New AR trigger

[Dustbuster]

I'd spend 500 to learn fast trigger technique from Jerry Miculek before spending it on a single ammo munching trigger....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 of course it ate my spelling.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I am going to spend some time tomorrow trying to see how fast I actually can shoot. I think I have an app that can give me a rate of fire.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I video'd my son dumping a mag of 6.8. The video was 5 seconds long, of which firing time worked out to around 3.2 or 3.3 seconds,

with a Slidefire stock. That's somewhere around 500 or better/minute, isn't it?

 

Just like any other scheme to mimic automatic fire, if it is legal, and it works, that's really all that matters, isn't it? With only experience

of firing David's Mac and an Uzi years ago, I don't have enough experience to judge it with, but I would think any machine gun firing

at that kind of rate without suitable training wouldn't have a lot of benefit to the user. After a lot of practice, probably a different story.

My son did hold the 6.8 Slidefire on target quite well. He's a big boy and a natural very good shooter.

 

I need a flamethrower, myself.

[tnguy]

Jeff Cooper quote appropriate I think.

 

 

I suppose nothing can be done about the erroneous assumption that hand held fully automatic fire is somehow more efficient than aimed fire. As I used to demonstrate, when I had a teaching job, quick semi-automatic fire is far more likely to produce results than bursts. Thus the preoccupation of the Feds with the idea that is it somehow an offense against God and man to convert a semi-automatic weapon to a fully automatic capacity is simply a manifestation of ignorance. If a man is shooting at me, I would much prefer that he were on full auto than carefully holding and squeezing. The automatic option is the greatest encourager of the spray-and-pray technique, which I have long done my best to discourage.

[whitewolf001]

Jeff Cooper quote appropriate I think.

 

It's not so much as, "it's any more or less effective", as much as it's something we should be allowed to have to begin with so the industry tries sneaky ways to tell the ATF to go insert its own head into its bottom. After several talks and teachings with friends who have served, the only thing a full auto is needed for is suppression fire OR to relieve some stress at the range. ;)

Edited January 16, 2014 by whitewolf001

[tnguy]

Oh, for sure.

[Johnny Rotten]

After several talks and teachings with friends who have served, the only thing a full auto is needed for is suppression fire OR to relieve some stress at the range. ;)

AND CHICKS DIG IT...

[whitewolf001]

AND CHICKS DIG IT...

Why whatever do you mean...

http://youtu.be/OQnU1t7UzgM?t=2m36s

[JohnC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmBZSRerZt4

[JohnC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0d_XaWpEvc

[JohnC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO_1lnyLT_s

[JohnC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06l6ED6JMkU

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, those three videos make it look attractive. They look like they had some control over it.

 

It's not so much as, "it's any more or less effective", as much as it's something we should be allowed to have to begin with so the industry tries sneaky ways to tell the ATF to go insert its own head into its bottom. After several talks and teachings with friends who have served, the only thing a full auto is needed for is suppression fire OR to relieve some stress at the range. ;)

Very good!

[DangerDanJD]

Quick update for anyone else that may have preordered. I have received some contradictory information from Tac-Con regarding shipping of my pre-order.

 

When I preordered on Dec. 1, 2013, the Tac-Con website listed shipping to begin late 2013. I got an email on Jan 29, 2014 saying my Order was ready to be shipped. My credit charged was charged on Jan 31. I then got another email contradicting the first email and stating that I would be notified a couple of weeks prior to my order shipping. My original "Invoice No" was 829. The "Order No" referenced the emails from a week ago was 785. I sent out am email this morning regarding the inconsistent shipping times from the two emails and got an auto reply stating: 

 

"We appreciate your patience. Due to the demand, we are manufacturing the triggers as quickly as possible without sacrificing quality. We are sending the trigger orders out in order number sequence. Note: When an order is placed, your credit/debit card company authorizes the dollar amount and then puts it into a pending status. After a few days, the pending status is removed from your banking view, however the funds are not charged. Just prior to your product shipping, you will receive an email to log into your Tac-Con account and complete payment." This email referenced in the last line is the email I received Jan. 29. 

 

A couple posters on ARF.com with significantly higher order numbers then I have received their triggers so the part about "Sending the trigger orders out in order number sequence" appears to be false. Additionally, the part about the order shipping when payment is processed appears to be false. 

 

I have mixed feelings about the functionality of the trigger. I have seen a couple favorable reviews and some unfavorable.  I guess I would say I am still skeptically optimistic about the trigger itself. That said, if I don't hear back from Tac-Con or get a tracking number within the next week or so, I will probably cancel. 

[JohnC]

This review was the one that got me to cancel my order. Not taking a chance for $500.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcyoJwKm5l8

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/627922_Tactical_Fire_Control.html&page=67#i6343340

[TripleDigitRide]

This review was the one that got me to cancel my order. Not taking a chance for $500.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcyoJwKm5l8

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/627922_Tactical_Fire_Control.html&page=67#i6343340

I suspect 99% of the "operators" blowing $500 on this trigger with see the same results. Pure hype.

[Luke E.]

This review was the one that got me to cancel my order. Not taking a chance for $500.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcyoJwKm5l8

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/627922_Tactical_Fire_Control.html&page=67#i6343340

 

 This is the BEST review that I have seen on this trigger group so far! I'm not saying this because I wanted it to be a flop and in all honesty I really was hoping that it would be everything they hyped it up to be because I would likely have waited for the price to come down or found one used to purchase. This guy didn't seem like he was trying to prove it to be a hero nor trying to prove it a gimmick but rather he gave it every opportunity to reveal itself. I'm glad you came across this in time to cancel your order :up: . I think the fact that he was able to fire much quicker in it's semi mode than in it's "auto" mode speaks volumes as to whether or not this has been a bunch of hype or a good product. 

[Luke E.]

I suspect 99% of the "operators" blowing $500 on this trigger with see the same results. Pure hype.

 

I suspect you are 100% correct

[JohnC]

I think the fact that he was able to fire much quicker in it's semi mode than in it's "auto" mode speaks volumes as to whether or not this has been a bunch of hype or a good product.

Agree. When I heard that and seen a Timney trigger fired faster in a longer burst, I knew I had to cancel my order. :up:

[Luke E.]

Agree. When I heard that and seen a Timney trigger fired faster in a longer burst, I knew I had to cancel my order. :up:

 

 I have run a Timney like that and they are really nice triggers and have a fair price tag but since you were in for the $500 trigger you may want to take a good look at the Geissele SG3 3-gun trigger. I've been interested in one for my 5.56 AR  so have done a fair bit of reading as well as video watching and man it seems to be a really sweet trigger. It seemed very quick in all the videos that I saw but another TGO member (sigbrown) built a top of the line rifle a short while back and used the SG3 trigger and also posted some videos of him and some of his family shooting it and sigbrown really made it look pretty fast. I'm sold, whenever I get to the point of upgrading the trigger in that rifle, the SG3 is what it will be getting.

[DangerDanJD]

A couple more videos have been posted the past couple of days by folks with the trigger. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/57txgokdz9pgp4i/IMG_1279.MOV

 

http://www.use.com/2014_02_06_1_f2320874d4aa5e178bd1

 

And here is a Geissele promo video with their SD3G trigger:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eauD4tvk4MY#t=76

 

And finally, the original Tac-con promo video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQtCTUq4Y_I

 

It certainly looks like the Tac-Con and Geissele can be run to have similar rates of fire, neither of which seems to be on par with an actual auto.  

Edited February 7, 2014 by DangerDanJD

[DangerDanJD]

Another pretty good review with lots of shooting was posted. After seeing this most recent video and after getting a couple contradictory emails from Tac-Con regarding when my order would shipped, I went ahead and cancelled. When the promotions and videos for this trigger were released in late 2013, I believed that because of the mechanical reset on the trigger, applying constant pressure on the trigger would result in multiple rounds down range, simulating or mimicking full auto fire. That does not appear to be the case and the trigger seems to function much like any other.

 

I chose to cancel for a number of reasons. First, I have received multiple emails from Tac-Con saying my trigger would ship by a certain date. None of these dates have been met. Second, many reviewers have stated that they are able to generate a higher rate of fire with a quality trigger from Geissele and the like. Third and even more concerning is the fact that I have seen multiple reviews complaining of multiple failures to fire. I have yet to see a non-industry reviewer achieve a high rate of fire while keeping on target. Finally, a number of these triggers are coming up for sale on forum classifieds for less then the price I was locked into. 

 

Had it not been for the issues with failures to fire, I would have stuck with it and given this trigger a try, but that was really the deal breaker for me. Perhaps they will get that issue sorted out in the future. For now, I'm purchasing a Geissele for about $200 less. 

 

EDIT: I will note that within ten minutes of canceling, I received an email confirming the cancellation and my refund and apologizing for the delays. 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAvebGC33j4

Edited February 14, 2014 by DangerDanJD

[cj0e]

From Military Arms Channel: looks like an honest review

 

[media='560x315']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zCMZSLZwBo&feature=youtu.be[/media]

 

 

EDIT: I'd embed, but apparently I can't figure out how.

 

edit again!: got it.

Edited February 17, 2014 by cj0e

[JohnC]

Still not impressed.

I think this trigger needs a bit more refinement to be worth $495. :up:

Still glad I canceled my pre-order. Edited February 17, 2014 by JohnC

[whitewolf001]

Yep, I'll be going with a Geissele trigger I do believe. According to my buds, I can apparently fire as fast one their bump stocks, this was done with a mil-spec trigger though they could be exaggerating that as I have no idea to be honest(It did go to my head a little, heh heh. :D ). If I put that competition trigger in there, I think it's gonna be naughty.  :dirty: