Cast Boolits and Coffee grounds?

[z0mbies fear me]

To start off with I'm new to loading cast boolits. I have been loading jacketed bullets for a few years though.
I'm loading 200 grain F.N. CBA hard cast 44 Cal. I'm using IMR SR-4756. My load data says 7 grains is the max load. After looking at a 44 magnum casing with 6.3 grains in it there is a LOT of empty case.

Then I remembered about a year ago I met some older guys at Cherokee rod and gun club that were shooting cast 45 long colt rounds. After they had shot a few rounds I started to smell coffee. I went over and asked them about it and one of the men told me that they used dried coffee grounds on top of their powder loads to fill the case and to keep the powder in contact with the primer.

As I think back on this it kinda makes sense to me now.

Anyone ever heard of people doing this or anyone do it themselves?

[Garufa]

Filler is often used (by reloaders) when cases are not or do not seem full enough, depending on the situation.

 

Many folks use corn meal in cap 'n ball pistols to fill the chamber up, as an example.

[z0mbies fear me]

Thanks Garufa. I just wanted to make sure before I tried anything like that.

My first six cast boolits loaded!

[Westwindmike]

I'd be careful of using any kind of filler if not called for in the "recipe". Maybe someone else will chime in on this. I used corn meal in 45-70 loads one time but found it was really unnecessary. 

[Garufa]

I'd be careful of using any kind of filler if not called for in the "recipe". Maybe someone else will chime in on this. I used corn meal in 45-70 loads one time but found it was really unnecessary. 

 

An excellent point.  I first came across the filler talk when studying 45-70 loads and just didn't see the point myself.  Many peple do but it's one of those things you should really try for yourself.  Those old cases hold a lot of air when loaded but primers also make a massive spark in there to set off the powder.

[Caster]

Typically a filler is used on cases a lot larger. I shoot a LOT of Unique in .308 and I've never had ignition issues. I've even shot 3.0g of bullseye for some fun bunny fart loads. Never needed a filler. I've even tipped the rifle forward before firing a 10.0g charge of Unique and didn't see any difference in ignition or grouping. There WAS a difference with the bullseye load but that IS a 308 case with only 3 grains of powder. Lol.

The most common filler is Dacron. A small tuft in the case to hold the powder in place. Remember too, filler with smokeless ain't the same as filler with black powder. A filler with smokeless can and will increase pressures as it essentially reduces case capacity.
You can't have airspace with back powder (very bad) so the way to reduce the load is to use a filler.
We're the old guys you remember using black powder loads?

Do what you like but I don't really see a need for a filler with the load you are using. I dont load 44 but i do load 45 colt and one of my favorite powders is AA Nitro 100. Charge weights are similar to your IMR powder. I've had nothing but good results from it.

Just be safe.

[z0mbies fear me]

I loaded the first six with powder only. I don't drink coffee so no coffee grounds lying around. I figured I'd try them first to see if the filler was needed or not. I was more or less asking as a forethought just in case these rounds didn't function properly. When it comes to reloading I always would rather ask people with more knowledge on the subject than just trying something. I really appreciate the comments and concern. That's what I like about this place. Everyone looks out for each other.

[RED333]

I use Titegroup in all my pistol rounds, 25 ACP "less that 1 gran", 38, 40, 44, and 45 Colt, there is a LOT of space

left in the 44 and 45 cases, never had a problem.

Caster is right, ya dont want any space for BP to play with.

That is where a filler is used.

[Will H]

Typically a filler is used on cases a lot larger. I shoot a LOT of Unique in .308 and I've never had ignition issues. I've even shot 3.0g of bullseye for some fun bunny fart loads. Never needed a filler. I've even tipped the rifle forward before firing a 10.0g charge of Unique and didn't see any difference in ignition or grouping. There WAS a difference with the bullseye load but that IS a 308 case with only 3 grains of powder. Lol.

 

Out of curiosity what do you usually load with Unique in 308?  I have been looking to do the same thing, but I am finding a lot of conflicting load data.  i was looking at loading these

 

http://www.falconbullets.com/30_CAL_165_grain_round_nose_flat_point_p/fbc-30-cal-165rnfp.htm

 

starting at 12 grains of Unique and going from there.

[Caster]

Out of curiosity what do you usually load with Unique in 308?  I have been looking to do the same thing, but I am finding a lot of conflicting load data.  i was looking at loading these
 
http://www.falconbullets.com/30_CAL_165_grain_round_nose_flat_point_p/fbc-30-cal-165rnfp.htm
 
starting at 12 grains of Unique and going from there.

Ohh you're openin' up a can'o worms!

One of my current favorites is an RCBS mold I have. It was a 30-180-SP that dropped a nice looking boolit but they sucked, wouldn't shoot fer sheet in my rifle. I set the mold blocks up in my drill press, run a indicator across it to make sure it was in there square and then I used a press fit 5/16 reamer (.3115) to carefully remove the gas check shank. The boolits fall a hair over .312 with a faint line from the cut. Run them through a .311 sizer and they look perfect.
Seated to lightly engrave on the rifling, over 8.0g of Unique. I fired 20 rounds at 25 yards inside a one inch circle.
A 12 o'clock hold will bust clay targets at 100 yards until you get bored with it.

Best part, plain base means even cheaper. I usually load 50 for a range trip; cost around $4.50-5.00.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Just asking a question-- The dacron sounds ok, but if using some kind of powder filler, then if the round gets shook up a good bit, wouldn't there be significant risk of the powder getting too "diluted" into the filler, causing ignition to be iffy or at least very inconsistent?

I've read that some "almost empty" loads of fast burning powder in a big case, one can notice velocity differences depending on whether one is shooting "uphill" with the powder piled up to the back, versus shooting "downhill" with the powder piled up toward the front. But I don't know whether it would be an improvement to have an unpredictably diluted mix of powder and filler? Edited December 5, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Patton]

How does this not raise the psi? Also, if I shoot an open case with a live primer in it at night there is enough ignition for some to be seen coming Ou the muzzle, how would there be enough space in any case?

[z0mbies fear me]

How does this not raise the psi?

This is what I was concerned with and one of the reasons for the question.

Just asking a question-- The dacron sounds ok, but if using some kind of powder filler, then if the round gets shook up a good bit, wouldn't there be significant risk of the powder getting too "diluted" into the filler, causing ignition to be iffy or at least very inconsistent?
I've read that some "almost empty" loads of fast burning powder in a big case, one can notice velocity differences depending on whether one is shooting "uphill" with the powder piled up to the back, versus shooting "downhill" with the powder piled up toward the front. But I don't know whether it would be an improvement to have an unpredictably diluted mix of powder and filler?

This wouldn't really be a problem for the "range loads" I was originally asking about as they would be loaded powder then filler then bullet, put in one of my cases and then shot at the range. Not much chance for them to be shook. But that is a valid question for others looking into using filler.

I was just curious about the use of filler. I am going to try to get a chance to shoot the "powder only" loads pictured above this weekend and see how they function.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

This wouldn't really be a problem for the "range loads" I was originally asking about as they would be loaded powder then filler then bullet, put in one of my cases and then shot at the range. Not much chance for them to be shook. But that is a valid question for others looking into using filler.

I was just curious about the use of filler. I am going to try to get a chance to shoot the "powder only" loads pictured above this weekend and see how they function.

 

In years past I would talk online with an old retired policeman who had been reloading since dirt, shooting lots of .357 and .44 mag. He was a big Elmer Keith devotee. That man was the one who asserted that "nearly empty" pistol cases can have noticeably different velocity and recoil depending on whether one shoots uphill or downhill. He lived out west and would just drive out in the desert to shoot. So he may have been doing more "non horizontal" plinking than a fella who only shoots at the range. Or maybe he was wrong about his assertion, dunno.

 

He was a fan of IMR Trail Boss for plinking rounds. Said you could just about fill up a case and not get in too much trouble.

[GoneBallistic]

This may not be an issue here but a lot of organic substances (maybe coffee, I don't know) are flammable. Not sure if that little bit is enough to cause pressure issues, but coupled with the reduction in case capacity caused by the filler, might be enough to raise your pressure on max loads. Someone with more knowledge please chime in here. Maybe totally irrelevant, but I'd hate to see anyone get hurt.