Brass...Once fired...Really?

[Sidewinder]

Being that I am in the process of looking for some .22 Hornet brass, I got to thinking. How do we really know that the Ziplock bag of "once fired" brass is "really" once fired brass? Maybe it's been fired once, and maybe it's been fired nine times! Who can tell, and how? Sure, if it's someone you've known a long time, or a gun shop you trust, you may feel a little better about it... but, there is probably a difference in feeling and knowing. Is there anyone on here that can positively identify a piece of brass as "once fired"? If so, how do you do it... how do you know for sure, and what do you look for? What are the indicators between once fored brass and seven times fired brass? It's kinda like a fired gun, isn't it? I can't tell if a gun has been fired six times, or sixty, or a hundred and sixty times. Once it's fired, it seems only the owner knows for sure. Just food for thought...what's your opinion?

[LngRngShtr]

extractor and or ejector marks 1 each per firing

 

marks made by feeding from a box type magazine 1 mark or 2 per feeding depending on magazine

 

guess if you have a known 1x fired you could go by case length growth

 

to be absolutely sure buy virgin or factory loaded brass and start your counter anything else is truly a guess

 

unless I am trying to eliminate all variables I really don't get to concerned about times fired vs. case prep prior to loading  which included a bent paperclip test for incipient separation if suspected.

 

lower pressure cartridges last forever vs. say a .303 that is known to stretch a fair amount each firing needing care to avoid case separation.

  

 Not sure where a Hornet would fit in but if it doesn't grow much between firings and you don't trim very often the once fired thing is more a mental hang up then a real issue affecting potential accuracy or case longevity

Edited December 2, 2013 by LngRngShtr

[Raoul]

Is this an existential question or are you concerned the brass might be past it's use by date?

[Luke E.]

Being that I am in the process of looking for some .22 Hornet brass, I got to thinking. How do we really know that the Ziplock bag of "once fired" brass is "really" once fired brass? Maybe it's been fired once, and maybe it's been fired nine times! Who can tell, and how? Sure, if it's someone you've known a long time, or a gun shop you trust, you may feel a little better about it... but, there is probably a difference in feeling and knowing. Is there anyone on here that can positively identify a piece of brass as "once fired"? If so, how do you do it... how do you know for sure, and what do you look for? What are the indicators between once fored brass and seven times fired brass? It's kinda like a fired gun, isn't it? I can't tell if a gun has been fired six times, or sixty, or a hundred and sixty times. Once it's fired, it seems only the owner knows for sure. Just food for thought...what's your opinion?

 

 Really the only ones I can tell on are rounds that had a primer crimp or the die around the primer but as for most non mil-surp you are just hoping.

 

How much ,22 Hornet brass are you in need of? I'm almost positive that I saw a whole bin of .22 Hornet brass at A&H reloading the other day. I have to go to Clarksville tomorrow to meet another TGO member and would be glad to pick some up for you when I come back through since we're both in Murfreesboro. Just let me know if you want me to grab some.

[Sidewinder]

extractor and or ejector marks 1 each per firing

 

marks made by feeding from a box type magazine 1 mark or 2 per feeding depending on magazine

 

guess if you have a known 1x fired you could go by case length growth

 

to be absolutely sure buy virgin or factory loaded brass and start your counter anything else is truly a guess

 

unless I am trying to eliminate all variables I really don't get to concerned about times fired vs. case prep prior to loading  which included a bent paperclip test for incipient separation if suspected.

 

lower pressure cartridges last forever vs. say a .303 that is known to stretch a fair amount each firing needing care to avoid case separation.

  

 Not sure where a Hornet would fit in but if it doesn't grow much between firings and you don't trim very often the once fired thing is more a mental hang up then a real issue affecting potential accuracy or case longevity

LngRngShtr, thanks for the information. I can see there would be pretty clear extractor/ejector marks if the ammo is being fired from a semiauto or bolt. But, I've got some once fired brass... I know because I shot it in my TC Contender, and it doesn't have a scratch on it. Not trying to be argumentative...just saying. I agree with you on the case prep...and I do a good inspection of each piece of brass prior to reloading. I load strictly according to the published data...and usually not the max. Thanks for your reply.

[Sidewinder]

Is this an existential question or are you concerned the brass might be past it's use by date?

Not really too concerned, as I inspect each piece of brass before loading it. I'm just curious as to what others use as a check to verify in their own mind that it truly is once fired brass. I guess most re-loaders have their little secrets for checking. I was just wondering what some of them were. I realize some of the information could be ambiguous. For instance, I guess a flattened or punctured primer could indicate a piece of brass that has been re-loaded so many times the primer pocket is worn/stretched and loose, or it could indicate that the re-loader loaded a real hot load. Just trying to learn all I can while enjoying re-loading. Thanks again.

[Sidewinder]

 Really the only ones I can tell on are rounds that had a primer crimp or the die around the primer but as for most non mil-surp you are just hoping.

 

How much ,22 Hornet brass are you in need of? I'm almost positive that I saw a whole bin of .22 Hornet brass at A&H reloading the other day. I have to go to Clarksville tomorrow to meet another TGO member and would be glad to pick some up for you when I come back through since we're both in Murfreesboro. Just let me know if you want me to grab some.

Luke E, thanks that's nice of you to offer to do that. Do you remember the price, and if it was virgin brass or used brass? I can buy new brass locally for about 31 cents a round, but don't want to pay that much for it. Some say frugal...others say cheap! I do enjoy lowering the per round cost, but I really like the tailoring the loads to fit the shooting situation...cheap for plinking, and spend more on my hunting loads.

 

I'm not sure if the TGO Monitors would consider this a transaction or not. I'm not a Benefactor, and wouldn't want to break any rules. I'm advertising for .22 Hornet ammo/brass on one of our other local gun sites, but haven't heard from anyone yet. Thanks for your reply.

[dlm37015]

in my use of 22 hornet I have had severali have 3 at this time .norma or rws brass is the best and chespest in the long run because every body elses splits on the 2nd or 3 reload some of mine have been loaded 10-11 times .I have also had better luck shooting cast bullets in most of mine .check your bore as well cause most of the older hornets have a 221 bore . they are great fun to load and shoot mine like ww680 powder best if you cant get any use aa1680 same powder

[Jonnin]

usually once fired is a loose description of brass that is mostly and *should be* once fired.   For example -- a range that does not allow reloads sells brass as once-fired, on the assumption that most of it is.   But a few reloads may be sneaked onto the place, etc.    Or a military source of 223 hulls, for example.    Or a shooter who does not reload but collected his once fired brass (here again, could pick up a stray if its a public range or something).  

 

So, mostly, its a good faith description that most of the brass is indeed once fired, though when talking every single piece, a few used pieces may slip in.   A lot (most? many?) of places will put in extra cases to counter any problems, such as an occasional non-brass case or a damaged case etc. 

Edited December 2, 2013 by Jonnin

[Luke E.]

Luke E, thanks that's nice of you to offer to do that. Do you remember the price, and if it was virgin brass or used brass? I can buy new brass locally for about 31 cents a round, but don't want to pay that much for it. Some say frugal...others say cheap! I do enjoy lowering the per round cost, but I really like the tailoring the loads to fit the shooting situation...cheap for plinking, and spend more on my hunting loads.

 

I'm not sure if the TGO Monitors would consider this a transaction or not. I'm not a Benefactor, and wouldn't want to break any rules. I'm advertising for .22 Hornet ammo/brass on one of our other local gun sites, but haven't heard from anyone yet. Thanks for your reply.

 

I don't remember the price but it was new. I've only been in there once because I was in the area killing some time. I was looking a specific powder that I cannot find anywhere and they had everything but that. Anyhow, I don't remember the price but I want to say it was primed. I forgot that they aren't open on Mondays so unless my trip gets put off until tomorrow I won't be there when they are open.

[GoneBallistic]

Probably doesn't apply to Hornet but with NATO ammo you can see if the primer is crimped or not. As far as I know, all military ammunition will have the primer crimped and to put in a new one you have to remove the crimp.

[Sidewinder]

I don't remember the price but it was new. I've only been in there once because I was in the area killing some time. I was looking a specific powder that I cannot find anywhere and they had everything but that. Anyhow, I don't remember the price but I want to say it was primed. I forgot that they aren't open on Mondays so unless my trip gets put off until tomorrow I won't be there when they are open.

Luke E, thanks for the update. I'll probably just buy ammo, as I find it, until I build up some re-loadable brass. Thanks again for the offer to pick some up for me though. That's awfully nice of you, and I appreciate it.

[Sidewinder]

Probably doesn't apply to Hornet but with NATO ammo you can see if the primer is crimped or not. As far as I know, all military ammunition will have the primer crimped and to put in a new one you have to remove the crimp.

GoneBallistic, actually the military did use .22 Hornet ammo...way back when... in their aircrew survival combo guns. These had a rifle barrel on top of a shotgun barrel. I believe there may also have been some that were bolt action with folding buttstocks. I'm thinking time frame was probably 50 - 60s.

[GoneBallistic]

GoneBallistic, actually the military did use .22 Hornet ammo...way back when... in their aircrew survival combo guns. These had a rifle barrel on top of a shotgun barrel. I believe there may also have been some that were bolt action with folding buttstocks. I'm thinking time frame was probably 50 - 60s.

Wow! I didn't know that. Learn something new every day! I bet they are a collector's item now!

[Luke E.]

Luke E, thanks for the update. I'll probably just buy ammo, as I find it, until I build up some re-loadable brass. Thanks again for the offer to pick some up for me though. That's awfully nice of you, and I appreciate it.

 

 Well good luck with getting yourself set up to load for it. My trip to Clarksville got postponed until tomorrow morning so I may stop by there and see if they have by chance gotten any of the powder in that I need. If the brass happens to be a good bit cheaper than what you have been seeing i'll post here.

[Sidewinder]

in my use of 22 hornet I have had severali have 3 at this time .norma or rws brass is the best and chespest in the long run because every body elses splits on the 2nd or 3 reload some of mine have been loaded 10-11 times .I have also had better luck shooting cast bullets in most of mine .check your bore as well cause most of the older hornets have a 221 bore . they are great fun to load and shoot mine like ww680 powder best if you cant get any use aa1680 same powder

Dlm37015, I appreciate the input. Interestingly, I noticed you didn't mention Lil' Gun. Also, I didn't know that some of the .22 Hornet barrels were .221 in the bore. Are you talking about the Thompson Center line of guns, or some other makes and models? Are your loads pretty hot, or back off of max a little bit? What is your favorite load? Thanks.

[jaysouth]

Call:

A-H Reloading- 615 835 3407


I was there today but was not looking for hornet brass. He had more powder than I have seen in a long, long time. Except the Red Dot that I wanted one pound of. He had a 4 pounder but that is multiple lifetime supply for me.

[Sidewinder]

Call:

A-H Reloading- 615 835 3407


I was there today but was not looking for hornet brass. He had more powder than I have seen in a long, long time. Except the Red Dot that I wanted one pound of. He had a 4 pounder but that is multiple lifetime supply for me.

Thanks Jaysouth, where are they located? The Reloader's Bench in Mt. Juliet has .22 Hornet in Privi Partisan for $30 per hundred, and The Outpost Armory has it for $31 per 100. I was hoping to find some cheaper, or be able to find a few boxes of factory loads, that I could re-load after I shoot them. I'll give them a call...thanks for the info.

[Luke E.]

A-H Reloading

1134 4th Ave. South

Nashville Tn. 37210

(615) 835-3407

 

Takes about 3minutes to get there from the 2nd/4th avenue exit off I40

Edited December 6, 2013 by Luke E.

[Sidewinder]

 

A-H Reloading

1134 4th Ave. South

Nashville Tn. 37210

(615) 835-3407

 

Takes about 3minutes to get there from the 2nd/4th avenue exit off I40

 

Thanks, I do go to Nashville ever now and then. I'll have to drop in and check them out.

[Luke E.]

Thanks, I do go to Nashville ever now and then. I'll have to drop in and check them out.

 

 I planned to stop by there on the way back from picking up my receivers up at D&T but traffic came to a dead stop about 1 mile before I got to where I could see downtown and I had to be back for dinner with my wife. I didn't get over 10 mph more than twice between the and Bell road on 24 but still stayed backed up all the way into LaVergne. I built in an extra 1 1/2 hrs to the trip so that I could stop by A&H and one other place and because of the traffic I didn't stop at either place and was only 10min early for dinner. 

[Sidewinder]

 I planned to stop by there on the way back from picking up my receivers up at D&T but traffic came to a dead stop about 1 mile before I got to where I could see downtown and I had to be back for dinner with my wife. I didn't get over 10 mph more than twice between the and Bell road on 24 but still stayed backed up all the way into LaVergne. I built in an extra 1 1/2 hrs to the trip so that I could stop by A&H and one other place and because of the traffic I didn't stop at either place and was only 10min early for dinner. 

Thanks for the effort anyway. Luke. The traffic is the reason I hate to do anything in Nashville. If I have to do any driving, I usually head up to The Reloader's Bench in Mt Juliet. Larry has some Privi Partisan  brass right now, but doesn't have the 45 gr SJHP bullets I need. I'll wait until he has both before I make the trip. What are others reading this paying for good bullets (not match), just hunting  bullets in 45gr semi jacketed hollow point...or soft point? Thanks.