Help with tree value

[sigmtnman]

The electric company came through our property and aggressively cleared for the winter.  They cut down 20-30 trees and oodles of limbs which are strewn across my property as though a tornado came through.  What is bad is that they cut down two of my old growth red oaks. One was 21" diameter (measured 3 feet off the ground) and ~80 feet tall.  The other looks to be over 24" diam. and over 80 feet tall, though its hard to tell the height the way it is laying down the hill covered up with other trees.

 

The right of way is 20' on either side of the wire/pole.  I know one of the oaks was outside of the 20'.  They took it out without asking after they laid two pines on it felling them.  The other I need to measure to see where it lays in relation to the ROW.  It looks like it was taken out for the same reason. 

 

The elec. company says it's SOP to just drop the wood and leave it where it lays "in the woods", but this is my property and I'm left with a huge mess that will cost an arm and a leg to clean up or eat up all my weekends forever if I do it myself.

 

We cannot replace those two trees and we realize that, but this is very upsetting and I'm curious how to value them so we can decide how to proceed.

Edited December 6, 2013 by sigmtnman

[Jonnin]

Old growth oak -- you *may* be able to find a guy with a portable saw mill or who will clean the mess in exchange for the wood.  

 

It should be a standing law that one cannot cut a live, healthy tree older than oneself.   People that cut down a 200+ year old oak because it was in the way ....   sigh.

 

Value as in property value / happy woods feeling/ etc is about $100k per year of growth of the tree. 

 

Value in terms of lumber is fairly low due to the logistics of recovery.... its almost worthless to a pro due to only getting 2 trees for a ton of work.  Its of some value to a hobby guy -- free lumber for a weeks work.  

[sigmtnman]

Thanks for the response Jonnin.  Ugh...  Having to even post about this sucks. 

 

I guess I'm looking for a "damages" type value; something to take to the electric company (EC) to seek restitution. 

 

Would it be an arborist that would be able to help me?

[56FordGuy]

Yes, call an arborist. Not that it matters, but I don't think you have "old growth" trees. I took down a 48" diameter oak a few years ago that was roughly 50 years old.

Utility crews routinely clear right of ways and the laws are written to protect them when they do so, even if they go overboard. I sincerely wish you good luck in this endeavor, but it will be a tough process to get anything from them.

[sigmtnman]

Thanks, 56FordGuy.   You could be right, if you mean in the strict sense like virgin. I was using it a bit looser to mean that it was left from at least the last time the land was cleared.  Now, all that said, my understanding from poking around the inner tubes is that diameter has no bearing on age.  The density of the growth varies depending on environment.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yes, call an arborist. Not that it matters, but I don't think you have "old growth" trees. I took down a 48" diameter oak a few years ago that was roughly 50 years old.

Utility crews routinely clear right of ways and the laws are written to protect them when they do so, even if they go overboard. I sincerely wish you good luck in this endeavor, but it will be a tough process to get anything from them.

You sure about that? I'd think a four foot diameter oak would be twice or thrice as old as you said. That's a rare oak, isn't it?

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Would entirely depend on the age. A 30 year old oak from a nursery could cost well in excess of 10k. Something older much more. Then you have the care cost until it is established and the transportation fees. If between 30 and 50 I'd suggest a starting estimate of 15-20k.

These guys should be able to put you in touch with someone that can get you a more accurate estimate.

http://www.isa-arbor.com/

[56FordGuy]

[quote name="6.8 AR" post="1074313" timestamp="1386353883"] You sure about that? I'd think a four foot diameter oak would be twice or thrice as old as you said. That's a rare oak, isn't it?[/quote] On second thought, maybe it was 38". I remember a picture of a splitting maul laid across it and not reaching the edge, but my largest saw would've had a 20" bar. Edited December 6, 2013 by 56FordGuy

[sigmtnman]

Would entirely depend on the age. A 30 year old oak from a nursery could cost well in excess of 10k. Something older much more. Then you have the care cost until it is established and the transportation fees. If between 30 and 50 I'd suggest a starting estimate of 15-20k.

These guys should be able to put you in touch with someone that can get you a more accurate estimate.

http://www.isa-arbor.com/

 

 

Dang, I didn't know you could buy a 30year old tree from a nursery.   Hmm for that kind of dough, I need to go into the tree nursery business.  :)

 

I'm still considering charging for all the o2 my trees make.  :D

Edited December 6, 2013 by sigmtnman

[sigmtnman]

Ok. I just went and counted the rings on the 21" tree and it looks to be 45-50 years old.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

On second thought, maybe it was 38". I remember a picture of a splitting maul laid across it and not reaching the edge, but my largest saw would've had a 20" bar.

Man, that's still a big one. :D Where you live there are a bunch of monsters. My brother has a couple huge ones off Douglass Lane.

[peejman]

I'm sure the laws are written to protect the utility and they ROW, but I'd still do my homework and read all I could find on the topic.  While they do have ROW, simply doing maintenance work shouldn't devalue your property.  Before/after photos might go a long way toward illustrating your point.

[Lumber_Jack]

Well you can blame this one on the .GOV,  Utilities companies are now held resopnsible for down powerlines.  They can be fined "by the day" for any disruption in service regardless of reason.  So any vegetation that could possibly fall and distrupt transmission are being cut down or trimmed back. 

 

Red Oaks are a very short lived tree 90-150 years at most.  20-24" trees at breast height (4.5' above highest ground level) are definately good size trees, but not uncommon. 

 

Value depends on how much clear wood is in the tree, i.e. how may 16 foot sections without signifiant limbs.  Chances are two trees, as far as timber value, wouldnt be worth more than $200 and thats being generous.  Now their intrinsic value can be infinite but there is no way to quantify that. 

 

We often do damage appraislals and the land owners are always disappointed when they find out how much the timber isn't worth, and then they have to pay our fee for the work which is $65/hr.  We had a client call that had 15acres clear cut, intentionally, by the neighbor and the total value of timber was estimated at $10,000 and that was over 150 trees.   No way $10,000 would replace their timber as far as asthetics and intrinsic qualities, but thats all there is to go by.  Its a raw deal anyway you shake it

Edited December 6, 2013 by Lumber_Jack

[Lumber_Jack]

post pics of the area, trees, stumps etc.  Maybe I can offer more of an opinon.  try to show distance from powerline.  actually measure from centerline to tree if you can

[sigmtnman]

I'm sure the laws are written to protect the utility and they ROW, but I'd still do my homework and read all I could find on the topic.  While they do have ROW, simply doing maintenance work shouldn't devalue your property.  Before/after photos might go a long way toward illustrating your point.

 

Homework, yeah! :(  Seriously though, it was a shocker to go for a walk the following Saturday and find it all.  Unfortunately, I don't think we have pics from before.

[sigmtnman]

Well you can blame this one on the .GOV,  Utilities companies are now held resopnsible for down powerlines.  They can be fined "by the day" for any disruption in service regardless of reason.  So any vegetation that could possibly fall and distrupt transmission are being cut down or trimmed back. 

 

Red Oaks are a very short lived tree 90-150 years at most.  20-24" trees at breast height (4.5' above highest ground level) are definately good size trees, but not uncommon. 

 

Value depends on how much clear wood is in the tree, i.e. how may 16 foot sections without signifiant limbs.  Chances are two trees, as far as timber value, wouldnt be worth more than $200 and thats being generous.  Now their intrinsic value can be infinite but there is no way to quantify that. 

 

We often do damage appraislals and the land owners are always disappointed when they find out how much the timber isn't worth, and then they have to pay our fee for the work which is $65/hr.  We had a client call that had 15acres clear cut, intentionally, by the neighbor and the total value of timber was estimated at $10,000 and that was over 150 trees.   No way $10,000 would replace their timber as far as asthetics and intrinsic qualities, but thats all there is to go by.  Its a raw deal anyway you shake it

 

As much as I'd love to blame the .gov, this looked more to be laziness or ineptitude.  In the case of the 21" tree, they cut it down after they laid two loblolly (bowater) pines over on it.  It was a solid 8' farther away from the pines in the middle of other trees.

 

Yeah, I didn't figure the "value" would be too great on a harvested value...  I could not imagine that clients grief you mention.

 

I'll see about getting pics and more measurements tomorrow.