Para P12

[Guest Southern Christian Armed]

I picked up a used para p12 today with 7 mags at a good price. Ive never been a big 1911 fan but I like the double stack capacity. Does anyone have any reviews or thoughts on the p12? Any improvements? It is bone stock except Hogue grips. Are they reliable guns? Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[eRay]

You may have a good one. I bought two brand new stainless P12's about 10 years ago. I thought it was a great platform. Unfortunately, I could not get either one of mine to run. Never had one since.

[Mykltn]

I had a para p12 a few years ago. I put 400 rounds of mixed ammo thought it and it failed at least once on every mag full. I loved the concept but hated that I couldn't trust it. I eventually sold it and never looked back.

[Guest Southern Christian Armed]

Dang guys, your crushing my dreams here. I just went outside and ran another mag of mixed hollows brass and ball and a mag of steel cased wolf thru it flawless. Maybe I just wanna be a believer like yall.

[Guest Southern Christian Armed]

Awwww. Guess im back to polymer kahrs, glocks, and Taurus......

[ncomarc]

Dang guys, your crushing my dreams here. I just went outside and ran another mag of mixed hollows brass and ball and a mag of steel cased wolf thru it flawless. Maybe I just wanna be a believer like yall.

I got the P13-45 - not sure if the internals are the same though, anyways I sent it back to Para-ORD and they did a polish job on the ramp and magazine exchange on the mags I marked as bad. When I got it back I did a polish on the internals using this site, YouTube and Google for reference. I then took it to the range every time I went and ran each of the three mags twice - roughly 1400rnds without cleaning and no issues. I now pack that baby when I go hunting and as a covered OWB during winter. I will be running a could hundred rounds I bought off a member here soon, just to get my muscle memory of the weapon back. Should you have to do that to a weapon? No, but if you like the platform and got time then why not? Also call Para and send the magazines back - they'll do an inspection and tell you if your running actual factory mags or knock-offs. As a side note, I don't regret the extra time and cash spent on the weapon to get it reliable and satisfy my peace of mind.

[nightrunner]

It seems to be hit or miss with older Paras, good guns if you get one that works.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

You might do your own review. You might find out you have a flawless gun.

[Mykltn]

Dang guys, your crushing my dreams here. I just went outside and ran another mag of mixed hollows brass and ball and a mag of steel cased wolf thru it flawless. Maybe I just wanna be a believer like yall.

Wish mine ran flawless. I'd have kept it.

[AMSting]

I don't get it.  You have a gun that works flawless, and you're getting rid of it because someone else said their gun didn't?  I'd trade you if I wasn't at the other end of the state.

[hipower]

A friend of mine bought a Para several years ago. He raved about it for weeks. Then we went out to G&L in Greenbriar for a little session with it and several other guns.

Since Mark was so hyped up on the Para, we all stood back and watched him blaze away for several mags.

He turned to us and disgustedly said it was an inaccurate pos, and made several more unkind remarks about it. He had rounds all over a standard man-sized target, saying the sights were off on it.

I asked to try it, inserted a mag, and emptied it.

Shooting at 10 yards, first time with a fat, double-stack 45, and I had several 10 ring and X hits; with an overall grouping of about 3.5 inches.

I handed it back to him and said I don't think it's the sights.

Nothing more was said about it.

The moral of the story...try it out first. Paras are a little different from the standard 1911 and might take a little getting used to.

But find out for yourself. Not everyone likes the same guns.

[Guest Southern Christian Armed]

Im gonna give the para some time. I am now through three full mags of mixed steel case and hollows and not a problem yet. I DID notice an issue tho, not the gun. Two of my seven mags both feed the bullet straight into the bottom of the feed ramp when hand cycled). After some time and deliberation I find when loading and especially unloading these two mags that the bullets just hang in limbo and don't "snap" to the top of the mag at ready position. Come to find out that's common with old mag springs. I can hand rack all the other mags easily and they feed perfect. The two bad mags, no chance.

 

I am starting to wonder if all the bad Para reviews are not actually gun issues but bad mag spring issues (whether weak from factory or old) which can easily be fixed for $7.99 with an overpowered wolf mag spring. And after thinking, I have never had a glock that I didn't put an extra $7.99 in in some sort of aftermarket part or another. I love the gun, the platform, and especially the 12+1 .45. Worth it to try the 7.99 and then put a few 100rds that I have to waste my time shooting! Gosh, id have to actually spend time at the range test firing a weapon. Id rather be canning my favorite jam and watching the next season of bad housewifes of Miami at the jersey shore  :popcorn:  :slapfight: Just Kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 4, 2013 by Southern Christian Armed

[AMSting]

Now you're talking.  I would change out the mag springs on any used gun unless you knew they were pretty much unused.  I usually change them out anyway, no matter what.  I have also read Para mag springs were weak from the factory.  I have had two mags give me problems, and the rest have been fine.  They all have Wolff springs now and are working fine.

 

As for reliability, it will be as reliable as the Colt Officer, which was also hit or miss.  I have had two P12s and both have been perfect.  Mine were also the Canada/ Ft. Lauderdale ones, supposedly the worst for overall quality.  Watch your recoil spring as the short barrels are rough on them.  I think Wilson Combat says to change them out every 300 rounds!  I would look into an EGW full length guide rod and ISMI flat wire spring.  Those springs are rated for about 20000 rounds in an Officer.

[Guest Southern Christian Armed]

Now you're talking.  I would change out the mag springs on any used gun unless you knew they were pretty much unused.  I usually change them out anyway, no matter what.  I have also read Para mag springs were weak from the factory.  I have had two mags give me problems, and the rest have been fine.  They all have Wolff springs now and are working fine.

 

As for reliability, it will be as reliable as the Colt Officer, which was also hit or miss.  I have had two P12s and both have been perfect.  Mine were also the Canada/ Ft. Lauderdale ones, supposedly the worst for overall quality.  Watch your recoil spring as the short barrels are rough on them.  I think Wilson Combat says to change them out every 300 rounds!  I would look into an EGW full length guide rod and ISMI flat wire spring.  Those springs are rated for about 20000 rounds in an Officer.

 

Thanks. Can you point me in the direction of someone that sells the spring and rod you mention. I cant find anywhere to get them. One other question as I have found the items you listed is that the P12 has a notch where the cap fits in the bushing. How is this eliminated?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Southern Christian Armed

[AMSting]

Go to egwguns.com.  The officer's length guide rod comes with the reverse plug and ISMI flat spring.  You don't need to fill the notch as the plug uses the notch to align everything.   I didn't even need to fit anything.  It was a pure drop in.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I hope no one takes offense by this, well, too bad if you do, but most guns are just fine. They are usually finicky due to the person

behind the trigger, or the stuff like off brand mags, or the like. I wouldn't trade off a gun I have, and like, on the internet version of

advice. Too much room for error. I rather like Hipower's answer best, though, and I wasn't that Mark involved. :D

 

My Springfield HiCap 1911 is finicky and it uses Para brand P-14 mags, made by Mec Gar, best. Wonder what that's all about? j/k :D

[alwaysonjohn]

My P14 was finicky.  The guys at MidTnGunsmithing helped me out fixing it though (not to mention i shipped off to an idiot in West Arkansas to durakote that was a disaster so they had to sandblast the disaster off).  The two of them helped replace out almost every single part in the gun using ed brown internals.  The mags were eventually replaced with mec gar mags because of loading issues (the base plate had to be sanded a little so it would seat), the barrel was replaced with a storm lake threaded barrel (polishing the ramp didn't fix it alone, but i'm sure the new mags might have helped too), the guide rod was replaced with a SprinCo Recoil Managment spring/rod system (had to be fitted), the trigger replaced with an EGW trigger (made for the P14 and had to still be fitted), the main spring housing replaced with an Ed Brown chain link Main spring housing (had to be fitted), hogue grips, etc.  I'll post pictures to show you, but it ended up being one my favorite guns and 100% reliable.  14 rounds of 45 is a beautiful thing.

 

If I had to do it over again, I would probably sandblast the crap out of it, have someone cerakote in a single color I like (or two tone), and polish the internals. 

Edited December 6, 2013 by alwaysonjohn

[alwaysonjohn]

here are the pics

Original is on the left.  As you can see I didn't want a Rakkasan deployment gun.  My brother is 4th bgd and besides that its from an artillery division... no offense.  I wanted something more leo so i shipped it off to someone in west memphis who won't be named...

 

This is the nintendo disaster that returned in my mail after almost a year.  It was supposed to be a dark blue/black cerakote that ended up being this durakote nightmare.  Pretty much the guy painting it should have known that four coats on a "match gun" is a bad thing.  I will admit i was ignorant on the subject at the time too.  He shipped me back a gun that couldn't even get in battery and getting the duracoat off was imposible even with over $50 in solvents and scrubbing and soaking.  I almost threw it away till i spoke to Chris and Brandon at midtngunsmithing...

 

 

Final Is the top gun.  It is beautiful.... everyone asks me how much did it cost... the mainspring housing design puts it all together but you can't really see it.  The barrel was polished. It's now 100% reliable.  It has a good weight for a .45, plus one day i'll get a suppressor to match.  Thanks again Chris and Brandon at MidTNGunsmithing! And to think, I almost threw this beauty in the trash!  It's now a gun i would never sell.

Edited December 6, 2013 by alwaysonjohn

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Very nice looking result.