Proposal to ban all 3D printed guns and parts

[Guest TankerHC]

I actually saw this last week on C-Span, the day it was proposed, Sessions was the only one to object to a 100% bipartisan vote (Unanimous constent) as proposed by Schumer but thats all it took to block it under the rules, of course. The Bill was up, without action or amendments the day after the announcement by the ATF that these guns could be classified as deadly weapons (They are guns).

 

Sessions is actually open to it, I wouldn't look to much into what goes on, on the floor, but what shows up as amendments to the Bill on the Congressional Website.  

 

 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/29/lawmakers-seek-fix-as-law-limiting-plastic-guns-set-to-expire/?intcmp=latestnews

Edited November 29, 2013 by TankerHC

[Ted S.]

Realistically, reliable guns/gun parts printed from an affordable 3-D printers is still some ways away as I see it. On top of that though, I don't see why it would be feasible for the government to enforce such laws because of the investment in technologies that would be able to trace CAD file downloads to source IP from proxies using fake foreign-IPs, especially when the (right) proxies shouldn't record the source IPs using them. Basically, CAD files for the parts could theoretically be downloaded and used to print guns almost untracibly if needed, even if the sources are blocked in this country. people just need to make sure the printer isn't connected to a network of anykind when they are printing said files....... Just don't use a computer with an OS or browser that has a backdoor(s)...

 

but I am getting into some things that are way over my own head that I am sure no law-abiding sheep...er...citizen will do, even when this do become financially feasible.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ted S.

[peejman]

Because making it illegal for businesses to invest in technology is just what the economy needs...

[DaveTN]

No new news really, this has little to do with 3D printing; plastic guns have been illegal illegal since 88.
I doubt it will have any impact on manufacturing unless someone wants to manufacture plastic guns. That would require a manufactures FFL if you want to sell them regardless of this legislation.
 

Basically, CAD files for the parts could theoretically be downloaded and used to print guns almost untracibly if needed, even if the sources are blocked in this country. people just need to make sure the printer isn't connected to a network of anykind when they are printing said files....... Just don't use a computer with an OS or browser that has a backdoor(s)...

Many of us here have the ability to create a CAD model of a gun without downloading anything. It would just be illegal to print it; we can however make it out of metal, they would work much better and be legal.

[mikegideon]

No new news really, this has little to do with 3D printing; plastic guns have been illegal illegal since 88.
I doubt it will have any impact on manufacturing unless someone wants to manufacture plastic guns. That would require a manufactures FFL if you want to sell them regardless of this legislation.
 
Many of us here have the ability to create a CAD model of a gun without downloading anything. It would just be illegal to print it; we can however make it out of metal, they would work much better and be legal.

 

The Liberator was legal if you put the metal piece in it. It was there specifically to make it detectable. Our politicians are fucking idiots.

[Ted S.]

Many of us here have the ability to create a CAD model of a gun without downloading anything. It would just be illegal to print it; we can however make it out of metal, they would work much better and be legal.

Awesome. I'm too lazy to learn how to create CAD models, so that is how I would do it if I were to do it. And I do agree about the metal printed guns being superior. I just doubt the 3-D printers that are made for printing/machining metal will ever be affordable... but hey, people are walking around with pocket computers/cameras/phones that can use the internet wirelessly within a terrestrial network, and I'm sure some idiot like me thought that back in the day that it would be impossible for people to have one so affordably....

[Guest TankerHC]

No new news really, this has little to do with 3D printing; plastic guns have been illegal illegal since 88.
I doubt it will have any impact on manufacturing unless someone wants to manufacture plastic guns. That would require a manufactures FFL if you want to sell them regardless of this legislation.
 
Many of us here have the ability to create a CAD model of a gun without downloading anything. It would just be illegal to print it; we can however make it out of metal, they would work much better and be legal.

 

The plastic gun laws have been in force since 88. This is new news, they are not banning plastic guns, the law, as changed, will ban guns manufactured by 3D printing, and if Schumer has his way, parts as well. 

[DaveTN]

The plastic gun laws have been in force since 88. This is new news, they are not banning plastic guns, the law, as changed, will ban guns manufactured by 3D printing, and if Schumer has his way, parts as well.

What’s the language? Because the Philly law says “unless that person possesses a license to manufacture firearms”.
I’m just trying to understand why anyone would think this is an issue that isn’t already in place.

[Guest TankerHC]

What’s the language? Because the Philly law says “unless that person possesses a license to manufacture firearms”.
I’m just trying to understand why anyone would think this is an issue that isn’t already in place.

 

The language is specific to any firearms made of plastic, any firearm or parts manufactured with a with a 3D printer. 

 

This has not been the law. The law is evolving for technology, NO ONE who is a 2A supporter, firearms enthusiast etc should ignore it. It is not the Bill, it is the Actions on the Bill and the Amendments to the Bill., The Bill already bans something that is just now becoming technologically feasible. Are Commericial manufacturers the only concern? The ATF stated, in their decision that these firearms may be classified as deadly weapons, and that Congress had seen the future.

 

Well lets see how much of the future they predict this time. 

Edited November 30, 2013 by TankerHC

[Guest TankerHC]

Had to go back and find this but just and FYI. This is PART OF whats being proposed.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/04/15/lawmaker-seeks-to-extend-3d-printed-gun-ban-bill-to-magazines-and-other-components/

 

From 5 days ago. The Amendments and Actions have not been posted except to show that Sessions blocked it.

 

Meantime, government sources say that Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont Democrat, is preparing to introduce a bill without a contentious provision in the Schumer-Nelson bill that bans plastic magazines. A committee spokeswoman declined to comment.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/13/no-moves-in-congress-on-3-d-gun-ban-renewal/

 

Lets keep ignoring it, because its BEEN THE LAW. 
 

Edited November 30, 2013 by TankerHC

[mikegideon]

Criminals are gonna do what they want. The dumber the law, the more criminals you're gonna have. Possession of marijuana comes to mind.

[Guest TankerHC]

Not many are standing up against this bill. If passed as Schumer proposes, plastic (Polymer) mags will be banned as will be certain other parts that are made of polymer. Hopefully it wont fly under the radar and be voted on by a bunch of progressives who know they already screwed their chances for re-election. 

[TripleDigitRide]

I've been hearing a lot of 3D printer commercials on 99.7 FM. If I'm not mistaken, the advertiser is NovaCopy. The ad is directed at parents, telling them what a great idea it is to buy their children a Cube 3D printer. A quick Google search indicates the basic model sells for roughly $1300. 

Edited November 30, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest TankerHC]

Makrbot has had them out in the 600-1200 range for about a year and a half, Printrbot has them out in the 3-400 dollar range. I considered one of the Printrbots but took the advice I got on here and wait until prices come down and glad I did, after they (The Printrbots) started getting in peoples hands and the reviews started coming out, they were not good. Basically a kit that could be assembled to print 3 square inch blocks, (sort of) animal shapes and a few other things.

[DaveTN]

Not many are standing up against this bill. If passed as Schumer proposes, plastic (Polymer) mags will be banned as will be certain other parts that are made of polymer. Hopefully it wont fly under the radar and be voted on by a bunch of progressives who know they already screwed their chances for re-election.

Sounds like Steve Israel just wants to tack on a capacity limit and possibly hamper production of parts that are already plastic injected molded. Many states have already said they will not comply with that.

I doubt the Federal government will be quick to restrict licensed firearms manufacturers from making anything solely based on the technology used to make it. If they did I doubt it would stand up in a court challenge.

All these Federal gun control law attempts have failed. The States are claiming their rights; I doubt this will be any different.

Of course I could be wrong.

[Guest TankerHC]

Sounds like Steve Israel just wants to tack on a capacity limit and possibly hamper production of parts that are already plastic injected molded. Many states have already said they will not comply with that.

I doubt the Federal government will be quick to restrict licensed firearms manufacturers from making anything solely based on the technology used to make it. If they did I doubt it would stand up in a court challenge.

All these Federal gun control law attempts have failed. The States are claiming their rights; I doubt this will be any different.

Of course I could be wrong.

 

Dave, I would agree with you if it were not for several issues.

 

First, this is an emerging technology. The Federal Government adds more and more restrictions. They slowly chip away at rights until they get what they want. For those not listening, 2 weeks ago Obama conducted an interview and specifically stated that Biden has not been taken off the mission for "More common sense gun control" but is working behind the scenes to get things done.

 

Second, currently, no state has reclaimed anything. Chicago's Federal Court decision only did one thing, force the State to ALLOW a law that was already Constitutionally protected. The only State I have seen do anything at all is Colorado, who recalled 2 State Senators, nothing from the other 16 States who's Constitution allows recalls. The third in Colorado wasnt recalled, Hudak stepped down so the Democrats could maintain control of the State Legislature. The Heller case accomplished absolutely nothing. That decision was a case brought against D.C, today in D.C it still takes up to (And in some cases longer) than 2 years for a citizen to even be allowed to purchase a handgun, about the only thing Heller did was re-enforce a decision that has been re-enforced half a dozen times already. I would like to know where these States are that are reclaiming anything. As far as MS and Constitutional Carry, that was in the works long before December 2012, I spoke for an hour with the man who wrote their Bill. Had nothing to do with losing anything or reclaiming anything. Where are these States that are reclaiming rights?

 

The current political situation is pretty clear, there is going to be a big turnover, a lot of those running know it, whether or not they vote for, no one can predict the future. They may not ban the mags, but when this law goes through it will be a new law (3D Printing) and there will be more Anti Firearm Legislation attached to it. The Heller, McDonald, Lewis, Verdugo and all the other 2A Supreme Court decisions make it clear, the Federal Government and the individual States have the right to ban whatever they deem neccesary with the exception of commonly used Firearms. Which is why their are California Compliant rifles and Handguns and bans on mag capacities in several other states. Because they can. Right now there is an easily identifiable number of Politicians who wont be coming back (But again, I cant predict the future and know no one who can), who probably would not care one way or the other, and will vote (See the Affordable Care Act Christmas Eve Fiasco) knowing they are probably already going to be held accountable for their actions and have nothing to lose anyway.

 

We just ignore these Political Actions at our own peril.

.

Edited November 30, 2013 by TankerHC

[Q-tip]

What good are undetectable plastic guns without undetectable plastic bullets?

[Guest TNSovereignty]

Criminals are gonna do what they want. The dumber the law, the more criminals you're gonna have. Possession of marijuana comes to mind.

Correct.  The gov't desires to purposefully criminalize folks who aren't 'progressive.'  I sincerely believe that if Schumer, et al, could put all of us 'criminals' in an American gulag, they'd do it in a heartbeat.  I commit crimes just about every day ... all of them 'crimes' because I'm exercising constitutional liberty.

 

Not many are standing up against this bill. If passed as Schumer proposes, plastic (Polymer) mags will be banned as will be certain other parts that are made of polymer. Hopefully it wont fly under the radar and be voted on by a bunch of progressives who know they already screwed their chances for re-election. 

With the improvements, expansion, and simplicity of 3D printing, how on earth will they be able to regulate the manufacture of parts that can be accomplished in one's basement with a few hundred dollars of equipment?   I agree w/ you that they want to ban it ... but could a ban be effective?  About as effective as banning nuclear weapons from Iran & Korea?  That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight the insanity, but seems to me the gov't ties itself into knots trying to regulate the unregulatable.

[Guest TankerHC]

Correct.  The gov't desires to purposefully criminalize folks who aren't 'progressive.'  I sincerely believe that if Schumer, et al, could put all of us 'criminals' in an American gulag, they'd do it in a heartbeat.  I commit crimes just about every day ... all of them 'crimes' because I'm exercising constitutional liberty.

 

With the improvements, expansion, and simplicity of 3D printing, how on earth will they be able to regulate the manufacture of parts that can be accomplished in one's basement with a few hundred dollars of equipment?   I agree w/ you that they want to ban it ... but could a ban be effective?  About as effective as banning nuclear weapons from Iran & Korea?  That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight the insanity, but seems to me the gov't ties itself into knots trying to regulate the unregulatable.

 

Easy, you answered the bottom question with the answer above. For one thing the new Bill is not a bill to ban plastic guns, it includes banning plastic components as well as 3D Printing of guns. In case anyone missed it, a complete metal 1911 was printed and fired only a couple of weeks ago. 3D Printing is not just about Polymers, its also about metals. Right now there is a proposal that would ban the manufacture of 3D Printed guns by anyone but licensed manufactures. I do believe the debate on many forums always ends up with "You can build a gun in your own home for private use, you just cant sell them". 

 

Also reading lots of editorials by tech writers claiming this is the same as making copyrighted  music and video illegal to download. Wrong, music and video downloads are not criminal and are settled 100% of the time in Civil Court with judgments. These are Felonies they are talking about, punishable by fines and Federal prison time. Not brought by a business in a Civil Court, but enforced by the Department of Justice.

 

It is certainly regulatable. The same way regulating full auto weapons is regulatable. Plenty of citizens have the machinery and means to turn a semi into full auto, but it is regulated, so to avoid lengthy stays behind bars they don't do it. A suppressor is nothing more than a pipe with a baffle. Yet look at the hoops people jump through to own one. Absolutely this can be regulated.

 

On a similar but side note, two major pieces of anti gun legislation that were apparently forgotten about since we "won" the gun battle on the Senate floor several months ago were not tabled in Committee and just two weeks ago were referred to subcommittee. H.Res.318 and H.R. 2665. From subcommittee it is a short few steps to go back to the floor and head back to the House. Wait until the November Elections, labeling a Progressive as a Republican or Democrat does not change the fact they are Progressives (Socialists), if there are enough outgoing Congresspeople, see if they don't push through a Bill or two or three before January. 

 

I know, before someone replies, never happen, because we won and they are scared. Same thing I heard about Colorado, gun confiscation in New York and California (They wouldnt go there because then they would be pushing the law on the 2A).

 

I say stay vigilant. It is the people who would brush off proposed legislation that will "never happen" that have been wrong time and time again. Which is also why at the moment, we do not live i a Representative Republic, no matter how much someone wants to believe we are. We will know in November if we are still a Republic, and I have said it 100 times and will say it again, if we stick to our historical voting record and re-elect 80% of the people, including a LOT on the right who said back in January that we need "common sense gun legislation", then we are pretty much done for. 

[gregintenn]

LOL! If I weren't so lazy, I could make a working gun with a set of files, hand drill, basic hand tools, and bar stock. Mike is correct; our politicians are idiots.

Edited November 30, 2013 by gregintenn

[mikegideon]

If I was dead set on perforating somebody, I would find a way. Folks were doing it way before gun powder came along.