a business , so it sounds like my next move is to go to zoning and bring my titanium knee pads and beg to death. I do not have a liberal county. I know 2 FFL's in Sewanee TN that say dealing with the liberal Franklin County is a real bitch. Thanks for your input everybody.

[seez52]

You may have to go before the board of zoning appeals to satisfy atf. I was at one of their meetings in wilson county for another matter and a guy was there trying to get them to approve him for a home ffl. In the discussion it became apparent the issue had come up numerous times recently and some of the board members were getting tired of being the "gun dealer police". He was approved 3 to 2.

They sort of decided to look into a standard policy going forward.

[serbu50]

What's the story on this "kwik" guy? Didn't catch that?

[Troutburger]

Keep in mind; They will not issue an ffl for the sole purpose of Internet sales, gunshows, and transfers. Must be retail sales with posted hours.

Also, most distributors will not work with you unless you have a store front. Manufactures will exclude you from stocking dealer programs without a store front.

I've had an ffl for 4 years through my instrumentation business. margins are 5% or less. You can't compete with buds guns and the internet. Toss 9.75% sales tax in there and you can't even sell guns at cost.

I'm happy to share my experiences with it.

[DaveTN]

I would gladly pay the $200 for a 01 FFL, and the “search” issue isn’t even an issue with me. But all I had to do was look at the home business requirements for Murfreesboro and that was the end of it. If you think you can meet the local requirements to start a gun business you should be okay with the ATF. Let us know how it goes.

The other issue is how are you going to maintain retail sales when you will be competing against gun shops?

[Guest Riciticky]

I know a guy in white pine that does.

[serbu50]

I have enough contacts to show " legit business" to have the FFL. It's a hobby. It's fun, and I just need to justify some legitimate business. That's why. I'm not trying to change occupations.

[frankmako]

back in the mid late 70's i got my ffl and did it out of my house.  during that time it was not hard to do.  not many rules to follow.  had to have a business, post store hours, pay state and local taxes, mark all person guns "not for sale", and keep normal atf paperwork.  not much more i had to do.  now fast forward to the mid 90's.  things started to change.  renewal price went up to $300.00 dollars, had to have a business that was zone for a business and/or gun store business.  had to get some papers signed by the a head of my local law enforcement that i was okay to have a gun store and met all the requirements. my house was not zone as a business zone and/or a gun store business.   problem solved, i turned in my ffl.  that all they want to do is to stop the home gun sales.  trying to make it hard to get a ffl and to keep the one you got.  it is another way of gun control.  

[runco]

As a former FFL, this is why I would recommend reading this article for those folks seriously considering a Home FFL, just make a well informed decision:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/this-is-how-the-dhs-seizes-your-guns/

And for the people that don't like to click on links:

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) recently raided one of our readers: a kitchen table FFL dealer who does everything—everything—by the book. He has, however, consistently criticized the ATF for its unconstitutional regulations and long history of extra-legal activities. This is his story. Update to follow, after he consults with his lawyer . . .

First of all, forget about them coming to the door. They’ll intercept you on your way home from the Doctor’s office (for example), then one vehicle will come up behind you and two will block your way in front and turn on the flashing lights. They then jump out with ‘real’ assault rifles, point them at you and order your hands up, and exit the vehicle. You, being a law abiding citizen, comply. At gunpoint, they order you to assume the position against your car, handcuffs you and frisk you, and you’re directed to get into the back seat. Then the lead agent gets into the driver seat and drives your car to your driveway. You sit there with cuffed hands behind you – bleeding.

As multiple vehicles close off the street and announce over a loudspeaker for all your neighbors to remain indoors (and are prohibited from leaving), the lead agent calls your house and directs your wife to come out of the house – and sit in the front seat. She does. Then the Homeland Security Special Tactical Unit, and the county sheriff Swat Team arrive, and drive two armored cars over the curb onto the lawn, as the “Jack Booted Thugs” with machine guns, helmets, boots, camo, etc. enter and search your house.

You see a Homeland Security Helocopter circling overhead. You are asked if you have any explosives (well, several cans of black powder….) and are there any booby traps in the house. They offer to let you read the search warrant, but your hands are cuffed behind your back. The agent in your car reads it very quickly.

After the Jack Booted Thugs are through, teams arrive to search and ransack the house. After about an hour, you are released and NO CHARGES are filed. You are required to stay beyond the perimeter as they set up tables in your yard and begin to paw through and process your worldly possessions.

You finally realize that they’re going to keep an eye on you, but you go to a neighbor to make phone calls – and find a good lawyer, who arrives on site, but is kept out by the agents. The agents search one of your cars and release it to you. Hours later, knowing there is nothing you can do on site, you leave and arrange a motel for the night.

Later, about 9PM (12 hours later), you phone your house and an agent answers, then advises you they’re about to leave. You drive to your house to see four Feds in your front yard, ready to leave. They tell you they don’t know where the house key is (which you gave them), nor where your cat is. They hand you a copy of the search warrant, but fail to provide a copy of the inventory (which they give you two days later).

You examine your house. Your computers are gone along with every extra & old hard drive, all data cds, floppies, thumb drives, compact flash drives, and other SD drives for your camera. But most shocking, is that your entire gun collection, which you spent a lifetime building, is gone.

Antique guns, airguns, non-guns. Virtually everything. One antique shotgun lies broken on the floor. Papers are strewn everywhere. Once they looked at it, and didn’t want it, they just tossed it aside. Piles of paper. The house is trashed – every room. Your clothing has been ransacked. Your wife’s clothing and underwear. You don’t even know what is missing. You look around, feel sick, lock up the house and go to the motel.

You return the next day to try to start to get things back in order, but realize it will take weeks.

Later, you find out that the affidavit which justified the search warrant is sealed – and you can’t even find out why they searched and seized. A few days later, the sworn affidavit is unsealed, and you find out that the agent lied repeatedly, told half-truths, speculated about possible violations, and related his ‘suspicions’ with no basis in fact – and that the search warrant is nothing more than a gigantic fishing expedition to see what they could find . . . Edited December 15, 2013 by Runco

[tnhawk]

 I started the process of obtaining an FFL, but decided not to complete it.  It's probably better that I didn't.  :surrender:

[DaveTN]

As a former FFL, this is why I would recommend reading this article for those folks seriously considering a Home FFL, just make a well informed decision:

Give us a name of who that was. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say his actions and not the fact he had an FFL caused his problems.

[Guest TresOsos]

I had a FFL back in the late 80's and did it out of my house, was not big deal back then.

Then Stockton happened Slick Willy got elected and started the war on Kitchen Table Dealers.

He put over 200,000 yep, 200,000 dealers out of business, it was used as a form of gun control.

Because of stories like the one above I let mine go, don't give the BATF or any LEO  free

reign  to enter your home.

[runco]

Give us a name of who that was. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say his actions and not the fact he had an FFL caused his problems.

I found the story on the web site The Truth About Guns website. The story does not say who it was. Me personally, I was a FFL dealer once, and during the time of the Ruby Ridge event. During my whole business practice, I had a small sense of being bugged or watched. I never was "officially" audited, but I sure was most definitely tested. Me personally, I discourage a home based FFL based upon my experience and other war stories through the years. You open yourself up to tremendous risk. A storefront FFL or somewhere other than your home property is good, but not your home.